Will this settle the "there isn't a color issue" here?

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RG84

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[video=youtube;fXeImgfddS8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXeImgfddS8[/video]

I'm looking forward to seeing this. Do you guys think this movie will give an accurate portrait of his life. I'm sure some creative license will take place. I hope it starts discussions about how to fix race issue and political issues in this country.

Can some of the DR1 members that lived through that time give their opinions of why he didn't win?

Talking to just a few people, he seemed to be the favorite and most of them said he didn't win because of his color and heritage. The powers that be did whatever it took to make sure he lost.
 

RG84

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No, I'm and outsider who have disused this with a handful of people. Not enough to for an answer.
 

Tamborista

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His Haitian father may have contributed to his inability to win, ya' think?
 

Tamborista

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You are correct, Altagracia Julia Molina Chevalier was a mix, including Haitan blood.
 
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Pe?a G?mez seemed to have been judged more for his appearance than for his beliefs and abilities, in some ways like Obama. Racial atidudes are different in the DR than in the US, but they do exist.
Of course, it is also true that there are other factors as well. James Madison was a 5'2" pipsqueak that could never be elected president today. Nor could FDR because his paralysis would not be as easily concealed.
 

london777

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Talking to just a few people, he seemed to be the favorite and most of them said he didn't win because of his color and heritage. The powers that be did whatever it took to make sure he lost.
Your last sentence nails it. Color was just a convenient weapon to use against him. Had he been white they would have used some other excuse like "He was actually born in Kenya", and if that still did not work they would have sent in the army (and maybe US Marines) again like in 1964.

No telling what would have happened had he been elected. My guess is any attempts at democratization would have been undermined by the power-brokers. Or, to survive and get things done, he might have totally compromized his original ideals. We see that pattern all over Latin America and Africa with populist leaders. The word "populist" is the key. They have no deep class-rooted ideology so blow with the prevailing winds.

His party has moved from being center-left in his day to right-wing beggars for crumbs thrown by the PLD (itself a party that has largely betrayed the ideals of its founder, Juan Bosch).

If you want to see how an election gets stolen, just look at Haiti at present. Many of the same ploys of the 1964 DR election are being used there.

One interesting difference in the DR should be mentioned. Those who are crushed by the establishment and branded "enemigos de la patria" are later honored by the same establishment, once a safe length of time has passed. So Pe?a G?mez has his airport and Caama?o De?? has his statue and streets. (I do not think there are any street or airports named after Trotsky in Russia). And of course they mostly come from establishment families or intermarry with them, so the "unpleasantness" can largely be kept within the family, like in the Mafia.
 

RG84

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Funny while writing this I'm listening to the sounds of music and car horns at the kick off of the Political season. PLD in full swing. I don't have a dog in the fight but it's still interesting to observe.
 

AlterEgo

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RG84, come back out to visit us next month, sit with my husband and he'll give you his views on that episode.

You don't really think Balaguer would ever let him win that election, do you? I remember hearing that a couple of hundred thousand PRD showed up to vote, and their names had been erased/removed from the rosters.
 

RG84

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RG84, come back out to visit us next month, sit with my husband and he'll give you his views on that episode.

You don't really think Balaguer would ever let him win that election, do you? I remember hearing that a couple of hundred thousand PRD showed up to vote, and their names had been erased/removed from the rosters.
I would love to hear some first hand accounts.
 

Kipling333

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Not directed at you Tambo, but exactly what "color" is Haitian blood?? Isn't it the same color as every other human's blood??
When I was a volunteer teacher , I got the students to poke out their tongues ..funny thing..all the same colour ..that got them thinking
 

jstarebel

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When I was a volunteer teacher , I got the students to poke out their tongues ..funny thing..all the same colour ..that got them thinking
and that's exactly what is needed in the world today.. people that think for themselves.. especially young people and in all cultures. us old timers are way to set in our ways no matter how stupid they are.
 

ltsnyder

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I was there at that time, not to vote, but I remember talking to people, Pe?a G?mez was effectively a third party candidate to the Balagar/Juan Bosh contests.

The rumor spread at the time was that he might reunite Haiti and DR as one country. If I remember correctly there was basically two established power structures in the to established mentioned parties. Again, if I remember correctly they formed some kind of unity party to go against Pe?a G?mez which did win.

The division of the voting was on "class" boundaries, many of the poor wanted Pe?a G?mez, especially of Haitian decent. While anyone who could afford a Haitian servant in the house to kick around, (and it really did not take much money for that), most likely voted for the established parties.

It effectively was a class and race struggle, and the established parties were determined not to be toppled by the new guy.

I said "Kick around" from my own experience, I remember a Beauty Shop owner, oh my, she treated her Haitian house helper horribly, that was the norm, because they quite literally .... could. It has been as long as I can remember that the PN would be rounding up Haitians and sending them to the boarder. It does not take a genius to realize, with so many people lacking papers, how do they know they people are Haitians .... after all the PN and most DR state employees kind of run things "off the cuff" the epiphany that eventually dawns on you is that it must be a color coded round up.

As a post script to this.....

After the Baniter Bank collapse, you could not feed your self running a Beauty parlor, so if his candidacy happened after Baniter, I don't know if it would have been better or worse for him, as you can see now, with tight resources, Haitians have been the focus of the Government.
 

NALs

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His Haitian father may have contributed to his inability to win, ya' think?
His Haitian father AND mother. That's why the fear was of the country falling into the hands that aren't truly Dominican. Pe?a G?mez was adopted by a Dominican family (hence his last names) when he was a kid, but both of his biological parents were illegal Haitian immigrants.

Ulises Hereaux was black and half Haitian origin, but he was born in Puerto Plata and he was half black from one of those English islands in the Lesser Antilles. I think his mother was from Saint Thomas or Saint Lucia or one of those Saint something islands.

The whole color issue was more a claim on the part of the leftists (and the communist), as they do with all Haitian related issues in the DR. The last scandal due to the migration issue is a perfect recent example of that, as everyone witnessed how the whole situation was twisted out of proportion to the point that the perception many outside the DR had (and many still have) is completely out of touch with what truly happened.

There's an interview somewhere in Youtube where Pe?a Gomez's widow is questioned about whether he was truly Dominican and she responded that she has documents from his family IN HAITI that proves this or that. I will see if I can find it.

Lastly, Pe?a G?mez never liked to talk about his Haitian origin and never appreciated when someone mentioned that to him. His closest friends have said this about him. One of them is Hip?lito Mej?a who even said that he told Pe?a that he shouldn't feel bad or shame for that, but that Pe?a never liked it when people mentioned his origin. Perhaps he was vividly aware that he being 100% of Haitian blood was the main problem for he acheiving the presidency.

Lastly, its widely known that one of Trujillo's great grandparents was Haitian, but what is often not said is that the ties goes to the Port-au-Prince oligarchy, the lightskin mulatto ones. In fact, his Haitian ancestor would (and probably was) had been seen as white in Dominican society.

I will see if I can find Pe?a G?mez's widow saying the things I cited her further up in this post.
 

NALs

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Here she is. She also says one thing that I previously didn't capture and that is that Pe?a G?mez's biological mother died IN HAITI. It wasn't just his father.

[video=youtube;dMeynWAiSGo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMeynWAiSGo[/video]
 

chic

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well is a beautiful woman a beatiful woman or do you judge the men...on color me i judge the ladies.
 

RG84

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His Haitian father AND mother. That's why the fear was of the country falling into the hands that aren't truly Dominican. Pe?a G?mez was adopted by a Dominican family (hence his last names) when he was a kid, but both of his biological parents were illegal Haitian immigrants.

Ulises Hereaux was black and half Haitian origin, but he was born in Puerto Plata and he was half black from one of those English islands in the Lesser Antilles. I think his mother was from Saint Thomas or Saint Lucia or one of those Saint something islands.

The whole color issue was more a claim on the part of the leftists (and the communist), as they do with all Haitian related issues in the DR. The last scandal due to the migration issue is a perfect recent example of that, as everyone witnessed how the whole situation was twisted out of proportion to the point that the perception many outside the DR had (and many still have) is completely out of touch with what truly happened.

There's an interview somewhere in Youtube where Pe?a Gomez's widow is questioned about whether he was truly Dominican and she responded that she has documents from his family IN HAITI that proves this or that. I will see if I can find it.

Lastly, Pe?a G?mez never liked to talk about his Haitian origin and never appreciated when someone mentioned that to him. His closest friends have said this about him. One of them is Hip?lito Mej?a who even said that he told Pe?a that he shouldn't feel bad or shame for that, but that Pe?a never liked it when people mentioned his origin. Perhaps he was vividly aware that he being 100% of Haitian blood was the main problem for he acheiving the presidency.

Lastly, its widely known that one of Trujillo's great grandparents was Haitian, but what is often not said is that the ties goes to the Port-au-Prince oligarchy, the lightskin mulatto ones. In fact, his Haitian ancestor would (and probably was) had been seen as white in Dominican society.

I will see if I can find Pe?a G?mez's widow saying the things I cited her further up in this post.

So his color had nothing to do with it? It's the same as if he had big ears, or big nose.
 
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