woman for president!!

Ken

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Didn't take you long, cira, to become known on dr1. Keep it up.

I think there are very few women in the DR who through training and experience are ready to govern the nation--not because women are inherently inferior to men, but because Dominican men have not encouraged women to assume leadership roles.

Look how long it has taken women in the US to rise to the political heights from which presidents are chosen. And men in the US aren't as macho as they are in the Dominican Republic.

But I think the right woman could be an outstanding president for the DR. I would like to think she would have her priorities closer to being right for the country than have most of the males who have held this office.

Are you thinking of coming back and entering politics, cira? From what I have seen during your short time on the board, you seem to have the qualities needed to become a good president.
 

Cira

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Actually Ken I am involved in politics here in Boston.

One thing that a lot of men do not see is that even though Dominican women are most devoted to their families, we have the courage to stand up for oursrelves. It is not so much the machism, but the lack of confidence and litlle support that we get. We already have a VP who is a woma and has run the country by herself in various ocassions while Hipolito was out, during this times she has demonstrated that she is a leader and that she could help the country, look at what she has done for the education of our country!!
 

Jane J.

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I think there are very few women in the DR who through training and experience are ready to govern the nation...
Ken, what sort of training and experience are you referring to? There are *thousands* of professional female lawyers, doctors, and businesswomen out there who would be better suited to the presidency then Hippo, the farmer from Gurabo.

You say, Look how long it has taken the US blah blah blah, when in reality the DR is ahead of the US in that respect. Or hadn't you noticed Milagros Bosch? Look around, Ken, and you will see many women involved in politics on a national and municipal level, who have plenty of training and experience.
 

Keith R

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It's Quite Possible, But Won't Be Easy to Achieve

Cira,
Great question for debate! One of my favorites, as a matter of fact.
When I taught writing at the Dominico (1996-97), one of the types of writing we had to teach was argumentative. I often chose the question of whether a woman could ever be elected president of the DR. 1/3 the class would be assigned to argue the pro side, 1/3 the con, and 1/3 assigned to critique the arguments and vote on who convinced them (and explain why). It was fascinating to listen to the arguments, listen to the reasoning of my students, who were all voting age adults, some college students, some working professionals, some just individuals wanting to expand their horizons. Most classes were pretty evenly divided between male and female. The three main party affiliations (PRD, PLD, PRSC) were always represented. What conclusions did they have in common? The following:
(1) theoretically, a woman should be able to run the DR. They all pointed out Thatcher, Indira Ghandi, etc.
(2) Most of the students felt Milagros Ortiz Bosch had what it took to run the country, if given a chance. (Remember, in those days, Milagros was only a Senator, not even nominated as VP for PRD).
(3) All that said, a woman, even Milagros, would probably never get all the votes necessary to be elected president.
When I inquired as to why they reached conclusion #3, I was surprised. Some mentioned machoism, that men would be hesitant to vote for a woman as president. But often many of the male students would say that they would vote for Milagros if she was nominated by her party. IT WAS THE FEMALE STUDENTS, with rare exception, WHO INSISTED THAT DOMINICAN WOMEN WOULDN"T VOTE FOR A WOMAN PRESIDENT. They insisted that most Dominican women, while proud that women like Milagros have gained high positions in government and business, would not trust a woman to actually run the country on an ongoing basis. They would opt for a strong, authoritative male to keep a "firm grip" on the reins. I would ask if maybe the students were selling the female voters of the DR short, that perhaps those voters might surprise everyone if Milagros ever was nominated. Most of the female students would insist that it wouldn't happen without a radical change of attitude among dominicanas .
I wish I was still running that class for many reasons (mainly because I love teaching), among them being able to stage that debate again today, after Dominicans have seen Milagros in her vice presidential role for a couple of years. I wonder if attitudes have changed.
For my own part, I have to say that I was disappointed when Milagros chose to be the VP of Hipo. I had met Hipo and heard him speak in a small town long before he gained the PRD nomination, and I was not impressed at all. I felt -- and still do -- that Milagros may have done more damage than help to her reputation by linking her name to Hipo's. I know that she made the deal in order to be at the head of the line the next time the PRD national primary occurs, but I think she traded away too much in the process. Hipo gave her the most difficult portfolio in which to show measurable progess (education), has repeatedly tied her hands in implementing her mandate (taking away budget, etc.), and has encouraged (officially no, but unofficially in every way possible) the movement to get himself re-elected president. What has she gained in return? The ability to say that she sits at Hipo's desk whenever he's traveling outside the country (which seems all too frequent these days)? Has that ever gotten a VP elected in the DR? Or for that matter, in the US (except Bush I)?
Ah, well. My two cents worth. I look forward to seeing what other posters have to say.
Best regards,
Keith
 
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Ken

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Jane J. said:
You say, Look how long it has taken the US blah blah blah, when in reality the DR is ahead of the US in that respect. Or hadn't you noticed Milagros Bosch? Look around, Ken, and you will see many women involved in politics on a national and municipal level, who have plenty of training and experience.



Give me a break, gals. I said I would be in favor of a woman president in the DR. I didn't say there weren't women in the DR who were ready to be President, I said there were very few. I was thinking of Milagros when I wrote that, but couldn't think of any other woman with the stature to be considered a serious candidate for President at this time.

I agree that there are many women better suited for the office than the incumbent, but except for Milagros I don't think any of them have a chance of being considered.

I don't agree that the DR is ahead of the US with respect to grooming women to be President. The DR has Milagros, the US has women Governors, US Senators, Congresswomen, Cabinet officers, Supreme Court Justices, Generals, etc., etc. You can argue all you want, but I think the US is closer to electing a woman President than the DR is.
 

Ken

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Cira said:
One thing that a lot of men do not see is that even though Dominican women are most devoted to their families, we have the courage to stand up for oursrelves. It is not so much the machism, but the lack of confidence and litlle support that we get. We already have a VP who is a woma and has run the country by herself in various ocassions while Hipolito was out, during this times she has demonstrated that she is a leader and that she could help the country, look at what she has done for the education of our country!!
I agree, cira, as I tried to inidicate in my first post and in my reply to the snipers.

The DR needs more women like Milagro. You sound like you are of the same type; very glad to hear you are actively involved in the political process. What are your goals? I presume you are eligible to be elected to any position in the US other than President.
 

Keith R

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Um, Ken

Ken said:


I don't agree that the DR is ahead of the US with respect to grooming women to be President. The DR has Milagros, the US has women Governors, US Senators, Congresswomen, Cabinet officers, Supreme Court Justices, Generals, etc., etc. You can argue all you want, but I think the US is closer to electing a woman President than the DR is.
Are you so sure? Which woman in the US do you think is poised to seize her party's nomination for president? I frankly can't think of one. There are many competent women that should run, but none I see on-track for 2004. Yet I see Milagros standing a good chance of being the PRD candidate in 2004 if Hipolito sticks to his word and does not run for re-election.
The DR only has Milagros? Well, she may be the only with a shot at the presidency, but not the only one ni a position of power. What about Dra. Rafaela Alburquerque, the head of the Chamber of Deputies? Has the US ever had a female Speaker of the House?
The DR has, last time I counted, about 23 female Deputies and two female Senators. Does the US have a higher proportion (%) in the House of Representatives & Senate? I'm not sure they do, I'm going to check into it.
Cabinet members? Well, true, women only have 2 of 11 Cabinet posts in the DR, but isn't that proprotionally the same as the US right now? I don't know about Supreme Court Justices, but I do know that during the Fernandez yrs a number of women became judges. I recall that one of the high profile cases during 1999 (assassination of the journalist?), the judge was a woman and she was tough.
I guess I'm suggesting that perhaps the US is not actually all that far ahead of the DR as you argue.
Regards,
Keith
 

Ken

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With respect to Milagros, she could prove me wrong. I hope she does. But, vamos a ver.

With respect to the other positions, I'm not talking about titles. I'm talking about the demands and pressures of the job. For example, I know there are women Governors in the DR; Samana where I lived for 12 years has one right now. But a Governor of a State in the US and a Governor of a Province in the DR are two very different things. A Governor of a State, given the population, budget, services and agencies, etc., under his/her jurisdiction has responsibilities very much like that of the President of the DR.

With respect to Jane J.'s statement that the DR is way ahead of the US with respect to women in politics, this fails to take into account what a woman in the US must do to rise to the position of Governor, US Senator, Secretary of State (Madeline Albright), Attorney General (Janet Reno), etc.. There are more than 200 million people in the US compared to 8 or 9 million in the DR. There are Governors with more constituents than the President of the DR has. To become a Governor or a US Senator, for example, you have to rise above many more qualilfied asperants than does any elected official in the DR. Just because the US hasn't yet had a female VP doesn't mean that the US lags behind the DR. For a woman in the US to become the President, she has to rise above 200+ million, while the President of the DR only has to rise above a fraction of that.

I am not trying to switch this debate to a different subject, nor make light of what Milagros and other women in the DR have accomplished in the political world. They have my respect and admiration. But so do the women who have risen to positions of leadership in the government of the US, because I believe they have had to overcome more obstacles than their counterparts in a number of other countries.

Finally, let me stress again that I am not opposed to a woman being President of the US, the DR or any other country. Also, I am very hopeful that Milagros gets elected President of the DR; I think she would do an outstanding job providing the system is malleable enough to permit her to make needed changes.
 
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Pib

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So Ken, is it all about gross numbers or percentages. So, Norway is not good enough because they are so few. How about India then?

Let met tell you something I will never, and I say NEVER vote for a woman. I will though vote for whom I think is the best candidate, be it woman or a man. I couldn't care less. Dominican women maybe have not gotten all the accomplishemts that American women have gotten on paper, but we are slowly taking over in many areas, and yes, I believe the chances of a Dominican female president is closer than that of the US.

You definitely have to start reading the newspapers Ken.
 

Jane J.

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Give me a break, gals.
Okay, boy, we will give you a break.

With respect to Jane J.'s statement that the DR is way ahead of the US
What I said was that the DR is ahead, not "way" ahead, and what I meant was, that it has achieved something that the US has not - it has a woman VP. Undeniably true.

I discovered that there *were* 5 female senators (out of 32) and overall, 23 female diputados out of 146 in the DR, for the 1998 - 2002 period. Make of this what you will.

http://www.congreso.gov.do/Periodo98/diputadosb.htm
 
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N

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You ask about a US woman "leading the party," care to take bets that Mrs Bill won't run for the Presidnecy should Bush be re elected and the seat is open in 2008? ( I am basing this on Hillary not having to challenge a stiing democrat that hopefully will unseat his stupidness in 2004).

She also has the promise of fufilling her current term as Senator.

Like her or hate her, Mrs Clinton will galvanize the electorate and her husband is about the best fund raiser in Political history

I can see it now, Clinton/Kennedy, hows that for tilting left?

Janice
 

mondongo

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Of the Dominicans I know and come in contact with, the women are easily better educated, better communicators,better thinkers....more pragmatic, more motivated....etc.....etc..... Dominican women just plain kick ass....and some of you Canadian "gals" too.... this Cabernet Sauvignon is cheap but REALLY good...
 
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MommC

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I think once Dominican Women start to realize that they have the upper hand as far as voting power goes, they will not hesitate to put a woman who has the necessary credentials in the President's seat.
 

Cira

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Ken,
I am actually involved in the Dominican Politics in the U.S. I could be elegible to fill any position in the government, even though I back up many of the people running for office and government here in Boston. I am only interested in running a position in DR. Not for personal gain but for the better of our Dominican society. It is a shame that I have not been involved in politics that long and thanks to my short experience and years of age, I will not be doing it for any time soon. But hopefully some day I too will be running for government.
Cira
 

El Jefe

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Janice

Don't think promises would keep Hilly from running...seems to be a family trait of breaking promises...

With PIB as queen who needs a female president?
 

Ken

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Hold your fire, ladies, I'm not the enemy

Pib said:
So Ken, is it all about gross numbers or percentages. So, Norway is not good enough because they are so few. How about India then?

Let met tell you something I will never, and I say NEVER vote for a woman. I will though vote for whom I think is the best candidate, be it woman or a man. I couldn't care less. Dominican women maybe have not gotten all the accomplishemts that American women have gotten on paper, but we are slowly taking over in many areas, and yes, I believe the chances of a Dominican female president is closer than that of the US.

You definitely have to start reading the newspapers Ken.
Pib, did you write this? I asked because you usually don't blather.

1. No, it is not "all about gross numbers or percentages." I mentioned that only because I felt that Jane J. was minimizing the accomplishment of women polilticians in the US because the US does not have a woman VP. The point I was trying to make, though obviously not very well, that the larger the society the more difficult it is for anyone, male or female, to get to the top spot. I feel that the fact that women have been elected Governor of States as large as the DR (for example, New Jersey with 8.5 million) was a tremendous accomplishment, given the competition they had to overcome. Likewise with women elected as US Senators, a statewide office (California, for example, with 34 million).

2. Did I say I wouldn't vote for the best candidate, whether male or female? Why did you throw that in? I was only trying to convey my support for females desiring to run for high poliltical office--in other words, that I wouldn't vote against a candidate just because she was a she.

3. You may well be right that the DR is closer to electing a female President than the US. I acknowledged that in my posts and said that I hope Milagros proved me wrong in thinking otherwise. Did I express that so poorly, too, that you didn't understand?

With respect to Jane J.'s point about the number of females elected to political office in the DR, and her "make of this what you will", I already said in one of myk previous posts that they have my admiration and respect. Again, I was only trying to make sure that the accomplishment of women in politics was not passed over too lightly because there was yet no VP, by pointing out that it is even more difficult for a woman in the US to achieve high office than in the DR because of the much larger numbers--both in terms of constituents as well as competitors for the position.

What further surprises me about what seems to me downplaying of the accomplishment of women in government in the US because there has not been a VP, is that:

1. A woman (Mrs. Dole) was accepted as a serious candidate for President until she chose to withdraw from the race. Presently, she is the clear front runner for US Senator in North Carolina.

2. A woman has run for VP of the US.

3. Madeline Albright served for 8 years as Secretary of State. There are few positions more powerful in the world.

4. Janet Reno served for 8 years as Attorney General. Also a very powerful position.

Beating on me is a misdirected effort. Save your energy for the unconverted. Just on the basis of this thread, I believe that I am at least as willing to support a woman candidate for high office as any of you.

To cira, I thought since you were in the US that you meant you were involved in politics there, but I'm happy to be set straight on that. I'll look forward to hearing about you in the future. Sounds to me from your posts in this and other threads that you are a determined lady who will not be held back.
 
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Jersey Devil

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Cira,


To me the sex of the candidate does not matter. It is
their beliefs and actions. I happen to live in New Jeresy
where we elected Christine Whitman twice as govenor.
I can remember a meeting where another local female
politician blasted CW over her policy, not her gender.
Of course there are some who might not vote for a
woman, just because she is a woman, but those
people are obviously ignorant.

As far as when a female president might be elected,
my guess would be as early as 2008. If GWB gets
re-elected in 2004, look for Hillary Clinton to make a
run. I don't think she would be on a ticket as VP in 2004.

te cuida,