Is There Favoritism When Buying A House In The DR?

miguel

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A few days ago a friend of the family went to buy a house on a well-to-do neighorhood in the DR.

Our friend was raised with a silver spoon. He is now a lawyer and dresses very well and drives a nice car and has a stable life(meaning that when he went to buy the house, he was very presentable). Very well educated and so are his wife and 2 kids.

He was told that the house was sold already and that the new owners "will be moving in a day or two". He was sad but he understood.

My brother went to the DR a few days ago and our friend told my brother "let me show you the house that I wanted to buy but it was sold already". To his surprise, the "for sale" sign was still there and there were some "lookers" looking at the house. Now our friend is thinking that maybe they told him that it was sold because he is black. Who knows.

My brother was upset about it and decided to pretend that he was interested in the house and went with his wife "to make an offer". Not only was the house for sale, but he was told that he could have the house right then and there. He was also told that he was the only serious buyer that they had seen for weeks. Now our friend is sure that it is because of his color.

At the end of the "negotiation", my brother told them that HIS LAWYER would in touch with them "today". When they asked for his lawyer's name and phone number, my brother gave them our friend's business' card and told them, "that is my lawyer and while you are talking with him, make sure to tell him why you told him that the house was sold and that the new owners would be moving in a day or two when in fact the house was not sold". They were left with their mouths open and my brother just walked out!.

I have had a few bad experiences in the DR while trying to buy a house and an apartment but I have never felt like someone was playing favoritism with me.

I thought that when it came to money, there was no favoritism in the DR.

I really do not know if it has anything to do with his color or it was a matter of money. I am sure that they did not know that our friend has more money than my whole family and all my friends put together.

Is our friend wrong in thinking the way he is thinking?. I hope so!.
 

Pib

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Jan 1, 2002
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Where was he buying his house? Or was it an appartment?

Having negotiated and bought two appartments in my lifetime the only requisite I have found was needed to buy property, any property, so far is enough money. There is no such thing as "white-only" neighborhoods in Santo Domingo.

BUT, I have found the 'it's sold' trick before, in an effort to convince me to outbid the unexistent buyer. It didn't work though.
 

Toronto2inDR

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Agreed, I?ve had this play used on me over a car I wanted to buy about 6 months ago. I saw it and drove it and the price was not bad so when I went back to make my offer I was told that someone had the car out for a test drive and it looked like they?d be taking it.

I had a feeling that this was not true so I gave them my offer and said that I?ll wait for the test drivers to bring the car back. I was told that the people would be out with the car for a long time because they are very serious about buying it so right there I knew that they?re playing me. To make a long story short, the car is still on the lot today and the salesman just recently stopped calling me trying to get me back over there to pick it up.

Strange way to do biz I think.
 

MrMike

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Mar 2, 2003
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Everything you know about buying a used car can be applied to virtually any purchase (or rental) in the DR, especially real estate. There is always a mysterious "other buyer" who is even now on his way back from the bank with the money, or some reason the seller will try to hurry up the deal using the time-tested "fear of loss" technique.
 

miguel

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Pib said:
Where was he buying his house? Or was it an appartment?

Having negotiated and bought two appartments in my lifetime the only requisite I have found was needed to buy property, any property, so far is enough money. There is no such thing as "white-only" neighborhoods in Santo Domingo.

BUT, I have found the 'it's sold' trick before, in an effort to convince me to outbid the unexistent buyer. It didn't work though.
It was a house that he was trying to buy.

Maybe they wanted more money from him. It was at Arroyo Hondo. I am not saying that I feel that the race card was played, he is. The people that were selling the house was not a Real Estate but the owners themselves. He noticed that the wife would not even speak with him.

I will have to disagree with you, sometimes money is not enough. It's enough when the property owners do not have much money but when they are "loaded", they really would sell to whomever they see fit.
 

Robert

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Jan 2, 1999
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It sounds like obvious racism or "class discrimination" to me.

It happens all over the world and very much alive and kicking in the DR.
I see it often even on a restaurant and bar level here. Sorry, those tables are reserved for the ?non-existent? private party. What?s sad, is the guy ordered to deliver the message is often of the same class or color as the person receiving it.

Next to Japan, the DR is the most racially and class discriminate country I have lived and worked in. But these are topics for another day and on other websites...
 

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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Send them to me.

We're thinking of selling ours and we're in Arroyo Hondo.

Robert, feel free to zap if you have any objection.
 

miguel

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Ok!

Chirimoya said:
Send them to me.

We're thinking of selling ours and we're in Arroyo Hondo.

Robert, feel free to zap if you have any objection.
How big?. How much?. Send me a pm.

On my first thread(or was it a reply?), I mentioned that some (NOTE: SOME) dominicans are pretty rotten when it comes to their own people. Not only that some (NOTE: SOME) would talk very nasty about the DR, but they would discriminate against their own.

If our family friend was discriminated against, shame on them. He is truly a great person that comes from old money. The man dresses in suits every single day and his family have the "best of everything" and is very much respected in just about half of the country, so we are not talking about a "motoconchero". The poor man just wanted to buy another house so his wife can be closer to her mother.

I just hope that they sell the house to a real "tiguere" that would blast that darn bachata crap all day. On second thought, nah, since the neighbors should not pay for those morons stupidity!!.
 

NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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miguel said:
A few days ago a friend of the family went to buy a house on a well-to-do neighorhood in the DR.

Our friend was raised with a silver spoon. He is now a lawyer and dresses very well and drives a nice car and has a stable life(meaning that when he went to buy the house, he was very presentable). Very well educated and so are his wife and 2 kids.

He was told that the house was sold already and that the new owners "will be moving in a day or two". He was sad but he understood.

My brother went to the DR a few days ago and our friend told my brother "let me show you the house that I wanted to buy but it was sold already". To his surprise, the "for sale" sign was still there and there were some "lookers" looking at the house. Now our friend is thinking that maybe they told him that it was sold because he is black. Who knows.

My brother was upset about it and decided to pretend that he was interested in the house and went with his wife "to make an offer". Not only was the house for sale, but he was told that he could have the house right then and there. He was also told that he was the only serious buyer that they had seen for weeks. Now our friend is sure that it is because of his color.

At the end of the "negotiation", my brother told them that HIS LAWYER would in touch with them "today". When they asked for his lawyer's name and phone number, my brother gave them our friend's business' card and told them, "that is my lawyer and while you are talking with him, make sure to tell him why you told him that the house was sold and that the new owners would be moving in a day or two when in fact the house was not sold". They were left with their mouths open and my brother just walked out!.

I have had a few bad experiences in the DR while trying to buy a house and an apartment but I have never felt like someone was playing favoritism with me.

I thought that when it came to money, there was no favoritism in the DR.

I really do not know if it has anything to do with his color or it was a matter of money. I am sure that they did not know that our friend has more money than my whole family and all my friends put together.

Is our friend wrong in thinking the way he is thinking?. I hope so!.

It could have been that they perceived this guy to have no money. Generally, the moneyed people here are either white or lighter shades of brown and foreigners with money who come here to buy property are almost always white as well, so that was probably the case.

In the other hand, these real estate agents are people and as such, if your black friend was well dressed and demonstrated in his way of speech, dressing style, and his way he carried himself that he was of the money type, then this was surely a racial thing on the part of the real estate agent, but don't hold the entire company under this scrutiny until you are sure that it was only that real estate agent's racism or a racist company policy.

Such actions are perfectly legal in the DR because there are not anti-discrimination laws in place.

Many times actions of injustices that may appear racist are in fact actions based on the presumptions that dark colored people have no money. Such assumption comes from the reality of life here where darker color people in this world tend to be poor, where as lighter color people all over the world tend to be better off.

Your black friend (if he has the gut to do this without blowing on the real estate agent who did this to him) could try to purchase the same home. If he still wants, from another real estate agent from the same company. If the other real estate agent refuses, then it could be a company policy. However, if the other real estate agent accepts, then its clearly one of the real estate agents who haves a racist attitude or the typical generalization the world over of darker people being poor and thus, why even bother selling this expensive property mentality.

Or it could just be pure racism. These are tough things to figure out, but they are not impossible.

I think that this guy should have been given the opportunity to buy the property if he wished, but some folks judge people based on how they look and act and if that real estate agent got the impression that your friend was not of the money type, then he/she decided to not even try.

Let's face it, if you have something expensive to sell, you won't be spending time with people you think don't have the money to buy it! But, such assumption should be made on how the person acts, dresses, talks, etc rather than whether he or she is black, white, mixed, whatever...

Also, if the guy have an accent that could indicate any assumptions (right or wrong) that he might be of Haitian decent, then it was purely a racist act. There has a been a small wave of rich Haitians from Petionville buying up property here in Santo Domingo and some are even packing and moving from Port-Au-Prince to Santo Domingo. I don't know if its because of the instability in Haiti or simply that Port-Au-Prince is out and Santo Domingo is the place to be for these people, but many folks are not happy about this here in SDQ.

I am not worried, moneyed and middle class Haitians can come as they please. Its the poor whom I worry about. One or two of them is nothing, but a huge bundle of poor Haitians or poor anything would simply add strains to poor dominicans suffering from a scarcity of jobs as it is. But, that is a different topic for a different thread all together.
 
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miguel

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Please read this!!

Nal0whs said:
It could have been that they perceived this guy to have no money. Generally, the moneyed people here are either white or lighter shades of brown and foreigners with money who come here to buy property are almost always white as well, so that was probably the case.

In the other hand, these real estate agents are people and as such, if your black friend was well dressed and demonstrated in his way of speech, dressing style, and his way he carried himself that he was of the money type, then this was surely a racial thing on the part of the real estate agent, but don't hold the entire company under this scrutiny until you are sure that it was only that real estate agent's racism or a racist company policy.

Such actions are perfectly legal in the DR because there are not anti-discrimination laws in place.

Many times actions of injustices that may appear racist are in fact actions based on the presumptions that dark colored people have no money. Such assumption comes from the reality of life here where darker color people in this world tend to be poor, where as lighter color people all over the world tend to be better off.

Your black friend (if he has the gut to do this without blowing on the real estate agent who did this to him) could try to purchase the same home. If he still wants, from another real estate agent from the same company. If the other real estate agent refuses, then it could be a company policy. However, if the other real estate agent accepts, then its clearly one of the real estate agents who haves a racist attitude or the typical generalization the world over of darker people being poor and thus, why even bother selling this expensive property mentality.

Or it could just be pure racism. These are tough things to figure out, but they are not impossible.

I think that this guy should have been given the opportunity to buy the property if he wished, but some folks judge people based on how they look and act and if that real estate agent got the impression that your friend was not of the money type, then he/she decided to not even try.

Let's face it, if you have something expensive to sell, you won't be spending time with people you think don't have the money to buy it! But, such assumption should be made on how the person acts, dresses, talks, etc rather than whether he or she is black, white, mixed, whatever...

Also, if the guy have an accent that could indicate any assumptions (right or wrong) that he might be of Haitian decent, then it was purely a racist act. There has a been a small wave of rich Haitians from Petionville buying up property here in Santo Domingo and some are even packing and moving from Port-Au-Prince to Santo Domingo. I don't know if its because of the instability in Haiti or simply that Port-Au-Prince is out and Santo Domingo is the place to be for these people, but many folks are not happy about this here in SDQ.

I am not worried, moneyed and middle class Haitians can come as they please. Its the poor whom I worry about. One or two of them is nothing, but a huge bundle of poor Haitians or poor anything would simply add strains to poor dominicans suffering from a scarcity of jobs as it is. But, that is a different topic for a different thread all together.
Nal0whs, I think that you did not read my thread properly.

The man dresses like a "million bucks". Drives the latest model Mercedes Benz.

There was no real estate agent, the owners were selling it.

The man has no spanish accent, maybe Italian and French accent but not spanish.

Go back and re-read the thread and you will see that it has nothing to do with real estates or the way the guy dresses or speaks.
 

Oche

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Jan 6, 2004
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Miguel i bet you know better than that, you know how it is.There's no way around discrimination of any kind in the DR. It's every dominican's god given right to discriminate whomever they want, for whatever the reasons they want. You must know what to expect from people from different social background and how to deal with them properly wether that person is from an upper or lower. This is one of the many reasons why there are so many marked differences between low, mid and high classes. Class discrimination is most common, but racism per se is very unlikely.
 

NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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miguel said:
Nal0whs, I think that you did not read my thread properly.

The man dresses like a "million bucks". Drives the latest model Mercedes Benz.

There was no real estate agent, the owners were selling it.

The man has no spanish accent, maybe Italian and French accent but not spanish.

Go back and re-read the thread and you will see that it has nothing to do with real estates or the way the guy dresses or speaks.
All I was doing was giving you a number of possibilities of what could have been the cause of such thing.

And its obvious that I only quickly scanned through your post, but what I have posted still gives several possible reasons for why he was turned down. Notice, I put much emphasis on the very real possibility that this was nothing more than a racist act, but then again, we don't really know that unless those people selling the house would have said it clearly that they don't like black people. They didn't, they simply acted in a way that appears to be racist, sometimes people act a certain way and it ends up they did not meant to give the image that they did give.

However, I am more convinced that it was a racist act, but I am not 100% sure.
 

TEHAMA

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Feb 3, 2004
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A colored perspective

As a person of color, I have found that in situations such as your friend's intention to puchase the property...HE MUST SELL HIMSELF. It sounds stupid but I think its true. It is not enough just to showup with money in hand. Unlike buying a car you wont to be driving away and never to be seen again. There is the neighbor to contend with .

I had a similar situation just LAST WEEK. I met with this Realtor and immediately she sized me up and started talking down to me. I simply and "casually" talked about colleges I finished and businesses I own. IMMEDIATELY her conversation changed and the next day we were looking at Penthouses in Malecon Center. But I clearly told her I didn't have THAT much money to spend but she wanted to see them for herself...AND THEY WERE FABULOUS.

Long story short, they thought he was a drug dealer and didnt want to do business with that element, OR have their neighbors exposed to such activity.

Racisim?? Yes. But completely racist when money is on that table? I doubt it. Just my two pesos.
TEHAMA
 

Oche

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It's all about prejudices. We dominicans are very prejudiced. Historical reasons are responsible for that. For example it is common to think for every dominican that a black/dark person is poor by default (because the predominant poorer class is mostly composed of blacks and mulattoes). If the person being analized apparently belongs from a middle or upper sector, then it will be common for the dominican (regardless of his socioeconomic class or color of skin) will most probably think that he/she has been either a dominican york, drug dealer, or whatever other society censored activities. The result is a severe and constant inferiority complex. The same thing happens in USA. Blame history, its circumstances, slavery and the colonial systems of the americas. But do not be fooled, nowadays everyone discriminates everyone. If you would ask me which person would i prefer to have as a neighbor, a middle class haitian (black) pursuing better living conditions in the DR, or a rich white bachata lover dominican york, i'd pick the haitian blindfolded any day of the century, why? because he/she at least has an education. It is class discrimination at its best or call it whatever you want.
 

miguel

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Jul 2, 2003
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Man, some people!!

TEHAMA said:
Long story short, they thought he was a drug dealer and didnt want to do business with that element, OR have their neighbors exposed to such activity.

Racisim?? Yes. But completely racist when money is on that table? I doubt it. Just my two pesos.
TEHAMA
I guess that you did not read my thread correctly since I never even hinted that they thought that he was a drug dealer. Here it goes again:

The guy carrries himself very well because he is well known in the DR by name, him and his family are very wealthy but he does not throws his or his family's wealth "to the seven winds". He dresses, EVERY SINGLE DAY, except sundays, with suits (because he is a lawyer), the man can talk and carry a decent conversation since he went to the best schools abroad (US), can speak 3 languages and working on his fourth, was there with his wife that is also very wealthy and TOLD THE OWNERS (not real estate agents) that he was a lawyer, very down to earth and friendly.

Some of you do not seem to understand that when a wealthy dominican/person is selling his/her house, and they are NOT selling it because they need the money to eat, they will sell it to whomever they want, money or no money. For example, if I m seeling a car and someone is trying to pay less for what I am selling it for, I would, immediately, tell them "it's my price or nothing since I am not selling it to put food on my table". There's no emergency. Get it?.

I really do not know if it was racism or not, I don't know if they did not wanted a colored person in their neighborhood, I don't know if they thought that they were better than him, I don't know if they were jeolous because they saw a black person that was better-off than them. BUT... I do know that they made a huge mistake. I know that the house is still not sold, I know that he bought a better house closer to his wife's mom, I know that the neighorhood will benefit from having him and his family around, even if it's part time. Remember, this was not going to be his primary home, it was just so his wife could be closer to her mother.

So, no, drug dealer he was not. Did not acted like one and certainly does not carries himself like one.
 

tomgallo

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Mar 25, 2004
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Oche said:
It's all about prejudices. We dominicans are very prejudiced. Historical reasons are responsible for that. For example it is common to think for every dominican that a black/dark person is poor by default (because the predominant poorer class is mostly composed of blacks and mulattoes). If the person being analized apparently belongs from a middle or upper sector, then it will be common for the dominican (regardless of his socioeconomic class or color of skin) will most probably think that he/she has been either a dominican york, drug dealer, or whatever other society censored activities. The result is a severe and constant inferiority complex. The same thing happens in USA. Blame history, its circumstances, slavery and the colonial systems of the americas. But do not be fooled, nowadays everyone discriminates everyone. If you would ask me which person would i prefer to have as a neighbor, a middle class haitian (black) pursuing better living conditions in the DR, or a rich white bachata lover dominican york, i'd pick the haitian blindfolded any day of the century, why? because he/she at least has an education. It is class discrimination at its best or call it whatever you want.

Sincere and down to earth posting!
My cup of tea.