Why is Bachata considered a "classless" music and merengue considered elite or highclass music. Before merengue became the national music (thanks to Trujillo), it was considered classless music, no class, now it's elite. Bachata now is considered a classless music but is becoming more popular worldwide. Let's start this debate in your best opinion why is Bachata a classless or elite?
- Thread starter Guatiao
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Bachata- The new "Elite" music!!
In my opinion
In my opinion, I have recently enjoyed Bachata more than merengue, Merengue is becoming very repetitive and artists have "soldout", the lyrics are just party lyrics, they have no feeling, no meaning, the bands seemed to be produced by the same person, there are few standout artists (ie Sergio Vargas, Juan Luis Guerra, Eddy Herrera). New Merengue artists can't make a new hit all "new hits" are remakes from the 1970s and classics. Bachata on the other hand with groups like Aventura and Nueva Era are becoming quite popular among everybody in the States and Europe, not just in DR anymore. Bachata lyrics and rhythms has alot of emotions and movement, 20 years from now, I believe it will be the one and only National Dominican Music or at least the Music of the People.
In my opinion, I have recently enjoyed Bachata more than merengue, Merengue is becoming very repetitive and artists have "soldout", the lyrics are just party lyrics, they have no feeling, no meaning, the bands seemed to be produced by the same person, there are few standout artists (ie Sergio Vargas, Juan Luis Guerra, Eddy Herrera). New Merengue artists can't make a new hit all "new hits" are remakes from the 1970s and classics. Bachata on the other hand with groups like Aventura and Nueva Era are becoming quite popular among everybody in the States and Europe, not just in DR anymore. Bachata lyrics and rhythms has alot of emotions and movement, 20 years from now, I believe it will be the one and only National Dominican Music or at least the Music of the People.
Otra vez...
Voy a poner mis dos centavos en breve porque este tema ya se repitio varias veces pero bueno....
I still highly respect merengue and yes it's on the downside "hoy en dia" but that's because all the traditionally good artists and bands have gone on hiatus or have lost their marketability. Those bands need to make a come back if merengue is going make a come back. The bands I am talking about are:
1) Jossie Esteban (y la patrulla 15). "creo que la patrulla se fue".
2) Los Hermanos Rosario- honestly they have done their share in my opinion. 25 years and more. That's incomparable. Que se respete.
3) Rubby Perez- he just released a new album called "Tonto Corazon". I have it, I have not listened to it yet but I hope it's good. But in general he usually delivers, his past three albums have been superb!
4) Tono Rosario- he needs to return to producing merengues like he did in the 90's. He has some great albums. My gems are: Retorno a las raices, Amor Jollao & Me olvide de vivir. Those are some great albums. He needs to stop producing "this new fly by night merengue" because it's not going to last. And anyone who knows about merengue knows that "el cuquito del alma" has talent.
5) Los Toros Band- another group in my opinion that has done their part and are still holding strong.
6) No more PR merengue. Honestly it is driving me crazy! It's a shame that merengue has moved to the rival island. Eso no me gusta. The sound is different, it will never sound authentically Dominican.
Those are the artists (1-5) that I am looking to in order to revive merengue. I still love it to listen and dance to but the older stuff...es para bailar la noche entera.
Bachata..here I go again. Anyone who has seen my previous post knows where I stand with bachata. I love it, I love the big players. I don't like Spanglish bachata or Spanglish anything. It's the popular genre now but I am not quite ready to say that it is the "elite music" as stated by Capodominicano. Personally, Nueva Era and Aventura don't impress me. I like the more experienced bachateros like:
Raulin Rodriguez, Antony Santos, Joe Veras, Frank Reyes, Alex Bueno and El Chaval de la bachata. There are more artists but the ones I mentioned are my personal favorites and I think they have staying power. Each has a unique style. Basically it's the listener's choice.
Lesley D
Voy a poner mis dos centavos en breve porque este tema ya se repitio varias veces pero bueno....
I still highly respect merengue and yes it's on the downside "hoy en dia" but that's because all the traditionally good artists and bands have gone on hiatus or have lost their marketability. Those bands need to make a come back if merengue is going make a come back. The bands I am talking about are:
1) Jossie Esteban (y la patrulla 15). "creo que la patrulla se fue".
2) Los Hermanos Rosario- honestly they have done their share in my opinion. 25 years and more. That's incomparable. Que se respete.
3) Rubby Perez- he just released a new album called "Tonto Corazon". I have it, I have not listened to it yet but I hope it's good. But in general he usually delivers, his past three albums have been superb!
4) Tono Rosario- he needs to return to producing merengues like he did in the 90's. He has some great albums. My gems are: Retorno a las raices, Amor Jollao & Me olvide de vivir. Those are some great albums. He needs to stop producing "this new fly by night merengue" because it's not going to last. And anyone who knows about merengue knows that "el cuquito del alma" has talent.
5) Los Toros Band- another group in my opinion that has done their part and are still holding strong.
6) No more PR merengue. Honestly it is driving me crazy! It's a shame that merengue has moved to the rival island. Eso no me gusta. The sound is different, it will never sound authentically Dominican.
Those are the artists (1-5) that I am looking to in order to revive merengue. I still love it to listen and dance to but the older stuff...es para bailar la noche entera.
Bachata..here I go again. Anyone who has seen my previous post knows where I stand with bachata. I love it, I love the big players. I don't like Spanglish bachata or Spanglish anything. It's the popular genre now but I am not quite ready to say that it is the "elite music" as stated by Capodominicano. Personally, Nueva Era and Aventura don't impress me. I like the more experienced bachateros like:
Raulin Rodriguez, Antony Santos, Joe Veras, Frank Reyes, Alex Bueno and El Chaval de la bachata. There are more artists but the ones I mentioned are my personal favorites and I think they have staying power. Each has a unique style. Basically it's the listener's choice.
Lesley D
Elite?
Def; Elite= A group or class of persons or a member of such a group or class, enjoying superior intellectual, social, or economic status.
Another question; What do you considered to be "Elite" within a musical genre? {Lyrics, Rhythms, Artists,etc.}
Never said elite, ask a question why is it labeled as "classless" music and not labeled "elite" music. Merengue came from the gutter and stormed the caribbean, now why can't some people imagine the same with Bachata? I mean after all Bachata is currently more popular, among teens and adults.Lesley D said:
Def; Elite= A group or class of persons or a member of such a group or class, enjoying superior intellectual, social, or economic status.
Another question; What do you considered to be "Elite" within a musical genre? {Lyrics, Rhythms, Artists,etc.}
Thanks for the clarification
Thanks for the clarification with regards to the word "elite" but my response stills stands bachata has along way to go although it's popular among the masses before it will be truly considered the new "elite" music (if ever). There are a lot of Dominicans who don't listen to bachata for many reasons. One can be because of it's history and associations, the other simply being personal preference. Maybe we need a modern day Trujillo to change the preferences of the masses. I think merengue will rule for a long while although lately it has not lived up to it's splendor.
Your 2nd question: what do I consider to be "elite"?
D?jame pensarlo, luego te contesto.
LDG
Thanks for the clarification with regards to the word "elite" but my response stills stands bachata has along way to go although it's popular among the masses before it will be truly considered the new "elite" music (if ever). There are a lot of Dominicans who don't listen to bachata for many reasons. One can be because of it's history and associations, the other simply being personal preference. Maybe we need a modern day Trujillo to change the preferences of the masses. I think merengue will rule for a long while although lately it has not lived up to it's splendor.
Your 2nd question: what do I consider to be "elite"?
D?jame pensarlo, luego te contesto.
LDG
capodominicano said:
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Didnt MOST music start underground somehow? Blues to jazz, perico ripio to merengue, rap to Hip Hop and so forth and so on... So bachata and merengue did the same, no surprise there.
As far as the elite question, that has been a sore subject for many here (I hate it altogether). The conversations about class, eliteness, and being a chopo go hand in hand here and usually end up with the same people posting on how they consider themselves better than the masses.
Liking music is about personal taste. I can be the Queen of England and if I like bachata, I like bachata. No one with or without more class than me can tell me what I like and dont like to listen to. If someone is an individual with some kind of personal power, they will go against the 'elite' frame of thought and they will be themselves - that may mean listening to bachata if they feel like it.
As far as the elite question, that has been a sore subject for many here (I hate it altogether). The conversations about class, eliteness, and being a chopo go hand in hand here and usually end up with the same people posting on how they consider themselves better than the masses.
Liking music is about personal taste. I can be the Queen of England and if I like bachata, I like bachata. No one with or without more class than me can tell me what I like and dont like to listen to. If someone is an individual with some kind of personal power, they will go against the 'elite' frame of thought and they will be themselves - that may mean listening to bachata if they feel like it.
Yo tambi?n..I will like what I like
Of course, I think at the end of the day "personal preference" should be the most important and only factor but somehow with bachata liking it seems to spark controversy.
Of course, I think at the end of the day "personal preference" should be the most important and only factor but somehow with bachata liking it seems to spark controversy.
Talldrink said:
Well said, Talldrink...
Lesley,
I'm with you when it comes to Puerto Rican merengue: same rythm, ALL the time.
They get too much credit for 'slowing' it down. But those credit-givers weren't listening to the likes of Bonny Cepeda.
Also, I just heard a classic tune from Ram?n Gallardo, titled "Juan Gomero." It's as slow as they get, and it dates back to the early 1960s. How's THAT for PRicans "redefining" the genre lately? It's too bad Los Toros Band did not include that song in their tribute to Gallardo.
As far as bachata, Aventura is for "jevitos," the rest of us know the real deal: A. Santos; L. Vargas; J. Veras; Z. F.; F. Reyes; and even R. Rodr?guez.
By the way, you KNOW good salsa.
-Joseito
A chopo without a cell phone
Lesley,
I'm with you when it comes to Puerto Rican merengue: same rythm, ALL the time.
They get too much credit for 'slowing' it down. But those credit-givers weren't listening to the likes of Bonny Cepeda.
Also, I just heard a classic tune from Ram?n Gallardo, titled "Juan Gomero." It's as slow as they get, and it dates back to the early 1960s. How's THAT for PRicans "redefining" the genre lately? It's too bad Los Toros Band did not include that song in their tribute to Gallardo.
As far as bachata, Aventura is for "jevitos," the rest of us know the real deal: A. Santos; L. Vargas; J. Veras; Z. F.; F. Reyes; and even R. Rodr?guez.
By the way, you KNOW good salsa.
-Joseito
A chopo without a cell phone
You and I can get along. Feel free to chat with me with regards to all of the big 3 genres. I know them inside out- no joke. When I say the big 3 I mean:
Salsa, merengue and bachata.
Lesley D
Salsa, merengue and bachata.
Lesley D
thick_neck said:
Hey at least the Puertoricans are keeping up merengue by making new tunes...it doesn't matter if they are slowing it down (it can get a little boring after a while, i must admit it, but better this than nothing new). That's the good thing about merengue, there are many styles that have been brewed up along the years, with different rythims instruments, speed, etc. Today's merengue might not be that attractive as the bachata movement, but legendary merengues from 20-10 years ago will forever live in the memories of those who enjoyed it. My favorite merengue bands and singers of all time are: Cocoband, La gran manzana, EL zafiro, rokabanda, Aramis Camilo, Alex Bueno, Wifrido Vargas, Conjunto Quisqueya, and a few others.
Good choices
Oche,
I like your choices especially Cocoband and Rokabanda. When Cocoband was "hot" they were something else. I still like them and Pochy did put out an album in 2002 which was a good come back in my opinion. What I also like about Cocoband when they were popular was their versitality in terms of musical genres. Not only are they a great merengue band but their salsa and cha cha are good too. I agree with you in the meantime while merengue is on "hold' we have to "caminar hacia atras" and remember the good merengue that kept us moving for years. When it comes to Cocoband some songs that readily come to mind are:
Ya viene el lunes, La faldita, El toro en la capital, Rico y buen mozo. Those are some nice merengues indeed!
Oche,
I like your choices especially Cocoband and Rokabanda. When Cocoband was "hot" they were something else. I still like them and Pochy did put out an album in 2002 which was a good come back in my opinion. What I also like about Cocoband when they were popular was their versitality in terms of musical genres. Not only are they a great merengue band but their salsa and cha cha are good too. I agree with you in the meantime while merengue is on "hold' we have to "caminar hacia atras" and remember the good merengue that kept us moving for years. When it comes to Cocoband some songs that readily come to mind are:
Ya viene el lunes, La faldita, El toro en la capital, Rico y buen mozo. Those are some nice merengues indeed!
Oche said:
I started this thread for all those people that like to degrade Bachata, for no reason, explain why they feel this way and why they degrade the people that listen to Bachata, that ain't cool. Anyway I agree I don't like Puertorican Merengue what I dislike most is during latin grammys Kenito Mendez and other Dominican Merengueros asking the grammy voters from PR to give it to a Dominican. That is shameful. I personally like both genres but can't stand Salsa, it's so dead a shot of adrenaline and a lighting bolt strike can't revive it, at least that's my opinion. Also I don't want this thread to end like all the other threads regarding this topic.
What has happened to RikaRena? One of my favorite groups.
What has happened to RikaRena? One of my favorite groups.
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Capodominicano,
I can't tell you what happened to Rikarena but they disappeared slowly but surely. Their last album was in 2000 "Con arena nueva", quite a good one but they have not come back since. Mostly likely they experienced what other groups have lately. Just like a Rokabanda, also a Kinito Mendez creation and they eventually faded out.
I can't tell you what happened to Rikarena but they disappeared slowly but surely. Their last album was in 2000 "Con arena nueva", quite a good one but they have not come back since. Mostly likely they experienced what other groups have lately. Just like a Rokabanda, also a Kinito Mendez creation and they eventually faded out.
capodominicano said:
It Being dance Club Santo Domingo, and Espana?
Are the debutants dancing the bachata, then it has been accepted as a clasic music. I doubt that this has happen yet, this is still and class divide. When I lived there in mid eighties I never heard a bachata. I attended concerts. I have not seen introduced in any of the new movies as backgound tunes. Until I see this happening I would not consider it a main stream music.
My youngest daughter is a writer part time for punk music. the type of music you choose placed you into a soial class or click. In school as in society the type of music pegs you as the socioreconomic status. I have seen lawyers/social workers that change their appearance for work to appear "normal then on the weekend they are dress according to the style of the music they enjoy.
She also attend the House of Blues, she went to the last concert of Johnny Cash. Attends theatre productions.
Are the debutants dancing the bachata, then it has been accepted as a clasic music. I doubt that this has happen yet, this is still and class divide. When I lived there in mid eighties I never heard a bachata. I attended concerts. I have not seen introduced in any of the new movies as backgound tunes. Until I see this happening I would not consider it a main stream music.
My youngest daughter is a writer part time for punk music. the type of music you choose placed you into a soial class or click. In school as in society the type of music pegs you as the socioreconomic status. I have seen lawyers/social workers that change their appearance for work to appear "normal then on the weekend they are dress according to the style of the music they enjoy.
She also attend the House of Blues, she went to the last concert of Johnny Cash. Attends theatre productions.
Lesley D, Pochy from La Cocoband (Alfonso Vasquez) is one hell of an artist, did you know he wrote the lyrics for the legendary merengue "La negra pola" when he was just 13 years old?, that is talent.
Capodominicano, Boy! Rikarena was superb when it first came out back in 94...very catchy tunes!...i really had some good times listening to it!, great memories!...(still do BTW). Back in the mid 90's Kinito and Rikarena were rolling over every other merengue band that was around.
Capodominicano, Boy! Rikarena was superb when it first came out back in 94...very catchy tunes!...i really had some good times listening to it!, great memories!...(still do BTW). Back in the mid 90's Kinito and Rikarena were rolling over every other merengue band that was around.
For Merengue, you have to take into cosideration the average age of the DR (23). Obviously, its a country with a very young population. In my opinion, as a result inexperienced "musicians" or artist that have never taken singing classes or anything are coming up putting disgustingly horrible merengue out there. However, I think that as the masses of the DR become older, they will want to hear much more refined music. In response, the singers would start to fit that mold.
In my opinion, like everything Dominican, Merengue will come back with a big swing. The problem is to know how it will sound. When Merengue Perico Ripiao faded a bit, the Merengue made a come back with big bands, then it faded and here we are going through this noise pollution, though there are some singers that DO sing quite well. I said it before and I'll say it again, the School of Bellas Artes needs more funding and more attention if the people of the Dominican Republic want to develop a much more refined and indentifiable culture and/or Merengue as well.
In my opinion, like everything Dominican, Merengue will come back with a big swing. The problem is to know how it will sound. When Merengue Perico Ripiao faded a bit, the Merengue made a come back with big bands, then it faded and here we are going through this noise pollution, though there are some singers that DO sing quite well. I said it before and I'll say it again, the School of Bellas Artes needs more funding and more attention if the people of the Dominican Republic want to develop a much more refined and indentifiable culture and/or Merengue as well.