Nuria on Electricity case

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
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Privileged Edesur client, Euclides Gutierrez

On Saturday's edition of her investigative TV program, journalist Nuria Piera told the story of PLD politician Euclides Gutierrez who owes RD$3.6 million in past electricity consumption bills to EdeSur, but the company has not disconnected his service, despite a four-year dispute. Gutierrez, who holds the post of Superintendent of Insurance in the Fernandez administration, is demanding RD$2.5 million compensation for diesel purchases and maintenance expenses for his 20, 30 and 50kw power plants, as he explained in a letter to Nuria Piera.

On her program, Nuria Piera doubts a legal case is in process. She said that the legal appeal was addressed to Edesur and not to Protecom and it has not moved from what would be the first level of claim.

She reported that Protecom has resolved 121,700 cases, but has yet to receive any appeal from Gutierrez.

The Gutierrez claim is based on Art. 93 in the Electricity Law 125-01 that establishes that power distribution companies need to compensate final users for electricity not served. "If all users that receive blackouts made this claim, then Edesur would have to be closed," said Piera. Gutierrez placed his claim on 14 December 2006 complaining about blackouts.

Piera pointed out that Gutierrez Felix is receiving privileged treatment from Edesur. "Any other user who does not pay for the service will be cut off, but not this one," she said. She presented the case of a neighbor of Gutierrez whose service was disconnected the day after he did not pay for the service.

On her show, Piera highlighted: "Gutierrez Felix continues to receive regular service, and his meter No. 4106545 shows a last reading RD$33,852.25 and accumulated debt of RD$3,606,999.99 but they do not cut off his service," said Piera.


From the DR1 news front page.









Nuria must really upgrade her staff a bit with thin one!

By activating the claim based on Art. 93 of the Electricity Law 125-01 Gutierrez safeguarded his claim and service under the protection afforded by the law.

The electrical supply can not only be shut down to his premises in the disputed claim, but the arrears are not allowed to be charged late penalties or interest.

Another aspect that escapes Nuria, is that when you file the claim based on the article for the consumer protection, you also MUST make a guarantee deposit in said protective claim system.

I know this because I had done this same thing not less than two times with properties in the DR.



If all users that receive blackouts made this claim, then Edesur would have to be closed," said Piera.

She couldn't be any more right with this statement! If more users understood their rights under the same article of the electricity Law, either the service would be greatly improve or Edesur not see a penny for unserved services.
But the reality is that most Dominicans don't do a thing about it other than complain and those that carry out the Law's protective mechanism are few and far in between.

The saddest part is that she opts to attack and somehow shame the Gutierrez for using their law given rights as the "preferential" treatment people.

Nuria should really get a lawyer that knows about the law first in her staff, instead of making such type of libel accusations as some sort of special treatment by the company to Gutierrez.

I hope that after his attempt to show her the validity of his claim, and showing how she still claims is preferential treatment, he suits her for libel and damages to his public name.


Instead Nuria should be teaching other average Dominicans how to make use of the law and not turning her program into another "Springer" show.
 

Hillbilly

Moderator
Jan 1, 2002
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Now that is good advice. I wish I know just how this works. I have 3600 hours on my 0 hour 20 kva diesel genset. That is close to 3000 gallons of diesel, several hundred gallons of oil and dozens of filters.

Interesting...

HB
 

windeguy

Platinum
Jul 10, 2004
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Exactly how does one file such a complaint against Edenorte?

I was aware that there was a clause in the law the the power company is in breach of contract when they have blackouts.

How exactly do you file suit against them?

It would be my pleasure to contribute to Edenorte going out of business.
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
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Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
For those that want to know how it works, you must hire a lawyer and let him be the one to file the claim for you. At any given point if you contact the company directly after the claim, the mechanism in the article that protect the consumer is lost.

There are no "alike" cases in the claims, each claim can't petition under the same demand simply because they're not based on "blackouts" but the effects of cronic or out of the average situations.

My first claim was when the majority of electric based items in my second office got fried, because the power output from a transformer that serviced our lines was faulty.
The constant number of times my backup power have to kick in to hold the service steady because of that, was increased exponentially and required stepped up maintenance and expenditures based on it.

All the loses were repaid and the extreme tear, wear and expenditures deducted from our final bill (which we didn't need pay whilst the claim was open and contended by our lawyers).

The second one was in one of the investment properties, where just like Gutierrez, the service was never rendered and ended up with not only 2 power generators kicking the bucket, but also high bills on fuels delivered due to distance and location.

In both cases we won the claims and on both cases the bills didn't get paid and the services never turned off whilst in process.

Believe it or not, the same contract the biller uses to "suck you up dry", also works the other way around when properly employed.

This is not something you can go ahead and do yourself ( I tried and got burned the first time) but with a good lawyer's office with the experience behind it.
 

DMV123

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Mar 31, 2010
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Ok so then 98% of people can't do this a they don't have "special" circumstances or maybe cannot afford the lawyer to file the claim.

So it helps just a very few people it seems.

Last week the electricity came back one night and my A/C and the entire 220 line blew! Can I go after them?

Due to constant blackouts I cannot get all my work done in a timely manner. I work from home? Can I go after them????? What if I lose my job? Then can I???

I don't mean to be sarcastic. I think the information you have offered is useful. I want to understand it better.
 

windeguy

Platinum
Jul 10, 2004
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More clarification is required about suing Edenorte

Pichardo. I understand from your response that a good lawyer is needed and that we cannot complain again after the legal process is started.

Now, can this process be started and won simply because Edenorte does not supply 24/7 power?
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
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Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
Ok so then 98% of people can't do this a they don't have "special" circumstances or maybe cannot afford the lawyer to file the claim.

So it helps just a very few people it seems.

Last week the electricity came back one night and my A/C and the entire 220 line blew! Can I go after them?

Due to constant blackouts I cannot get all my work done in a timely manner. I work from home? Can I go after them????? What if I lose my job? Then can I???

I don't mean to be sarcastic. I think the information you have offered is useful. I want to understand it better.

Answer: Anybody is able to file a claim always that's not based on "apagones" but "chronic" or "unusual" events that are out of what the average service rates. In fact 100% is eligible to place a claim, but not 100% have a valid claim to one.

If the entire 220v line got fried, along with the A/C, your first recourse was the inform the utility about the surge and take pictures. If a crew didn't come by the house to inspect the damages, the pictures were to be admissible with the claim filed later.

The costs involved in fixing the damages to the line and the replacement for the A/C would also be included as evidence of the problem

In both cases you had a claim! A surge that's able to fry a 220v line is not a joke and considered an "special" circumstance for claims. 110v have power issues of up and down conditions that seldom make the claims worth.

Loss income from the power generated issues is also compatible with the claims, in certain conditions, but rarely get compensated.

These are issues you have to talk with the company on your first contact, if the report goes unanswered then you can use that for the claim.
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
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Pichardo. I understand from your response that a good lawyer is needed and that we cannot complain again after the legal process is started.

Now, can this process be started and won simply because Edenorte does not supply 24/7 power?

NO!

The conditions for breach of contract are stipulated in a way that regular service blackouts considered average are not covered.

Say you buy a home in Punta Cana, get a contract going with the company for service and the power is missing on an average of 70% + of the time, unlike the average for the area of minus 50%. Under that type of condition you have a claim for tear and wear, fuels expenditures on emergency stand by generators, etc...

Say your home is getting perfect service but a surge fries 70% of the household's electrical devices plugged in. The surge is considered unusual since 70% or more of the devices got "fried", indicating a surge beyond that established under the services contracted and absent from instructing the client that he must have self supplied protection for that event that's to eb expected as "regular" in service.

Power fluctuations of certain limits are covered under the contract (this part is filed under the local technical service paper with the city/municipality), but those not covered under these limits are considered to be the utility's responsibility first and foremost.

A 220v surge is a serious event, since arcing can happen and the damages be more than just material stuff.

Claims are filed when both the utility and client can't reach a compromise in the issue. Once the claim is done, the client CAN'T contact the utility in reference to that claim and only via the claim representative.

When there's a discrepancy in charges based on claims (or others) the client must file the claim and the amount owed will become contended, the claim will require the client to deposit an amount into an account in most claims filed. This is why the utility is ok with the client not paying the amount in claim under normal billing cycles. Regardless of the claim, the new charges not related to interests or late payments on the contested amount, must be paid as normal. The bill will always show the owed debt plus the new charges as that's how the billing system works.
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
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Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
Pichardo. I understand from your response that a good lawyer is needed and that we cannot complain again after the legal process is started.

Now, can this process be started and won simply because Edenorte does not supply 24/7 power?

There's no "suing" but filing a "claim" via the mechanism of the law.

And no to the last question. It all depends on each claim's issues with the contract. If you average is on par with the area, then you have no claim.
 
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Chirimoya

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2002
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Pichardo, of all places, why do you give the example of Punta Cana when this area is serviced by CEPM and not the EdEs, and more importantly, apagones are virtually non-existent?
 

DMV123

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Mar 31, 2010
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PICHARDO - thank you for informative and useful posts! I appreciate the information.

In my case it is too late. The situation did occur and it cost me big time. Should something like this happen again at least I know how to handle it.

Thank you again.
 

windeguy

Platinum
Jul 10, 2004
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On par pi$$ poor service does not allow a claim? Only in the DR.

There's no "suing" but filing a "claim" via the mechanism of the law.

And no to the last question. It all depends on each claim's issues with the contract. If you average is on par with the area, then you have no claim.

It is good to know that if surges damage equipment that a claim could be filed.

I am on a Class C line where everyone in our development must pay the normal full price for electricity and on time or be disconnected within days. The locals on the same class C circuit pay 200 pesos monthly or connect to the power illegally and don't pay. That causes our circuit to be off much more than people to either side of our development who are on a class A circuit. We have petitioned Edenorte to connect us to a Class A circuit that is very close to our development and they have refused.

But if I understand you correctly, because we are on a class C circuit, the norm is set by the people that get either almost free electricity or steal it, hence the class C status, and we are not eligible to file a claim that would be successful against Edenorte?

If so, this is another "Only in the DR" situation.
 

Chip

Platinum
Jul 25, 2007
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With all due respect Pichardo, if you think the average Joe businessman could get away Gutierrez is doing, whether dizque legal or not, you are nuts - and I mean that in a nice sort of way. :)
 

bachata

Aprendiz de todo profesional de nada
Aug 18, 2007
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It is good to know that if surges damage equipment that a claim could be filed.

You won't get pay, remember EDES (Norte,SUR,Este) are not the owners of the transmission lines they are power generators who sells the energy and make the big money.
CDE (Corporacion Dominicana de electricidad) is responssable for the well maintenance of the circuits and this one is government owned.

Don't waste your time and money!

JJ
 

windeguy

Platinum
Jul 10, 2004
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You won't get pay, remember EDES (Norte,SUR,Este) are not the owners of the transmission lines they are power generators who sells the energy and make the big money.
CDE (Corporacion Dominicana de electricidad) is responssable for the well maintenance of the circuits and this one is government owned.

Don't waste your time and money!

JJ

I did realize that this is an "Only in the DR" situation.
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
13,280
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Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
It is good to know that if surges damage equipment that a claim could be filed.

I am on a Class C line where everyone in our development must pay the normal full price for electricity and on time or be disconnected within days. The locals on the same class C circuit pay 200 pesos monthly or connect to the power illegally and don't pay. That causes our circuit to be off much more than people to either side of our development who are on a class A circuit. We have petitioned Edenorte to connect us to a Class A circuit that is very close to our development and they have refused.

But if I understand you correctly, because we are on a class C circuit, the norm is set by the people that get either almost free electricity or steal it, hence the class C status, and we are not eligible to file a claim that would be successful against Edenorte?

If so, this is another "Only in the DR" situation.

The "average" is set by your circuit class. The better the circuit the stronger your claim chances!

And yes! That's another "Only in the DR" situation.
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
13,280
893
113
Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
With all due respect Pichardo, if you think the average Joe businessman could get away Gutierrez is doing, whether dizque legal or not, you are nuts - and I mean that in a nice sort of way. :)

Not only did I win my two claims *well almost 100%* but my sister also did when their house electrical devices got fried in Reparto Monumental before they moved, when a transformer that was faulty for months got crazy and did what they do in the DR "go kamikaze".

Not only the bill for the all their stuff got paid, but the added expenses and wear on their backup power generators and inverter as well.

In biz I know of more than 5 people with large accounts that did the same as Gutierrez! It's a fact!

That most people don't even know about it is also a fact!

That's why we have DR1 for! No?