You think this only happens here?

[suarezn]

"
Son of a gun......a 90%+ success rate! My gosh, such statistics! Your town must be burgeoning then with "standing lines only" to get in those yolas. Hard to imagine how they keep that secret so well........ooopsss...hope they don't get mad at you for letting their "cash cow" secret out! With all that success it must be like a daily floating armada through the Mona Channel with all that success to be obtained!

Not every day, but I do know for fact that at least twice a month. Of course this is only a surprise to those who live in their bubble and all they know is what they read on the papers and hear from other expats...which would be OK if you weren't trying to state such things as fact (like you really know what's going on).

...and don't worry about people getting mad about this secret. What secret? Again it's not a secret to Dominicans. Plus they are too busy trying to make it to Puerto Rico to be reading this forum...

 

[dms3611]

"Plus they are too busy trying to make it to Puerto Rico to be reading this forum..."

Exactly, the operative word you used is "try".

The second reason why they are not reading this forum is that they typically cannot read English ....which is another reason why there is no real "success" for any of these folks that actually do make it to the states since they can't speak English or communicate effectively and are not educated (I mean , next thing we know you will tell me that these 90%+ success rate people are all doctors, lawyers, nurses, engineers, etc.that all speak English and just can't get a break in the DR). All these "yola" refugees find in the U.S. is work for someone that will risk their company or individual self being prosecuted for supporting these "illegals" which means "underground" work activities for which NO ONE is willing to pay them anything meaningful. So, they end up in NY and Boston living 30 people in an apartment, fearing all the time for discovery AND CANNOT make any REAL money until they turn to illegal activities in drugs, theft, etc. That is the way it is. The jails in U.S. have many of these these success stories just waiting to be returned to the DR. I know it was different "years ago" when grandpa got to the states and was able to make a success in a legitimate, bring yourself up by the bootstraps method ...but not today. If "success" just means getting money no matter how you do it....and then returning to the DR to tell eveyone that they earned it "legitimately" (since no one in the DR wants to tell you they earned it anyway but that) by setting up a successful construction or window washing company that made 1 million dollars in a couple years (which again is never correct because it never happens that way either in the U.S) then that "success" does occur from time to time and they get back home to the DR with a "big wad" in their pocket.

P.S. There are real statistics that are kept by the U.S. coastguard about intercepted "boats" going into PR. They also extrapolate how many slipped by. There is no denying that many folks do slip by and enter the PR. This does not mean that as was originally posted that this activity makes for the "success" these desparate folks are attempting to obtain....and those organizing, swindling, and living off these folks desparate hopes are opportunists with no heart.

 

[suarezn]

Well, now you're getting into a different topic altogether. Success my friend is relative. I know you don't consider working for low wages in an "illegal" job a success, but why don't you talk to the people who made it to The US and ask them if they are better off now or when they were back in The DR? Oh wait, I forgot...you don't know any of these people.

Anyhow, if you were making the equivalent of 100-150 USD a month in The DR working 6 days a week in a rice field and you come to The US and start making 6 USD an hour washing dishes would you say your life improved for the better? Is that a success?

...Then there are those people who get into illegal activities, which make tons of money (with the obvious associated risks)...Yet another topic altogether.

Coast guard statistics? You gotta be joking. I'll give you a tangible statistic, not just some numbers a department dreams up to maintain its budget; Just go to New York city, Philadelphia, Miami, Boston, Rhode Island, Puerto Rico, etc and see how many Dominicans are living there...How many of those made it here with an actual legal visa? How many came through a yola? How many just got here this last year alone?

Look, nobody is debating that people get ripped off...But to say that the great majority of these trips fail shows ignorance about these trips...If you want to see it in real life, get yourself 45,000 pesos and some courage, come to my town and you'll be in Puerto Rico in a matter of days.

 

[Chip]

I have two family members who went to NY, one via a student visa that has expired and the other by yola. Everyone here in the DR thinks they have made it, working for US500 a week in the big apple. They don't mention a whole lot about the fact that they have to stay with family and don't pay rent or food not that they will probably never see them again unless they get deported. The US is not what it was 10 years ago, people just don't go there illegally and "make it" anymore.

 

[dms3611]

"If you want to see it in real life, get yourself 45,000 pesos and some courage, come to my town and you'll be in Puerto Rico in a matter of days."

Don't need to do that...if I did, I would just get on any of our 3 tugs and barges that ply the waters between the DR and the rest of the Caribbean and do it.

P.S. I do see it in real life. We are involved in the marine business and get to see the fines levied on the DR and ship owners etc. when these illegals try their "stow away" and other techniques.

 

[dms3611]

P.S.S. I have also experienced seeing the horror experienced by Dominican family members who lost someone close to them due to the scum sucking "managers" of these oft ill planned trips that end in additional pysical and/or financial disaster.

 

[Chirimoya]

Morality and legality aside, suarezn, how do you think you would you have felt if your loan had ended up funding your relative's death?

 

[SweetBabyJesus]

Morality and legality aside, suarezn, how do you think you would you have felt if your loan had ended up funding your relative's death?

Good question. Let's see how the spin-masters (Dominican-Yorks) answer it.

(Agreeing with Chiri is no surprise, but lately I've been seeing a new side of CCcc, and I must say I like it.)

Have you folks noticed that most Dominicans here equate "success" with making more $$ in the US? Even leaving the kids behind! What parenting?!

Promise the children PS3s and iPods, but where are those nurturing moments when the poor kid needs her mom? Oh, but mom's in Nuebayol haciendo cuaito!

No wonder the "successful" ones who didn't leave the island hold the nouveaux riches Dom-Yorkies in low regards - unfair, I know, even when attaching a couldn't-hack-it-here label to them.

Here's the deal, folks: Dominicans in general are obsessed with money. And it matters not how it is acquired.

Que fulano vino montao en un Yipet?n; mengano tiene una bodega en El Bronx; y que chiquiningo es un "computer executive" y tiene ma cuaito que tu y tu. And they even brag about it, and a lo cibae?o to boot, oblivious to the fact that mixing badly-spoken English with regional Dominican slangs renders them still-ignorant: pero e que tu no ve que vengo de lo paise, mi'jo? Vengo de Niu-Yoi, pap?! Y vengo montaaaaaao!

Folks, you should see the disdainful attitudes displayed by most Dom-Yorks as they exit the customs area at SDQ. It is something to write about one day. Observe their demeanor as they order the hard-working maletero around with that superior air that reeks of I'm-better-than-you, poor maletero. And pay attention how they contemptuously dismiss the cab drivers: NO QUIERO NINGUN TAXI (almost a NO-ME-JODAS or a NO-ME-JODAS in disguise), shouting it out while awaiting to be picked up by a family member.

This Dominican Vonnegut will write about the "Dominican Ob$e$$ion" one day.

There are decent Dominicans around. And thanks to the FSM for the likes of PIB and that Hoosier German girl from Santiago.

 

[Lambada]

Folks, you should see the disdainful attitudes displayed by most Dom-Yorks as they exit the customs area at SDQ. It is something to write about one day. Observe their demeanor as they order the hard-working maletero around with that superior air that reeks of I'm-better-than-you, poor maletero. And pay attention how they contemptuously dismiss the cab drivers: NO QUIERO NINGUN TAXI (almost a NO-ME-JODAS or a NO-ME-JODAS in disguise), shouting it out while awaiting to be picked up by a family member.

This Dominican Vonnegut will write about the "Dominican Ob$e$$ion" one day.

But that disdain or misuse of 'power' isn't really all that different from Dominicans who have never been Dominican-Yorks is it? I'm talking about bureaucrats, given a little bit of power, who wield it to put one over on 'ordinary' Dominicans, either to extract macuteo or just to demonstrate superiority. Or older children who can be seen ordering around their younger siblings like sergeant majors.

People can be obsessed about what they don't have - whether it is power, money, couth, youth, looks, etc. but at the end of the day isn't that sort of obsession more about feeling unhappy with the self, for whatever reason? The real lack is within, not without.

And.............Kurt lived until 84 so you've plenty of time to produce an opus on the obsession.............

 

[Chris]

And here is a very topical article from the new york times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/22/us/22deport.html

 

[suarezn]

"
P.S. I do see it in real life. We are involved in the marine business and get to see the fines levied on the DR and ship owners etc. when these illegals try their "stow away" and other techniques.

OK, I finally see what your problem is with all this. You're either bitter because you've been fined or is involved in the bizz yourself and is afraid it's all going to come out...Come on and tell us the real truth...

Have you folks noticed that most Dominicans here equate "success" with making more $$ in the US? Even leaving the kids behind! What parenting?!

Here's the deal, folks: Dominicans in general are obsessed with money. And it matters not how it is acquired.

Sweetbabyjesus: I won't even get into a discussion with you as I see from your comments that you're just another one of these people who stereotype Dominicans. No wonder you agree with Crisco. What are you saying? Are you a better parent than me? Should Dominicans stay in The DR and not strive to get a better life? You guys are obviously full of Shyte if you tell me you wouldn't do the same if you were in the same situation It is easy to speak when you don't have to live it...

Chip: What are you trying to say buddy? Put down that Presidente...or at least save me one.

Chiri: Believe it or not I'm actually completely against giving people money to go on these trips (Trust me I have many friends and family who have asked me to help them do this), because I wouldn't want to carry in my conscience the fact that some relative of mine died with my help. The case I mentioned I loaned the money to this guy actually unknowingly that he was going to use it for that purpose. With my story I was just trying to illustrate the fact that unlike what dms3611 said that MOST of these trips fail, it's the opposite and MOST of them actually make it (meaning they land in Puerto Rico). Since then they've wanted to turn this thread into do they actually "make it" (meaning are they successful?) a different topic altogether IMO.

 

[Chirimoya]

Chiri: Believe it or not I'm actually completely against giving people money to go on these trips (Trust me I have many friends and family who have asked me to help them do this), because I wouldn't want to carry in my conscience the fact that some relative of mine died with my help. The case I mentioned I loaned the money to this guy actually unknowingly that he was going to use it for that purpose.

I'm not surprised to hear that. It's more consistent with the impression I have of you.

 

[Chip]

Chip: What are you trying to say buddy? Put down that Presidente...or at least save me one.

The first cold one is on me here in Santiago. As far as what I am trying to say, I think it really is a lot more difficult today to make it in the US. Did you see the news report in Arizona? The immigrants are leaving en masse because of the new law passed by the State that requires businesses to prove the citizenship of their employees or they have to fire them. You will see this start to happen in other States too. As far as my nephew goes, what is so disappointing about his case is that he is intelligent and was in his second year studying medicine at UTESA, now he is cleaning floors and stocking a bodega. His parents, good Christain people that they are practically made him go thinking that the youth in the US are so much better than the youth he was hanging around with in Moca. Granted, they weren't angels, just teenage boys who like to get together with chicas and put down a few bipes. Can anyone honestly tell me that the youth in NY city are that much better? I think not, especially the crowd he will hang with, mostly illegals. The worst thing may be that this kid has a history of kidney problems.

 

[Criss Colon]

This Thread "Speakes" Volumes About How Dominicans "Think", (Is THAT An OXYMORON ?)

They are "SOOOOOOOOO Proud" that SOOOOOOOOOOOOO Many Dominicans come to the USA "Illegally"! Now THAT is "Something" to take pride in!!!
How about "WHY" do thsy come???
Maybe,Just Maybe, it is because their country is a "Failure"!
They should put a sign at the "Airport"; "Would The Last Dominican To Leave, Please Turn Out The Lights!"
"Oh!" how stupid of me, The "Lights" go out by themselves here!!!!!
Why is it that the Dominicans who have chosen to live in the USA,are the most vocal about ANY criticism about their "Abandoned" homeland???
Must like the "FREEBIES" in the USA!!!???
"Ya Think!"
I just LOVE when I am attacked personally about my "Lifestyle"!
Must mean that my "Criticisms" about the DR are "Spot On"! Can't attack my ideas?? Well then Attack me!!
Keep 'Em coming!
Just to prove a "POINT"!
Last night I took a friend down to the "Malecon" for some "Excitement"!
We had our pick of 100s of "Local Beauties"! I was not "exactly" "In-The-Mood",as I had been eating and drinking since 6:30. He soon found a suitable selection,and went to the "Apartment" that "Swarzen" spoke of in an earlier post.While he and the young lady were exchanging "Pleasantries",I dozed on the couch.I am "61" you know,and my usual "Bedtime" is about 9 pm!
Anyway,the longer they spent on "Pleasentries",the more I wished I had brought a "Friend" for me! Waht COULD I Do???
Well,"Ladies & Gentlemen", I have know my friend for about 45 years,and what do "Old Friends" do??..That's Right! They Share!!
I "popped" a quick "VIAGRA",and "Waited My Turn"!
On her way to the bathroom,I asked the young'"Entrepeneur" if she could possibly "Squeeeeze" me in??? She thought for about a milli-second,smiled and said; "Porque no!"
Now, I realized that a "Twofer" would be asking TOO much,but I also know that a Dominican will do just about ANYTHING for a "Peso",(Except Hard Work!)
With THAT information in mind,I proposed giving her half of what my friend had paid!I told her how beautiful she was,and that I only had #$@ Pesos with me,because I had to buy medicine for my "sick mother","THAT!" she understood!
We went into the bedroom and played "Judge Advacate General". She sat on my lap,and I gave her an "Honorable Discharge"!!!!!!!!!
And "people" wonder why I love this Country Soooooooo Much!???????
Actually, I would take a "YOLA" to get "TOO" the DR!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
Don't forget to "VOTE"!
For those "Reputation Points" I mean!!
My "Slogan",... "Vote For Me, and I'll Take You Too The "Malecon next time"!

 

[IslandDreaming]

No Higher Education for you

The first cold one is on me here in Santiago. As far as what I am trying to say, I think it really is a lot more difficult today to make it in the US. Did you see the news report in Arizona? The immigrants are leaving en masse because of the new law passed by the State that requires businesses to prove the citizenship of their employees or they have to fire them. You will see this start to happen in other States too. As far as my nephew goes, what is so disappointing about his case is that he is intelligent and was in his second year studying medicine at UTESA, now he is cleaning floors and stocking a bodega. His parents, good Christain people that they are practically made him go thinking that the youth in the US are so much better than the youth he was hanging around with in Moca. Granted, they weren't angels, just teenage boys who like to get together with chicas and put down a few bipes. Can anyone honestly tell me that the youth in NY city are that much better? I think not, especially the crowd he will hang with, mostly illegals. The worst thing may be that this kid has a history of kidney problems.

What is becoming very evident is the large number of children of illegal Immigrants that find they are ineligible for loans or grants to go to college

These kids do well in High School and all of a sudden, no college for you

This is a terrible waste of good hard working students who were actually misled by their parents

 

[johne]

Now I ask you folks....

why would any decent Dominican want gringos like this in THEIR country??
I am sure his response will be -"There are no decent Dominicans"

 

[IslandDreaming]

Not being able to freely travel

why would any decent Dominican want gringos like this in THEIR country??
I am sure his response will be -"There are no decent Dominicans"

John;

You must have been creating your post as I made mine, I can't think of anything in my post you would find derogatory to Dominicans unless it was my less than admirable thoughts of illegal Dominican (And many other groups, it is not only Dominicans) parents that "forget" to tell their children that High School will likely be the end of the line in the USA no matter how hard they work or how bright they are

As someone else said, illegals are leaving by bus loads in Arizona from new reporting requirements; soon it will be back to the "old days" when an illegal will only find employment in the fields and live in hidden housing to escape "Homeland Security"

I don't advocate illegal immigration but I do support a system where disadvantaged people can become documented citizens and live in the US if they so desire

I never realized how fortunate we are in the USA until I traveled through Europe with a South African friend of mine: what a pain. Need a Visa here, none needed her, just plain can't enter here, it's nuts

We traveled through Romania to Croatia, had to skip Bosnia, could not enter Albania..we traveled about 1000 extra kilometers due to age old rules

Most US citizens look at the inability of Dominicans to travel as an "inconvenience," they have no idea of the degradation to their spirit and economic obstacles it poses for them to compete in our so called "Global Society"

 

[A.Hidalgo]

John;

You must have been creating your post as I made mine, I can't think of anything in my post you would find derogatory to Dominicans Security"

I think Johne was referring to Criss Colon's post, before yours and btw its a good question.

 

[Lambada]

Most US citizens look at the inability of Dominicans to travel as an "inconvenience," they have no idea of the degradation to their spirit and economic obstacles it poses for them to compete in our so called "Global Society"

I wonder if people who get hot under the collar about the illegal immigration issue (not you IslandDreaming but it is a subject which can raise the passions of some) could sit back a moment and think of these people as economic refugees? Pretty much in the same way that political refugees or religious refugees are considered. It might lessen the heat.........?

There is an irony, isn't there, when so many baby boomers are seeking to leave the US & Europe for places like the Caribbean, yet encounter no difficulties in moving here to the DR, whilst Dominicans (& others) have to go through hoops to get into the US. And then there are those of us with UK/European passports who could easily get into the US but currently choose not to for political or philosophical reasons.

Life, as always, is not fair to some.

 

[Berzin]

What is becoming very evident is the large number of children of illegal Immigrants that find they are ineligible for loans or grants to go to college

These kids do well in High School and all of a sudden, no college for you

This is a terrible waste of good hard working students who were actually misled by their parents

The US only wants these ethnic groups to succeed if they are entertaining us via music or sports. If they want to work hard to get a piece of the pie then there will be legislation to block their advance.

And these kids were not misled by their parents-they were misled by a country that wants to keep them marginalized so that we have a permanent underclass to pick our fruit and clean our toilets.