You in Spanish (many forms and correct usage)

[AlterEgo]

Back when I was learning Spanish (and I am not fluent, everyone understands me, but my tenses slip), I asked Mr AE to help teach me. He was reluctant and I asked why. One of the things I remember him saying (there were others, but this one stuck with me) was that he was afraid I’d use tu instead of usted. I still prompt myself to use Ud, and then I get someone telling me “use tu when you talk to me” (that was a cousin). Mr AE is what Americans call a “grammar nazi” with Spanish, but boy, can he slip into Dominican slang at the drop of a hat!

As Marianopolita said, we foreigners often get away with this. Hopefully, when I slip up, they aren’t offended by the gringa loca.

 

[Chirimoya]

Usted is used to show courtesy towards older/higher status people but also to maintain distance, as pointed out by Matilda and Africaida.
There is also an ironic usted - towards children for example, and a passive-aggressive usted, to put someone in their place if they're being too familiar.

 

[Marianopolita]

Back when I was learning Spanish (and I am not fluent, everyone understands me, but my tenses slip), I asked Mr AE to help teach me. He was reluctant and I asked why. One of the things I remember him saying (there were others, but this one stuck with me) was that he was afraid I’d use tu instead of usted. I still prompt myself to use Ud, and then I get someone telling me “use tu when you talk to me” (that was a cousin). Mr AE is what Americans call a “grammar nazi” with Spanish, but boy, can he slip into Dominican slang at the drop of a hat!

As Marianopolita said, we foreigners often get away with this. Hopefully, when I slip up, they aren’t offended by the gringa loca.

That is interesting that your husband’s fear was that you mix up the informal and formal thus he was reluctant to teach you but you need practice. Yes, you will mix it up but that is all part of learning. I don’t think people are going to be so critical if you use tú instead of usted and especially if they know you are learning.

Incorrect usage may raise some eyebrows but you get better with practice. The DR in general is tuteo country and Usted has specific usage. I mentioned in my post #3 about respect and distance which is why you want to be careful otherwise you will make observations as you interact and learn the language.

In my opinion, a bigger issue is because in colloquial speech the S is dropped then it seems like tú and usted have the same verb forms in all tenses and they do not. Compare:


Tú va with Usted va. Where is the difference?

It s/b Tú vas but if you drop the S they appear to be same form. That is why in the Caribbean the usage of the pronoun Tú is so prevalent compared to other regions because it clarifies the form of address since the S is dropped. It distinguishes the informal and the formal. In Spanish, the subject pronoun is for emphasis. It is not mandatory when conjugating verbs. From a linguistic standpoint this is well-analyzed and noted. The heavy usage of tú is noted in the speech patterns in Cuba, DR and PR.



-MP.

 

[Africaida]

Here is a linguistic map. It gives a breakdown by country the usage of tú, usted and vos. Check out the DR and other Spanish-speaking Caribbean countries. They have similar patterns.

Source: Altura Interactive Spanish Digital Marketing



-MP.

Love that map, very interesting.

I appreciate that the fact that Guinea Ecuatorial is mentioned. I recently met someone from that part of the world, very interesting "accent" (to me, they sound a tiny bit like me as if they speak french :cheeky.
May be, it should be another thread, but are you familiar with it MP?

 

[Marianopolita]

Love that map, very interesting.

I appreciate that the fact that Guinea Ecuatorial is mentioned. I recently met someone from that part of the world, very interesting "accent" (to me, they sound a tiny bit like me as if they speak french :cheeky.
May be, it should be another thread, but are you familiar with it MP?

Am I familiar with the accent from Equatorial Guinea?

Bueno un poquito na’ma. Realmente no te puedo decir que tenga conocimiento.


I have only heard the accent on You Tube listening to locals and the leader of the country. I hear a very distinct accent from Spain. It is definitely there. However, that is a very small sample size.


The accent is definitely a mix so if it sounds like French I am not surprised.

For example, I once bumped into a lady from Guadalupe in Toronto. I don’t how I started talking to her. She asked for directions in French (just like that in Toronto very unusual ) and I helped her but her accent to me was very different but then again I find French very distinct from the Caribbean so I can relate to your observation.


I think the map is great too.


-MP.

 

[2dlight]

Did anyone notice that the map has Costa Rica and Nicaragua reversed in location?

 

[Marianopolita]

Did anyone notice that the map has Costa Rica and Nicaragua reversed in location?

Good catch. I was so interested in the information that I did not focus on the accuracy of the arrows to ensure that they are pointing to the right country. The info though about the pronouns used in Costa Rica and Nicaragua is correct. I can vouch for that.


I just sent the company an email requesting that they correct the map. We don’t want to upset the Ticos and Nicas.


Thanks,

-MP.

 

[AlterEgo]

As I mentioned in another thread, we've been watching the new Netflix show, Bolivar. 60 episodes. The majority of the actors are Venezuelan, Colombian, etc., very easy to understand. After watching about 10 episodes, I mentioned to Mr. AE that not one person has said "tu". Even husbands and wives use "usted". He said he noticed the same thing. We're up to around episode 48, and last night the British officer, "O'Leary", used "tu". Mr. AE actually noticed, and said it was the first time we heard "tu". I said that he got away with it because he was an Irish foreigner. :laugh:

 

[Marianopolita]

As I mentioned in another thread, we've been watching the new Netflix show, Bolivar. 60 episodes. The majority of the actors are Venezuelan, Colombian, etc., very easy to understand. After watching about 10 episodes, I mentioned to Mr. AE that not one person has said "tu". Even husbands and wives use "usted". He said he noticed the same thing. We're up to around episode 48, and last night the British officer, "O'Leary", used "tu". Mr. AE actually noticed, and said it was the first time we heard "tu". I said that he got away with it because he was an Irish foreigner. :laugh:

It is known that Colombia is Usted country. Not to say that the informal is not used but it is a whole different dynamic. In Venezuela the informal is more prevalent and Usted applies in applicable scenarios. This is no surprise. The Caribbean is considered to be very relaxed in comparison to Colombia that really knocks Usted out the park. Then there is voseo usage which is a totally different form of address. For example, if you are paisa voseo is the default. Those forms foreigners do not need to learn but you will hear it.


-MP.

 

[Marianopolita]

AE,


A question for you. What or how do you feel when you are addressed in Spanish? Are you expecting the formal or informal? Does it have an impact? Do you feel the difference with the two forms of address?



-MP.

 

[trynity99]

Naci y vivi en sudamerica hasta my early 20's.

This my first contribution to DR1, hope

Como estas? la letra "s" implica el tu, esto lo usamos en conversaciones con amigos, familia, conversaciones diarias, etc.
Como esta? implica usted, mas formal.
Como esta usted? recontra formal, por ejemplo, con el presidente de tu compañia, si quieres causar una muy buena impresion.

Marianopolita como estas? - confianza, que te conozco o te considero un igual.
Marianopolita como esta? - recien te conozco y/o eres bastante mayor que , o eres mu jefe(a), etc
Marianopolita como esta usted? es un poco mas formal.

Hoy en dia el 90% de las conversaciones de una persona comun es mas desentendida, informal.

Mi idioma de nacimiento es el español y yo uso como estas?, casi nunca "Tu", no recuerdo la vez que use"tu"
Como esta? o como esta usted? como señal de respeto, ejm, personas mayores.


Como estan? la letra "n" iimplica ellos(usetedes), lo usamos si le preguntas a 2 o mas personas.

Marianopolita y AE como estan?

T
Resumen:
Si usas "tu" lo mas probable es que el español es tu segunda lengua y la aprendiste de adulto.
Usted se usa en situaciones en la que quieres dar a entender que respetas a la persona o la posicion de la persona.

Anyway, these are my two cents.

 

[El Rey de Mangu]

Naci y vivi en sudamerica hasta my early 20's.

How does that work

 

[trynity99]

How does that work

What do you mean?

 

[El Rey de Mangu]

What do you mean?

Sorry trynity, I was going to ask what regions, and I was typing to my mother in messenger lol

 

[trynity99]

Ok, Peru, now i live in New York city.

 

[AlterEgo]

AE,


A question for you. What or how do you feel when you are addressed in Spanish? Are you expecting the formal or informal? Does it have an impact? Do you feel the difference with the two forms of address?



-MP.

As you know, we live in the campo. The people there all call me Dona or Señora and use Ud. I’m a very informal person, and I struggle to remind myself to use Ud. I spend a lot of time with extended family, and it’s tu all the way, them and me.

Yes, I do feel the difference.

 

[Chirimoya]

I dislike usted as it goes against my nature to consider anyone an inferior or a superior. I'm almost always taken aback when someone of any age/status addresses me as usted.

I recognise the value of using usted to show respect but only up to a point. I try to show respect by listening to the person, letting them finish a sentence, and not talking over them, which a lot of people who painstakingly use the conventions of usted, don/doña, señor/a and other courtesies don't always bother with.

 

[NALs]

Resumen:
Si usas "tu" lo mas probable es que el español es tu segunda lengua y la aprendiste de adulto.
Usted se usa en situaciones en la que quieres dar a entender que respetas a la persona o la posicion de la persona.

Anyway, these are my two cents.

In the Spanish Caribbean you will use "tu" more than you can remember. "Usted" is used in formal settings, to someone of a higher social rank than you, and to elders. The exception is if the other person insist that you use "tu" instead, on which continuing with "usted" becomes an insult. Some people will scold you in a joking way that is suppose to be serious. To not use "tu" in the DR means that a person isn't native to the Spanish Caribbean or Spanish in general was learn later in life.

In the Caribbean the Spanish has more in common to certain areas of Andalusia and the Canary Islands, both in southern Spain. Natives from there even drop the "S" at the end of some words and in the Canary Islands natives will use "guagua" to refer to a bus, just like it's done in the Spanish Caribbean (but not done elsewhere in Latin America, except some Chileans but they use it to mean a baby). The people in those parts of Spain don't even pronounce the "Z" as natives from Madrid do, which is often thought as the correct Spanish despite that the RAE says that all Spanish dialects are correct. The Spanish spoken in many parts of Andalusia and in the Canary Islands is often joke about by people from Madrid, Barcelona, etc; despite that several studies have shown that the language spoken there is more developed than in Madrid. Paradoxes of life. LOL

I have caught even people that lived in the DR doing as faux pas in other countries. Take "chin", which is a Taino word that is used in the DR and less so in Cuba, PR, and Venezuela. Outside of those countries the people don't even know what it means (meaning: a little bit). I saw Mustafa Abu Naba saying "chin" in Panama. SMH

 

[Marianopolita]

In the Spanish Caribbean you will use "tu" more than you can remember. "Usted" is used in formal settings, to someone of a higher social rank than you, and to elders. The exception is if the other person insist that you use "tu" instead, on which continuing with "usted" becomes an insult. Some people will scold you in a joking way that is suppose to be serious. To not use "tu" in the DR means that a person isn't native to the Spanish Caribbean or Spanish in general was learn later in life.......

I agree with this piece. As I mentioned in several posts Tú is predominant in the Caribbean outside of certain scenarios.

Naci y vivi en sudamerica hasta my early 20's.

This my first contribution to DR1, hope

Como estas? la letra "s" implica el tu, esto lo usamos en conversaciones con amigos, familia, conversaciones diarias, etc.
Como esta? implica usted, mas formal.
Como esta usted? recontra formal, por ejemplo, con el presidente de tu compañia, si quieres causar una muy buena impresion.

Marianopolita como estas? - confianza, que te conozco o te considero un igual.
Marianopolita como esta? - recien te conozco y/o eres bastante mayor que , o eres mu jefe(a), etc
Marianopolita como esta usted? es un poco mas formal.

Hoy en dia el 90% de las conversaciones de una persona comun es mas desentendida, informal.

Mi idioma de nacimiento es el español y yo uso como estas?, casi nunca "Tu", no recuerdo la vez que use"tu"
Como esta? o como esta usted? como señal de respeto, ejm, personas mayores.


Como estan? la letra "n" iimplica ellos(usetedes), lo usamos si le preguntas a 2 o mas personas.

Marianopolita y AE como estan?

T
Resumen:
Si usas "tu" lo mas probable es que el español es tu segunda lengua y la aprendiste de adulto.
Usted se usa en situaciones en la que quieres dar a entender que respetas a la persona o la posicion de la persona.

Anyway, these are my two cents.

In general, I agree with your post but there is room for discussion on differences in the Spanish-speaking world but that is something I would prefer to do face to face rather than on a message board.


Gracias.

As you know, we live in the campo. The people there all call me Dona or Señora and use Ud. I’m a very informal person, and I struggle to remind myself to use Ud. I spend a lot of time with extended family, and it’s tu all the way, them and me.

Yes, I do feel the difference.

Yes, this sounds typical. If you are not used to Usted don’t worry about it. I think people will have a different expectation. They will be happy that you try to communicate (I hope).

I dislike usted as it goes against my nature to consider anyone an inferior or a superior. I'm almost always taken aback when someone of any age/status addresses me as usted.

I recognise the value of using usted to show respect but only up to a point. I try to show respect by listening to the person, letting them finish a sentence, and not talking over them, which a lot of people who painstakingly use the conventions of usted, don/doña, señor/a and other courtesies don't always bother with.

I agree with this and I read an article precisely about this last night. It was about Usted and those who use it are not always the best example of politeness. The reverse was true that people who use the informal clearly were more polite in their form of address and behaviour towards people.



-MP.

 

[Marianopolita]

Naci y vivi en sudamerica hasta my early 20's.

This my first contribution to DR1, hope

Como estas? la letra "s" implica el tu, esto lo usamos en conversaciones con amigos, familia, conversaciones diarias, etc.
Como esta? implica usted, mas formal.
Como esta usted? recontra formal, por ejemplo, con el presidente de tu compañia, si quieres causar una muy buena impresion......

One other aspect I forgot to mention in my first response was without you saying where you are from I knew right away because of your usage of recontra. That usage recontra formal is so Peruvian in my observation. Not to say it is not heard in other countries (especially South America) but it is definitely Peruvian the usage of that prefix. In other regions re is more common. For example, rebueno.

Spanish has a lot regional markers and this example is one of them. I hear it from my Peruvian friends all the time and I also read a lot of Jaime Bayly which is typical of his speech.



https://www.fundeu.es/recomendacion/recontra-re-rete-requete-requetecontra-prefijo/


-MP.