- Thread starter Robert
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Why are so many expats clueless?
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The DR is the 9th country that I've lived in as an ex-pat since 1976, many of them in the 'developing?' world and this cluelessness is not unique to the DR but these days we have such fora as this where many opinions can be mooted which naturally opens the door to a more public outpouring of frustration and bewilderment.
I have, however noticed over the years of my wanderings, that the francophone community tends to cope far better than the anglos when it comes to adapting and making the best of things. I have no idea why this should be but I must admit that for US citizens, their first venture into a non-US culture must be pretty traumatic.
They suddenly discover that not everyone thinks,eats, acts, speaks and reacts in a manner which is expected, which is, of course, unusual in the US, and that for persons who have grown up expecting so much and so quickly it must be a shock indeed and leaves them dreaming of 3 minute hamburgers, American beer and what they call 'Football'.
Fortunately for them, this is now available here.
The German community seem to cope very well also as they discover that all those things that they thought were important are suddenly in a different priority level and many of them react quite dangerously to this new-found freedom.
Brits are, as usual, Brits. Dressing badly, finding the cheapest beer,complaining about the loss of empire and everything else and imagining England as it was in the halcyon days of glory.
The French and Belgians etc. just cook great food with local produce, go to the market themselves, learn the language and customs, complain about French/Belgian politics and tell everyone that they don't want to go back to Europe.
I remember one General in Zaire (DRC today) lining up his contract mundeli (european) technicians and addressing them such:
"You mundeli come here and for one year you work like a mundeli.
After one year you work like a Zairois!
After two years,-You are worse than the Zairois!!"
Splendid!
Maybe it's just a question of how long you've been out of the comfort zone?
I have, however noticed over the years of my wanderings, that the francophone community tends to cope far better than the anglos when it comes to adapting and making the best of things. I have no idea why this should be but I must admit that for US citizens, their first venture into a non-US culture must be pretty traumatic.
They suddenly discover that not everyone thinks,eats, acts, speaks and reacts in a manner which is expected, which is, of course, unusual in the US, and that for persons who have grown up expecting so much and so quickly it must be a shock indeed and leaves them dreaming of 3 minute hamburgers, American beer and what they call 'Football'.
Fortunately for them, this is now available here.
The German community seem to cope very well also as they discover that all those things that they thought were important are suddenly in a different priority level and many of them react quite dangerously to this new-found freedom.
Brits are, as usual, Brits. Dressing badly, finding the cheapest beer,complaining about the loss of empire and everything else and imagining England as it was in the halcyon days of glory.
The French and Belgians etc. just cook great food with local produce, go to the market themselves, learn the language and customs, complain about French/Belgian politics and tell everyone that they don't want to go back to Europe.
I remember one General in Zaire (DRC today) lining up his contract mundeli (european) technicians and addressing them such:
"You mundeli come here and for one year you work like a mundeli.
After one year you work like a Zairois!
After two years,-You are worse than the Zairois!!"
Splendid!
Maybe it's just a question of how long you've been out of the comfort zone?
What I love is all the posts from everyone that knows the answers and whys.
C.C. knows what he is talking about.
minerva was great.
As well as a few others.
Some still need a lot of time and finding WHAT they are looking for.
Catcherintherye will NEVER get it along with a few others. (day ONE experts that knew it all from vacations. And nasty about it.) OK. I'm done with that little rant.
As most threads, the point is made and is done. The rest is not needed.
C.C. knows what he is talking about.
minerva was great.
As well as a few others.
Some still need a lot of time and finding WHAT they are looking for.
Catcherintherye will NEVER get it along with a few others. (day ONE experts that knew it all from vacations. And nasty about it.) OK. I'm done with that little rant.
As most threads, the point is made and is done. The rest is not needed.
Expat Misconceptions continued...
11.) Dominicans don't know nothing about nothing! Wait...your Dominican car runs on what? kerosene and vegatable oil?
12.) Dominicans are wasteful, stupid people! Wait...are you sure you can fix my flat tire using only epoxy, used condoms, and the flame from a candle?
13.) Dominicans are slow, simple people! Wait...is it true that Dominicans have virtually no hypertension, little high blood pressure, and very little work related anxiety and stress related issues like Americans?
14.) Dominicans lack imagination and creativity! Wait.. did you just build a house out of cinder block, driftwood, corrugated steel, and cardboard?
15.) Dominicans don't know how to make money! Wait a minute... this is the third time this week that i brought my car, motorcycle, tv, and broken vibrator in for repair, and now you're telling me that i owe you another $1000 pesos, again?
16.) Dominicans have no work ethic! Wait...did i just see a woman selling fruit from atop of her head, a guy selling children's clothes from a bicycle, a shoe shine boy shining a person's bare feet, a guy squeezing fresh cane sugar and orange juice at a busy intersection, a motorcyclist delivering water, gas tanks, and pico pollo from the back of a bike?
17.) Domincans lack ingenuity! Wait...did i just see a guy building a house--pulling 12ft steel rebar behind his 50cc scooter, hauling cinder blocks on another scooter, delivering furniture--including glass, dressers, washing machines, stoves, and car chassis, and then transporting a family of ten---all from a scooter? is that really possible?
18.) Domincans don't know how to use tools! Wait..did i just see a girl opening a can of tuna using a butter knife, cutting driftwood up to build a house, tilling 10 acres of land using nothing more than a machete, cutting grass in his yard using another machete?
19.) Dominicans don't understand basic mechanics! Wait a second...did i just see a guy take a voltage regulator/rectifier out of a motorcycle and then modify it to fit inside his car, attach a Greco coffee filter to the inside of the gas tank of a diesel truck to filter the fuel, modify the engine to burn natural gas, used vegetable oil, and kerosene?
20.) Dominicans are too stupid to understand the dynamics of business and human relations! Wait...did i just buy another cellphone for my girlfriend, a different set of extended hair, another scooter, and donated more money for her ailing donkey that ran off, again?
This is absloute madness! Wait...i must be in the Dominican Republic.
11.) Dominicans don't know nothing about nothing! Wait...your Dominican car runs on what? kerosene and vegatable oil?
12.) Dominicans are wasteful, stupid people! Wait...are you sure you can fix my flat tire using only epoxy, used condoms, and the flame from a candle?
13.) Dominicans are slow, simple people! Wait...is it true that Dominicans have virtually no hypertension, little high blood pressure, and very little work related anxiety and stress related issues like Americans?
14.) Dominicans lack imagination and creativity! Wait.. did you just build a house out of cinder block, driftwood, corrugated steel, and cardboard?
15.) Dominicans don't know how to make money! Wait a minute... this is the third time this week that i brought my car, motorcycle, tv, and broken vibrator in for repair, and now you're telling me that i owe you another $1000 pesos, again?
16.) Dominicans have no work ethic! Wait...did i just see a woman selling fruit from atop of her head, a guy selling children's clothes from a bicycle, a shoe shine boy shining a person's bare feet, a guy squeezing fresh cane sugar and orange juice at a busy intersection, a motorcyclist delivering water, gas tanks, and pico pollo from the back of a bike?
17.) Domincans lack ingenuity! Wait...did i just see a guy building a house--pulling 12ft steel rebar behind his 50cc scooter, hauling cinder blocks on another scooter, delivering furniture--including glass, dressers, washing machines, stoves, and car chassis, and then transporting a family of ten---all from a scooter? is that really possible?
18.) Domincans don't know how to use tools! Wait..did i just see a girl opening a can of tuna using a butter knife, cutting driftwood up to build a house, tilling 10 acres of land using nothing more than a machete, cutting grass in his yard using another machete?
19.) Dominicans don't understand basic mechanics! Wait a second...did i just see a guy take a voltage regulator/rectifier out of a motorcycle and then modify it to fit inside his car, attach a Greco coffee filter to the inside of the gas tank of a diesel truck to filter the fuel, modify the engine to burn natural gas, used vegetable oil, and kerosene?
20.) Dominicans are too stupid to understand the dynamics of business and human relations! Wait...did i just buy another cellphone for my girlfriend, a different set of extended hair, another scooter, and donated more money for her ailing donkey that ran off, again?
This is absloute madness! Wait...i must be in the Dominican Republic.
Some expats are the same and are present all over the world. But, hey, there are the others who managed to learn and blend in and those should be thanked because they embraced a nation, a culture and its people.
The Dominican culture is totally upside down for one who has lived their life in the US. It is normal to use the values you grew up with even though you are in a different geographical location. Using US values in the DR will make your life a train wreck.
Many expats do not take the time to understand the complex cultural differences and fall for the common misperceptions listed in many posts. People want a reason for behaviors and when that reason fall outside their experiences and culture they will make up reasons that fit. After a few years the Dominican culture makes sense to me most of the time. I was lucky and had a wonderful Dominican wife who kept me from many foolish expat mistakes.
Many expats do not take the time to understand the complex cultural differences and fall for the common misperceptions listed in many posts. People want a reason for behaviors and when that reason fall outside their experiences and culture they will make up reasons that fit. After a few years the Dominican culture makes sense to me most of the time. I was lucky and had a wonderful Dominican wife who kept me from many foolish expat mistakes.
The answer to this thread is simple...ignorance knows no nationality, religion, ethnicity, or creed.
I hate to rain on your parade Frank, because you are on a roll, but #13 Hypertension is a huge problem for Dominicans, as is diabetes. Carry on.
I think it?s PERCEIVED hypertension AKA La Pression.
Everyone seems to have it as it sounds like a good ailment to cover all bases. Dominicans are the largest bunch of hypochondriacs I know!
I suppose that you could also ask the question as to why do these clueless ex-pats insist on being friends?
There are some expats here that seem to think that because we share the same mother tongue or nationality that automatically makes them eligible to be my friend.
I wouldn't associate myself with these losers in my home country, so why should I do so here? I have a small circle of friends which I am very happy with. None of them ask me for outrageous favours or money. None of us need expats as integral parts of our businesses. We are simply friends that enjoy each others' company every now and then.
I have integrated in Dominican society as far as I want, but I will never be a Dominican, nor do I want to be.
There are some expats here that seem to think that because we share the same mother tongue or nationality that automatically makes them eligible to be my friend.
I wouldn't associate myself with these losers in my home country, so why should I do so here? I have a small circle of friends which I am very happy with. None of them ask me for outrageous favours or money. None of us need expats as integral parts of our businesses. We are simply friends that enjoy each others' company every now and then.
I have integrated in Dominican society as far as I want, but I will never be a Dominican, nor do I want to be.
I do believe CC had it right when he said emigrating to a country is a learning curve. Basically I agree with the 3 steps he mentioned.
When I recall my own time here, there was the first stage of "vacation" or "wow" feeling, not really minding I did not speak Spanish. Everything was great, much better than in Belgium, and I enjoyed every minute of it. The second stage was one of some frustration. My lack of Spanish caused a lot of headaches (some problems at the house not being fixed the way I wanted, not being able to ask what I wanted at the local supermercado...) or in general, being too dependent on other people. Presently I am in the 3th stage. I can express myself in Spanish (mind you, not without a lot of grammatical errors, but improving every day), I can read and understand 95% of the local lingo, I can negotiate, I know how the locals think and know how to adapt myself to certain situations. I have some expat-friends, I have some Dominican friends with the right connections (in STI, SD, Jarabacoa and on the NC), and I have Dominican friends who some of you would consider to be unworthy because they are not rich.
Just like Robert, I am clueless on one point. When will people on this board realize this board is cyber-world. People on this board and every other board in the world, with their nicks, can and are presenting themselves completely different from what they are for real.
I know for a fact that some of the so-called, and much respected "experts" on this board. are completely different in real life, once you get to know them better.
Some of those posters, who claim they are completely accepted by the higher Dominican society, do not speak a single word of Spanish. They do not dare to adventure into a local supermercado, without their local girlfriend, as they are afraid of the locals, and do not understand a word of what the cashier says. They claim to have one or more successful businesses over here, while in reality they are just fronts of the scams they are trying to pull. The businesses are failing, but they are in the name of their local girlfriend, so what do they care? They will get the money.
I have said it, once, twice, trice, and many more times. You cannot judge people by their bank-account, their education, their nationality, their supposedly statue in the local community, and their behavior. You will have to judge them according to your own standards of morality.
Having said all of this, still being a newbie with only 2 1/2 years of living here, but with the experience of having lived in several diiferent cultures for over 20 years, I can only formulate the following conclusions...
- life in the DR is far from paradise, but then again, it beats the hell out of living in Belgium. I go back once a year for business, and I am always happy when that one week is behind me. As long as that happens I know I am living in the right country.
- While living here I have been screwed twice. Once by a rich Dominican, who still owes me a couple of thousand of dollars... who I have to beg and threaten every couple of months, but who pays me in installments, and who I still am capable of calling a friend. Whenever I need a favor, he is there, big time. And once by an expat, and poster on this board. No further comment.
Just my 2 cents...
When I recall my own time here, there was the first stage of "vacation" or "wow" feeling, not really minding I did not speak Spanish. Everything was great, much better than in Belgium, and I enjoyed every minute of it. The second stage was one of some frustration. My lack of Spanish caused a lot of headaches (some problems at the house not being fixed the way I wanted, not being able to ask what I wanted at the local supermercado...) or in general, being too dependent on other people. Presently I am in the 3th stage. I can express myself in Spanish (mind you, not without a lot of grammatical errors, but improving every day), I can read and understand 95% of the local lingo, I can negotiate, I know how the locals think and know how to adapt myself to certain situations. I have some expat-friends, I have some Dominican friends with the right connections (in STI, SD, Jarabacoa and on the NC), and I have Dominican friends who some of you would consider to be unworthy because they are not rich.
Just like Robert, I am clueless on one point. When will people on this board realize this board is cyber-world. People on this board and every other board in the world, with their nicks, can and are presenting themselves completely different from what they are for real.
I know for a fact that some of the so-called, and much respected "experts" on this board. are completely different in real life, once you get to know them better.
Some of those posters, who claim they are completely accepted by the higher Dominican society, do not speak a single word of Spanish. They do not dare to adventure into a local supermercado, without their local girlfriend, as they are afraid of the locals, and do not understand a word of what the cashier says. They claim to have one or more successful businesses over here, while in reality they are just fronts of the scams they are trying to pull. The businesses are failing, but they are in the name of their local girlfriend, so what do they care? They will get the money.
I have said it, once, twice, trice, and many more times. You cannot judge people by their bank-account, their education, their nationality, their supposedly statue in the local community, and their behavior. You will have to judge them according to your own standards of morality.
Having said all of this, still being a newbie with only 2 1/2 years of living here, but with the experience of having lived in several diiferent cultures for over 20 years, I can only formulate the following conclusions...
- life in the DR is far from paradise, but then again, it beats the hell out of living in Belgium. I go back once a year for business, and I am always happy when that one week is behind me. As long as that happens I know I am living in the right country.
- While living here I have been screwed twice. Once by a rich Dominican, who still owes me a couple of thousand of dollars... who I have to beg and threaten every couple of months, but who pays me in installments, and who I still am capable of calling a friend. Whenever I need a favor, he is there, big time. And once by an expat, and poster on this board. No further comment.
Just my 2 cents...
The lack of understanding of how the DR "really" works, class structure, dating, doing business etc is scary!
PICHARDO, I feel for you!
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!... Thank you!... Tha...
This is the same anyhow when they think they know it all and about all in the DR...
Take the one claiming that the DR is NOT on the Gold standard... Already posted the monetary Law that supports it and the system via which it's still in force (convertible currency/values).
Has the know it all of the DR shown a single Law based post to demonstrate that the Gold standard affirmed by the monetary Law of the DR (not the one in USA of France or ...) has been cancelled?
He thinks (along the fan club) that they can change it to their liking and be it the way we Do things in the DR by just "their" words... I posted the monetary Law of the DR ins great extension with the articles relation to convertible and values to kick...
What have they posted? Their words? Hah!
Take the biz model of the many DOMINICAN biz owners that open their presence in the Malls here, they are either drug of God Knows what to these experts according their knowledge of the DR...
Incredibly they need not look far to see the same explanation I provided as how do biz in the DR work when dealing with how much foot traffic they need to stay alive and well, when all you need is to look at how Cobraboy (Robert) runs his biz from his home garage in Jarabacoa... As I posted, his biz is supported by clients that never needed the brick and mortar for them to get his services (which are tangible and real). If he ever decided to grow some extra bulk in his pouch, he could go for the Mall presence, however small, still can't go wrong by adding extra clients he never had access to that way.
Others that pair the DR's RE market to that of their country, when the DR is nothing like it...
Others that think that what they experience in their campitos by the coast is the true DR life and people, when over 80% of those denizens are but first generation and later Haitians... Suffices to say that the population of those coastal campitos back in the 80's was but finger counting to what you see now and Dominicans didn't replicate like cloned flies...
The others that dare tell us Dominicans that Santiago and SD are cities where low income, poor and extreme poor hoods makes the majority of the same said cities... The canicas!!! Yet not a single one has dared take the challenge and make a head to head count of such in your face reality they so much talk about!
The other than claims 20% of the populations is lost and unaccounted in a breakdown, far from which they're more than accounted and detailed for.
It's rather very funny that people come to tell me what was there and is there now in Santiago and elsewhere, when I grew up in it and still live in it.
Over 70% of the time here you have expats asking questions about how to obtain visas for their "Dominican" GFs and yet later they found out they don't even qualify to get their 'Dominican" BC in the first place...
Just like most other LA countries the DR is a country with poverty, the more so when faced with sharing the island with a country entitled the poorest in the western hemisphere. What did you expect to see when the border is but an imagined line from above, which can be seen by the naked eye sadly due to Haiti's insane deforestation...
Take down the wall between the US and Mexico and see a worst problem of poverty in the US as a result. The poor migrate, the well to do stays put. The poorest grabs whatever there is to hold onto and stay alive. Over 90% of abandoned homes by Dominican farmers in the campos are occupied by Haitians, who work the earth and provide an extra income to those Dominicans that left to the big cities. Dominicans they are not and their kids are what?
But hey! You just got everything figured out in the DR, given how well educated and smart you're compared to "Dominicans"...
Take the one claiming that the DR is NOT on the Gold standard... Already posted the monetary Law that supports it and the system via which it's still in force (convertible currency/values).
Has the know it all of the DR shown a single Law based post to demonstrate that the Gold standard affirmed by the monetary Law of the DR (not the one in USA of France or ...) has been cancelled?
He thinks (along the fan club) that they can change it to their liking and be it the way we Do things in the DR by just "their" words... I posted the monetary Law of the DR ins great extension with the articles relation to convertible and values to kick...
What have they posted? Their words? Hah!
Take the biz model of the many DOMINICAN biz owners that open their presence in the Malls here, they are either drug of God Knows what to these experts according their knowledge of the DR...
Incredibly they need not look far to see the same explanation I provided as how do biz in the DR work when dealing with how much foot traffic they need to stay alive and well, when all you need is to look at how Cobraboy (Robert) runs his biz from his home garage in Jarabacoa... As I posted, his biz is supported by clients that never needed the brick and mortar for them to get his services (which are tangible and real). If he ever decided to grow some extra bulk in his pouch, he could go for the Mall presence, however small, still can't go wrong by adding extra clients he never had access to that way.
Others that pair the DR's RE market to that of their country, when the DR is nothing like it...
Others that think that what they experience in their campitos by the coast is the true DR life and people, when over 80% of those denizens are but first generation and later Haitians... Suffices to say that the population of those coastal campitos back in the 80's was but finger counting to what you see now and Dominicans didn't replicate like cloned flies...
The others that dare tell us Dominicans that Santiago and SD are cities where low income, poor and extreme poor hoods makes the majority of the same said cities... The canicas!!! Yet not a single one has dared take the challenge and make a head to head count of such in your face reality they so much talk about!
The other than claims 20% of the populations is lost and unaccounted in a breakdown, far from which they're more than accounted and detailed for.
It's rather very funny that people come to tell me what was there and is there now in Santiago and elsewhere, when I grew up in it and still live in it.
Over 70% of the time here you have expats asking questions about how to obtain visas for their "Dominican" GFs and yet later they found out they don't even qualify to get their 'Dominican" BC in the first place...
Just like most other LA countries the DR is a country with poverty, the more so when faced with sharing the island with a country entitled the poorest in the western hemisphere. What did you expect to see when the border is but an imagined line from above, which can be seen by the naked eye sadly due to Haiti's insane deforestation...
Take down the wall between the US and Mexico and see a worst problem of poverty in the US as a result. The poor migrate, the well to do stays put. The poorest grabs whatever there is to hold onto and stay alive. Over 90% of abandoned homes by Dominican farmers in the campos are occupied by Haitians, who work the earth and provide an extra income to those Dominicans that left to the big cities. Dominicans they are not and their kids are what?
But hey! You just got everything figured out in the DR, given how well educated and smart you're compared to "Dominicans"...
there is only one misconception that gringos have; "i will fit in".
hell, no, you will not. you will always stand out, like cacata on birthday cake. not even when you learn perfect spanish, mingle with the locals and live like dominicans do. not even if you are dark skinned or of latino origin, so you look dominican. not even when you marry, start a family and go to local church. something will always give you away. something will always tell: the way you talk, the things you know. turning your eyes away so you don't see a hungry street dog. reaching for change at the sight of a begging child. washing your lettuce in chloro water before you eat it. ironing in the rain. not eating sweets when you find out you have diabetes. breastfeeding your child instead of reaching for formula. walking out in the rain.
little things. big things. they will give you away for sure. there is no way you can fit in, no way you can be a part of it. behind your back, you will never be reffered to by your name, you will always be called a gringo.
you can boast all you want about your spanish, your acclimatization, your friends in high and low places. you can brag how you know the game, how you learnt the ropes. no. you know you didn't.
hell, no, you will not. you will always stand out, like cacata on birthday cake. not even when you learn perfect spanish, mingle with the locals and live like dominicans do. not even if you are dark skinned or of latino origin, so you look dominican. not even when you marry, start a family and go to local church. something will always give you away. something will always tell: the way you talk, the things you know. turning your eyes away so you don't see a hungry street dog. reaching for change at the sight of a begging child. washing your lettuce in chloro water before you eat it. ironing in the rain. not eating sweets when you find out you have diabetes. breastfeeding your child instead of reaching for formula. walking out in the rain.
little things. big things. they will give you away for sure. there is no way you can fit in, no way you can be a part of it. behind your back, you will never be reffered to by your name, you will always be called a gringo.
you can boast all you want about your spanish, your acclimatization, your friends in high and low places. you can brag how you know the game, how you learnt the ropes. no. you know you didn't.
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