Why Are Dominicans So Apathetic?

[Softail]

If you think the DR is in need of change, YOU change it. Why are you looking at people in Washington D.C. for change in Santo Domingo.

I would say the only real change ANY of us can affect is the change within ourselves...our thinking and our consciousness. Change who you are and everything you see changes.

I'm almost 65, American, and have lived through a string of some singularly bad presidents (2 terms of Bush, my god) and know that any happiness, peace, and joy I find in my life must come from within, not by relying on any politician.

 

[playacaribe2]

While 63% of the people polled by Penn, Schoen & Berland (poll #1 carried out by this outfit)




say the country is not headed in the right direction, 52% are satisfied with the Government?s efforts, a contradiction likely stemming from the current campaign leading to the May presidential elections.




The poll conducted for the media Group SIN (poll #2 by Grupo SIN NOT carried out by Penn, Schoen & Berland)



also found a contradiction on what many say on government corruption, with a mere 6% calling it a pressing problem.
For 26% of the Dominicans asked, inflation and the cost of living are the most important problems; 24% said crime;18% mentioned unemployment, 8% cited deficient education and for a mere 6% it?s government corruption, with drugs and the blackouts tied at 4%.
The survey also found that 74% say the Dominican economy is also not headed in the right direction, but 33% feel the opposite.



Read first!!!

Sit down and relax Pichardo...you are seeing double. Making the fonts larger does not make you correct. Nor does interjecting new statements that are not in your cited article make you right.

But I will give you credit, you do love to spin.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

 

[bienvenido]

unfortunately is true. I'm Dominican and I feel the same way.

 

[bienvenido]

true true true....and nothing but the true so help me God

 

[JaraChica]

I read something online once that said that parasites cause lethargy. ??????????

 

[pollogringo]

1. Fatalism
2. The hot hot sun

 

[malko]

just came across this thread right now. I ve read a couple of posts.
Just yesreday disscussing with my wife about voyage to mars article on bbc, while drinking coffee in in laws mecasina....One of our sobrina, who is 23 years ago, studies in university to become a geography teacher, said like but whats mars? Explain solar system to everyone, galaxy, universe, simple words, my 7 year old sobrino can understand. La sobrina is thinking ( u can always tell when they are thinking, although very rare....) and she says: " but ure wrong, its the sun that turns around the earth",
I m like ure kiddin g right? but no she is dead serious. The whole family then starts with their 2 pesos worth:
are there any colmados on mars? ( I mean, u would think they are alll high on e or something), how much does a plane ticket cost? all zhis is true!!!! I had to leave, I thought I was going to wet my pants and didint want to make fun of them.....

The ansewer is education, general knowledge especially reading books ( the only dominican I ve seen reading a book is my wife and she only reads " deseo" stuff). They dont know any betterand that is the reason they seem apathic.

But wait for the new generation who have access to internet, global information, etc...... The baril of powder is just sitting their waiting for a spark.....

 

[Aguaita29]

Some of the reasons why most of us are apathetic towards corruption are the same reasons why gringos become apathetic once they`ve been living here for a while. Notice how a proud and law abiding citizen (back home) often comes here to boast and brag about how they have bribed someone, how they used tigueraje to get away with something. They also ask questions to try to do illegal stuff or get away with whatever they can.

They think they are justified because everybody else does it, and the fact that they are applauded and praised by their gringo peers for doing these things just fuels their behavior. Well, guess what? That`s the same thing that happens to locals: You are praised for tigeraje, not for doing the right thing!

In the DR, doing the right thing doesn`t pay off. It will get you mocked and, sometimes, even blacklisted!

Many times foreigners complain on how frustrated they are that they tried to make a difference about something but they couldn`t. They think they couldn`t change things because they are foreign and that it could have been different if they were a Dominican, because Dominicans stick together. This couldn`t be further from the truth!

Someone posted once that the DR is a country of followers, and that`s partially true. People will follow, but only as long as there is some sort of personal gain in the horizon for them.

Wether you are Dominican or foreign, people will not follow you if this will affect their livelihood,business or if this will put them against someone who could do favors for them. Even those who agree with your cause, will tell you, IN PRIVATE, that you are sooo right, but they wouldn`t dare to repeat that in front of a big shot politician who could get favors for them.

Remember those Disney movie type endings in which a single man stands up alone against a corporation and other people, one by one, end up following him? In the DR, unless this man has a truck of jumbo bags to give away, he will be left standing alone with the sound of crickets in the background!

 

[the gorgon]

You grow up with it ingrained in you that "Hey if you can get into power you'd be a fool not to take advantage of it". They don't know any other way, never seen anything different so it's normal. For instance this idea that if MY party wins then all the government resources are OURS and we should fire everyone who doesn't belong to the winning party and all the jobs should only be given to "Companeros" be it Peledeistas or Perredeistas is seen as normal.

If you tell anyone that this is wrong, that the government resources belong to EVERYONE and jobs shouldn't have anything to do with what party the person belongs to they look at you like you're crazy...and this is not just the poor, uneducated who thinks this way. I've had loooong discussions about this with friends who master degrees or are Lawyers and Doctors and they still cannot even fathom it being any different.

The other reasons of course is that as you know Dominicans grow up with the concept of "Tigueraje" ingrained into us. It is celebrated since you're a baby and you're encouraged to be a "Tiguere" and not be a "Pariguayo". Haven't you heard people say about a kid "Wow ese va a ser un tiguere!!!" when the kid does something cute/smart. So in the minds of Dominicans these politicians are not thieves per se, they're just "Tigueres" who were smart enough to get their share of the spoils and of course any politician who turns out to be honest is considered a pariguayo for not taking advantage when he/she had the chance.

Lastly the other reason is because in the back of every Dominican's mind they think THEY may get THEIR turn at the trough some day. This is also the reason why no newly sworn government indicts anybody from the outgoing party, because it's like "Hey now you owe me one...just in case you're back in power one day..."

It would take a seismic shift for this to change. Unfortunately I don't see anyone in the horizon that will take this on in earnest. They will all pay lip service (Just like Leonel has), but no real action.

suarezn, after reading your post, i need not add anything. you summed it all up. it is all a matter of taking turns. they are prepared to suffer today, since maybe tomorrow their guys will win, and Fausto the analfabeto will get the job as a consular attache that he always coveted.

 

[bluemoonnyc]

not to mention one term of Jimmy "The Clown" Carter and two terms of clueless Obama,,, they're all a bunch of boobs,, except for Reagan, he was good and he came at the right time

I would say the only real change ANY of us can affect is the change within ourselves...our thinking and our consciousness. Change who you are and everything you see changes.

I'm almost 65, American, and have lived through a string of some singularly bad presidents (2 terms of Bush, my god) and know that any happiness, peace, and joy I find in my life must come from within, not by relying on any politician.

 

[the gorgon]

Some of the reasons why most of us are apathetic towards corruption are the same reasons why gringos become apathetic once they`ve been living here for a while. Notice how a proud and law abiding citizen (back home) often comes here to boast and brag about how they have bribed someone, how they used tigueraje to get away with something. They also ask questions to try to do illegal stuff or get away with whatever they can.

They think they are justified because everybody else does it, and the fact that they are applauded and praised by their gringo peers for doing these things just fuels their behavior. Well, guess what? That`s the same thing that happens to locals: You are praised for tigeraje, not for doing the right thing!

In the DR, doing the right thing doesn`t pay off. It will get you mocked and, sometimes, even blacklisted!

Many times foreigners complain on how frustrated they are that they tried to make a difference about something but they couldn`t. They think they couldn`t change things because they are foreign and that it could have been different if they were a Dominican, because Dominicans stick together. This couldn`t be further from the truth!

Someone posted once that the DR is a country of followers, and that`s partially true. People will follow, but only as long as there is some sort of personal gain in the horizon for them.

Wether you are Dominican or foreign, people will not follow you if this will affect their livelihood,business or if this will put them against someone who could do favors for them. Even those who agree with your cause, will tell you, IN PRIVATE, that you are sooo right, but they wouldn`t dare to repeat that in front of a big shot politician who could get favors for them.

Remember those Disney movie type endings in which a single man stands up alone against a corporation and other people, one by one, end up following him? In the DR, unless this man has a truck of jumbo bags to give away, he will be left standing alone with the sound of crickets in the background!

i like the little part in your posting about Dominicans sticking together. just last Monday, this lady i know called me, and asked me to help her with some money, because they had turned off her lights. i told her i could only spare 500 pesos, and that it was not something i intended to do on a regular basis. i told her to get on a motoconcho, and come to my apartment, as i had no intentions of leaving home that day.

so, she shows up on the concho, and i hand the guy 25 pesos. he starts demanding 50, because he has now heard my way of speaking, and realizes i am a foreigner, therefore the obligatory swindle has to be expedited. i told him not to confuse me with some guy who just got off Thomas Cook last night, and that i have been visiting the DR since the days of Balaguer, and that i live here, permanently.

well, what do you think happened? you guessed it!! the same woman to whom i was extending the hand of kindness started taking sides with the concho! i am making a virtual gift of 500 pesos to her, since repayment of debt is an act unheard of here. yet she is trying to help the guy beat me out of 25 pesos. talk about sticking together! i momentarily entertained the thought of giving the motoconcho 100 pesos for the round trip, and telling the woman to go pee up a rope.

 

[Lando calrisian]

Jimmy The clown, promoted conservationism, true green energy projects, projects to wean the USA away from Arab oil. He respected Unions. He supported civil rights and actually truly respected civil rights. He got the Israelis and the arabs to forge peace at camp David. He attempted to deal PEACEFULLY with other countries. He knew that if we invaded Iran, it would be worse than Vietnam. Look at the Fedayeen in Iraq and Talibs in Afghanistan. They are not just killing, maiming our soldiers our tax dollars have been gobbled up and disappeared in the sands of the middle east brother.
Reagan started the whole stupid and neverending WAR on Drugs. infringing on our constitutional rights
Reagan was the butcher of Central America. He funded the contras and many other nasty little groups, no respect for human rights.
He cooperated with terrorists by accepting money from the Iranians to pay for the Contra's weapons.
He cooperated with terrorists by helping the mujahedeen in Afghanistan, to defeat the soviets. Then these same "freedom fighters" went on to help out those really nice boys in Al Qaeda.
The destabilization of Yugoslavia was initiated and the disaster that followed began then.
The much heralded defeat of communism brought about civil wars, famines, instability and untold destruction was brought about by the uncontrolled arms race, STAR WARS, NUCLEAR THIS, COUNTER INSURGENCY THAT.
All that military might COSTS MONEY!! If it strangled the Soviets, imagine what it did to us, BLUE!!???
He fired the Air Traffic controllers, breaking the backs of Unions. Now Business knew that the Govt. didn't give a frak about the people and deregulation came about.
After deregulation, the exporting of JOBS away from America.
The war on poverty was declared a failure and poor people sank even further into poverty.
Kids in America got waaaaay dumber, trust me I know I was in school back in those days up in Newark.
Why did Bush have to raise taxes after famously saying "read my effennn lips (I added effenn) NO MORE TAXES"
Why did he have to go back on that pledge, or just blantantly lie to we the people? Because your holy saint of a freakin doofus RAYGUN!!!!!!!
Reagan spent us way out of the KEISTER.
STOP celebrating the illusion, a fantasy of a FAKE glory.
Regarding Human Rights
Constitutional Rights.
The economy
foreign policy, come on now, REAL foreign policy. (Not USA bullying)
Carter was much, much better than Reagan.
Reagan talked nice, looked nice and had movie star good looks but that's IT. His substance was poor, poor, poor.
And now, so are we.
So yeah the saying was back in those halcyon days, "It's morning in America"
Then the American people went to sleep.
We're starting to wake up baby and it ain't pretty.

 

[the gorgon]

not to mention one term of Jimmy "The Clown" Carter and two terms of clueless Obama,,, they're all a bunch of boobs,, except for Reagan, he was good and he came at the right time

how about a list of his great achievements, bluemoon?

 

[bluemoonnyc]

this is not DR thread, not a USA thread, so I will leave it at that..

 

[Lando calrisian]

I will even tie in the whole Jimmy "the Great" versus Reagan "who ain't" rant that I gave. Jimmy supported fair elections in DR, Silvestre Guzman came into power because the usual alphabet soup of USA agencies didn't interfere in a negative way that time around. USAID, CIA, PCI, they stayed out of the way and the Dominican Armed forces got the message. Balaguer saw the writing on the wall and allowed the votes to be counted.
If fair play and freedom, justice, liberty and a true free market were allowed. Instead of all the savage corporate capitalism that was introduced the Raygun's period then the DR would be a much more decent place. We have our own faults and sins committed but we also didn't need anybody helping us along. I remember when Salvador Jorge Blanco would go begging with his hat out to Washington and get that big dumb smile from the gipper with the assorted pat on that back.
Gimmie a break

 

[Lando calrisian]

Oh Gorgon, I got so carried away. I forgot to tell you how much I laughed reading your story. I get hit up for money all the time. The nerve of some people and somehow you just know it's coming when they show up, you can read it in their face. That's why this Dominican is apathetic. Gotta get back to the point thread, right?

 

[Aguaita29]

i like the little part in your posting about Dominicans sticking together. just last Monday, this lady i know called me, and asked me to help her with some money, because they had turned off her lights. i told her i could only spare 500 pesos, and that it was not something i intended to do on a regular basis. i told her to get on a motoconcho, and come to my apartment, as i had no intentions of leaving home that day.

so, she shows up on the concho, and i hand the guy 25 pesos. he starts demanding 50, because he has now heard my way of speaking, and realizes i am a foreigner, therefore the obligatory swindle has to be expedited. i told him not to confuse me with some guy who just got off Thomas Cook last night, and that i have been visiting the DR since the days of Balaguer, and that i live here, permanently.

well, what do you think happened? you guessed it!! the same woman to whom i was extending the hand of kindness started taking sides with the concho! i am making a virtual gift of 500 pesos to her, since repayment of debt is an act unheard of here. yet she is trying to help the guy beat me out of 25 pesos. talk about sticking together! i momentarily entertained the thought of giving the motoconcho 100 pesos for the round trip, and telling the woman to go pee up a rope.

Imagine you are a Dominican working abroad or you are working locally with a group of both Dominicans and foreigners. Do you know who is more likely to screw you or give you a hard time? YOUR FELLOW DOMINICAN!!!

About your story, You can`t help the woman with cash AND pay her motoconcho. That has pariguayo written all over it. Remember, that the more the people get from you, the more they`ll expect, and the more they are likely to think that you don`t thave a problem with giving away stuff or cash.
By the way, did you consider the bond that there could already be between her and her motoconcho?A lot of people have a favorite concho guy!

 

[bronzeallspice]

Imagine you are a Dominican working abroad or you are working locally with a group of both Dominicans and foreigners. Do you know who is more likely to screw you or give you a hard time? YOUR FELLOW DOMINICAN!!!

About your story, You can`t help the woman with cash AND pay her motoconcho. That has pariguayo written all over it. Remember, that the more the people get from you, the more they`ll expect, and the more they are likely to think that you don`t thave a problem with giving away stuff or cash.
By the way, did you consider the bond that there could already be between her and her motoconcho?A lot of people have a favorite concho guy!

I would've given her the 500 pesos and told her to pay the motoconcho. See how quickly it would've
changed from 50 pesos to 25.

 

[the gorgon]

Imagine you are a Dominican working abroad or you are working locally with a group of both Dominicans and foreigners. Do you know who is more likely to screw you or give you a hard time? YOUR FELLOW DOMINICAN!!!

About your story, You can`t help the woman with cash AND pay her motoconcho. That has pariguayo written all over it. Remember, that the more the people get from you, the more they`ll expect, and the more they are likely to think that you don`t thave a problem with giving away stuff or cash.
By the way, did you consider the bond that there could already be between her and her motoconcho?A lot of people have a favorite concho guy!

Agauiata., everything you said hit me right after the episode ended. there is only one positive. i retain the right to say no next time, and there will be a next. people like those are always in need. then i will exercise that right, to the fullest. sadly, Dominicans (the rank and file) mistake kindness for weakness. heck, the motoconcho guy might have been a relative. now, for 25 pesos, she has severed the link to a possible future lifeline.

 

[the gorgon]

I would've given her the 500 pesos and told her to pay the motoconcho. See how quickly it would've
changed from 50 pesos to 25.

either that, or zero. maybe the darn guy is her marido; who knows?