That?s right! In Spanish, when someone substitutes "Que" for "K" it's just to be quicker when chatting or texting, but if they leave the "h" off a word, use the words "hay", "ay" and "ah?" interchangeably, write "grasias" or "vendiciones", among other things, it's due to ignorance.
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Would someone translate a couple sentences for me?
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That?s right! In Spanish, when someone substitutes "Que" for "K" it's just to be quicker when chatting or texting, but if they leave the "h" off a word, use the words "hay", "ay" and "ah?" interchangeably, write "grasias" or "vendiciones", among other things, it's due to ignorance.
I totally agree and one sees a lot of that in the DR. I am not saying it's exclusive to the Dominican Republic but it's no secret either that usage of the Spanish language in the DR both the spoken and written form are problematic.
In addition to not spelling the words correctly some people don't even know the difference between ay and hay. They think they are interchangeable and they are not. I am tired of seeing basic words spelt incorrectly by people of all ages including teachers in the Dominican Republic. Classic examples that I have seen are: mudansa s/b mudanza and targeta s/b tarjeta. How can they be examples for students when they themselves lack the basic knowledge in Spanish?
As well, many have no clue about written accents, the rules and which words require them or the difference between tu and t? when writing which is not an option to use one or the other.
One can note vast differences in linguistic competence in the Spanish-speaking world in terms of basic knowledge of the general population. The DR needs to focus on education of the masses and really improve on basic knowledge- reading, writing and spelling during the formative years of a student's education.
-MP.
Yes, accents can be hard to understand in Spanish at first but it depends how one is taught accentuation and the rules in Spanish. Once you understand accentuation you will not err because it makes sense which compliments the facility to spell in the language compared to English. Spanish is quite a phonetic language and combine this with the rules of accentuation and you are sailing. However, many Spanish speakers don't know or remember the rules. Not knowing where they should be placed on words is just as incorrect as placing them where they do not belong.
Do you read in Spanish? Reading would be a tremendous help to you with these types of grammar points because as you read you will question what you don't understand which in turn will force you to look up the grammar rule.
In English, in contrast I notice that many use it's and its incorrectly. The first is a contraction (it is). The second is an adjective but many use it's when writing when it should be its. At first I thought they were typos but now I think most don't know the difference because it is used incorrectly most of the time.
-MP.
Yeah, and many don't know the difference between words like compliment/complement, affect/effect, they use there/their/they're interchangeably, don't know that "should of" is actually "should have", etc.
Thanks for the tip. I've never had formal classes, so I've always had this silly fear about being tied to a desk conjugating verbs. I think I'll read more to get my confidence up in preparation for a class. (Maybe I can test higher and forgo the "donde esta el bano" phase.)
Any suggestions on recommended reading? I know newspapers are an option, but I'd rather tackle some literature.
Great examples...
These are great examples and I don't know if I have ever seen the 'should of' error instead of 'should have' that you mentioned.
This all falls under the broad topic of grammar and specifically most of the examples mentioned are homonyms. Some are just errors people make in language especially when writing on message boards, email, texting etc but definitely are not acceptable in formal writing of any kind.
I constantly proofread because I know it's so easy to make these types of mistakes and proofreading becomes a skill in order to catch them when writing.
Grammar rules exist in all languages and everyone can make mistakes but there is difference between making them vs. not even knowing that you are incorrect. I constantly review grammar and when in doubt I look it up. I don't know which language I would classify as more difficult in terms of writing but one thing I know for sure is a strong command of grammar is required and reviewing grammar rules every now and then is highly recommended.
-MP.
These are great examples and I don't know if I have ever seen the 'should of' error instead of 'should have' that you mentioned.
This all falls under the broad topic of grammar and specifically most of the examples mentioned are homonyms. Some are just errors people make in language especially when writing on message boards, email, texting etc but definitely are not acceptable in formal writing of any kind.
I constantly proofread because I know it's so easy to make these types of mistakes and proofreading becomes a skill in order to catch them when writing.
Grammar rules exist in all languages and everyone can make mistakes but there is difference between making them vs. not even knowing that you are incorrect. I constantly review grammar and when in doubt I look it up. I don't know which language I would classify as more difficult in terms of writing but one thing I know for sure is a strong command of grammar is required and reviewing grammar rules every now and then is highly recommended.
-MP.
I love your enthusiasm. That alone will allow you to succeed.
I will get back to you tonight as I have to step out. Therefore, check for my post later on.
-MP.
I am a fan of contemporary Spanish literature and I believe you have a lot of options. You can start with short novels and then progress to some of the more lengthy books but it all depends on how comfortable you feel or if you even like reading in Spanish. Excerpts of short stories might interest you first and then some novels of your choice.
Newspapers are a good option but I think you need to find one or two that you like because some papers are just not interesting to read. I change my selection every few months but I have been reading El Universal -Caracas, Venezuela consistently all this year. One key reason is the writing quality and I enjoy the sports section of that paper. Nacional Y Politica - El Universal
Popular contemporary authors- Spanish literature:
(just a few names you may be familiar with already)
1) Isabel Allende (Chile)- if you explore her collection you will enjoy her more recent books but her most famous novel is La Casa de los Esp?ritus. I am reading her most recent novel right now- El cuaderno de Maya and so far I am pleased once again with Isabel's writing caliber.
I also think her release two years ago, La isla bajo el mar is a good read and it does relate to past events of Hispanola in the form of a fictional novel.
2) Rosa Montero (Spain)- she is absolutely a phenomenal writer from Spain. Attempting to describe some of her work does her no justice. I suggest reading some excerpts of her writing and choose any of her contemporary novels. You will not be disappointed.
3) Children's literature- never underestimate the beauty of children's literature and how helpful it can be as a way to improve your vocabulary, grammar and sentence structure in Spanish. Here is the link to a thread I started a few years ago: http://www.dr1.com/forums/spanish-101/62537-para-los-amantes-de-la-buena-lectura-ii.html with quite a few options.
4) Julia ?lvarez- I am sure you have heard of this author. She is Dominican but her Spanish literature is translated. I personally am not impressed with her writing but to each his own. However, if you are looking for simplicity from a writing perspective her work fits the bill.
5) Carlos Ruiz Zaf?n (Spain)- a contemporary Spanish author whose popularity grew after his blockbuster novel- La sombra del viento.
6) Literature textbooks- another suggestion is literature textbooks used in first or second year university literature courses. Each chapter has a short story, discussion questions and a grammar section with a focus on grammar points in the story. A perfect way to address grammatical issues.
BTW- just to note some of the differences in the meaning of these words referenced previously:
tu/ t?
tu casa- your house. (Tu without an accent is an adjective)
t? dices- you say - second person singular of verb decir- present tense (t? is a subject pronoun which means 'you')
Other examples of words that change meaning because of the accent:
aun/ a?n
mas/ m?s
de/ d?
se/ s?
....and there are more words like these.
-MP.
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I've seen 'should of' a couple of times... and by a DR1 moderator who happens to be an educator.
If you are referring to me then only one part of your statement is true. As mentioned previously (post #30) anyone can make these errors when writing but if one is not aware that they are wrong is whole different issue IMO. It's another reason why the writer should not be the proofreader.
BTW- Is this the best you can do? Instead of just critically observing why not share your observations and impart your knowledge about Spanish and/or English grammar. Explain what is correct and incorrect from a grammatical perspective about what you have observed. A few of us in this thread participated in a friendly exchange of posts about language and made broad observations (nothing personalized) Why don't you join in and add to what is being discussed.
-MP.
Saying that something that was done on purpose!
1-Fue a prop?sito!
2-Lo hizo de maldad!
2-Fue aposta!
1-Fue a prop?sito!
2-Lo hizo de maldad!
2-Fue aposta!
I know it's not just in the DR. Please look at the first line of my post you quoted. I stated it right there.
The problems in education in Latin America can be analyzed by region and the DR is a country where there is a serious issue regarding basic education compared to other countries. That was my general point.
Aguaita29 answered your question about how to say 'it was done on purpose'. Just to add one more option:
Lo hizo adrede which means he or she did it on purpose.
-MP.
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Of course I'm not referring to you. The mistake was more evident because the poster claimed to be a teacher in NYC, and he repeated the mistake over and over, so it cannot be a typo. But that was a while ago, and I've been gone. So, I don't know if he's here still.
I make mistakes, too: just recently I typed 'Gault' instead of Galt, and after all was said and done, it was concluded that I lacked education, among other observations not worth repeating. But since I always cringe when the phrase 'having an education' is uttered, I played along. In fact, I don't know what it means. Honestly.
Now, I have always admired your knowledge of Spanish, and your efforts at helping others. And I have learned some things from your posts. Thank you.
I think that's a topic that could be a separate discussion however; in brief education as it relates to language has a lot of weight and/ or validity. In a broad sense people who speak well have or had a solid educational foundation not only in language and grammar but all round which includes a range of topics of study for a long period of time. The period from kindergarten to the end of high school gives students a solid base and opportunity to read a variety of subject material, write and in some cases (not as prevalent today) study grammar in their own language which I think is essential. The more one reads, the better one can write. I truly believe this and if you write a lot you tend to spell better because it's required for proper writing. It?s never too late.
I will use your own example from a post of yours in another thread (http://www.dr1.com/forums/general-stuff/125626-dont-try-speak-street-dominican-5.html#post1121894) The invented word casimente is one grammatical error I have heard only in the Dominican speech population and I believe it's rural and then repeated by other speakers who do not realize that it's not correct. One does not have to be a grammar guru to know that certain aspects of language are wrong. If one has a strong command of his/ her language, s/he can recognize incorrect speech immediately without the grammatical knowledge or specific term.
I have listened to people who say casimente and they have no idea that it's wrong. In my opinion, in general, it's not worth explaining it to them since they probably would not understand and it would be a hard pattern to break. Casi is already an adverb. There is no need to add 'mente' which is how most adverbs are formed in Spanish. The formula is simple. Take the feminine form of an adjective + mente= an adverb (with exceptions of course). Completa- mente, rapida- mente, absoluta- mente but not casi- mente. It should be casi. Listen to the way 'casimente' speakers speak and you will probably hear other incorrect grammatical forms which I have noticed among some Dominican speakers (and rural Puerto Rican speech since these two islands share a lot of grammatical and lexical speech similarities).
Rural Dominican speech has archaic forms that are not considered correct grammar today and should not be repeated or spoken by anyone who is learning Spanish i.e. students or foreigners. For example, certain verbs forms are just wrong. Si Dios quiere (correct) and not si Dios quiera (incorrect). Si viene ... (correct) and not Si venga (incorrect) If people are hearing that or they think that's what they are hearing then they should do the grammatical research. Another one that puzzles me is having a subject pronoun in front of an unconjugated verb. For example, para yo hacer, para yo poder, para yo dar etc. Unbelievable! If the speaker is the subject of sentence (which one will gather from the conversation) yo is not required, para hacer, para poder, para dar....This all falls under the broad topic of education but from a language perspective.
I happened to see that thread and comment about your post and thought it was ridiculous. As I keep saying anyone can make a typo and then posts followed about it which was just beyond my comprehension. I don?t read many threads outside of the Spanish forum mainly because they tend to go south and get personal fast. The Spanish forum is a different dynamic. At least one has to bring some knowledge to the table. Basically, don?t sweat it and I think that was the approach you took anyway.
Thank you. Thanks for reading my posts.
-MP.
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