Xenophobia in Monte Cristi

Ricardo900

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Jul 12, 2004
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I just read this in the news section of DR1
http://www.dr1.com/#9
What the Hell is going on in Monte Cristi, a few haitians allegedly committed a crime and the town want to oust all of the haitians. There must be some deep rooted Dominican/Haitian feelings.

Any DR1 members live in Monte Cristi??
 

stewart

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Ricardo900 said:
I just read this in the news section of DR1
http://www.dr1.com/#9
What the Hell is going on in Monte Cristi, a few haitians allegedly committed a crime and the town want to oust all of the haitians. There must be some deep rooted Dominican/Haitian feelings.

Any DR1 members live in Monte Cristi??

I lived in Monte Cristi for a month. It was a while back though.
Everybody there seemed really friendly. I have to assume that this is a knee jerk reaction by some scared and angry people.
 

NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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I have to agree with Stewart on this one.

At this very moment, Spain is going through its own anti-foreigners xenophobic moment.

All because one Spaniard was killed by an immigrant, presumably a Dominican. Already, a Colombian and Dominican immigrants have been killed in Madrid. This is according to local Dominican sources.

I wonder how many Spaniards die at the hands of another Spaniard every year? It has to be more than one!!

Same applies to Monte Cristi, though it's interesting to see that upwards of 2,000 Haitians have left the Monte Crisit area. Monte Cristi is not even a well off by Dominican standards!

These are only the one's deported, just to think how many are located in the wealthier parts of the country and some people still claim that we are not being invaded!

My my my....
 

Marianopolita

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arturo

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someone needs to edit the news briefs on DR1 more carefully...

as seen on DR1

Xenophobia in Monte Cristi
Enraged by the murder by machete of a Dominican woman and the serious injury of her husband, the community of Hatillo Palma in northwestern Monte Cristi has acted against Haitians in general living in the community. ***This is probably the first major xenophobia act in the Dominican Republic. ***
To protect innocent Haitians, the military and migration authorities on the board chose to bus around 2,000 Haitians back to Haiti.

The sentence surrounded by asterisks above astonished me by its inaccuracy and hyperbole. Explanation: "Dice perejil, carajo!"
 

Golo100

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Jan 5, 2002
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Too Little Too Late

People in DR1 remember me well from my Xenophobia days when I recommended to do another Trujillo-like extinction of Haitians in the same area where the problems are now arising. I could have told you so. Reality has now sunken in.

Trujillo wiped out 37,000 Haitians near the border and stopped the flow flat out of illegal Haitians. He just allowed in what he needed for the sugar cane harvest.

But now it is too little too late. There is nothing that can be done. We might as well just lay out the welcome mat to all Haitians who want to come. Even I have grown to like Haitians now. They seem to be better than we are as people. We have grown to be so rotten with so many thieves, corruption, and criminal minds that the Haitians are little angels compared to us.

So, let's face it. We cannot now afford to wipe out Haitians, unless we want the same treatment given to us abroad. We must remember that we have become the greatest "lambon" nationality on earth. We are "lambones" everywhere, even as far as Iceland. We are begging everywhere. We cannot blame Haitians begging on our streets, when we are doing it in every corner of earth including the Siberia, Sri Lanka and Australia. Dominicans are just like hungry dogs begging for meat everywhere. We have no fwcking pride!!

Let the Haitians come in. I am looking for a Haitians girlfriend. They don't look so bad after all and they have real nice asses. Let the word out and send me your resume, OK girls!!! I LOVE HAITI
TW
 

Hillbilly

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Jan 1, 2002
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What I have read and heard

The incident referred to was this

Allegedly, a couple of Haitians went to a small business in Hatillo Palma, after it had closed and knocked on the door. When the guy's wife opened the door they killed her and cut up the husband, ransacking the place and took off, leaving the guy for dead.

When this was discovered, the husband told the people who had done this and emotions got very high. The townspeople apparently burned down all the houses that the small Haitian community of Hatillo Palma had built, with everything inside.

Meanwhile the Army from the garrison in Mao was called out and they took over the town and avoided a greater bloodbath. The eventural criminals were caught later.

I have to agree with those that feel that there is a rising tide of anti-Haitian feeling in many parts of the DR. It might be the culmination of years of dealing with a population that is so uneducated that the very least gesture might engender legal or physical problems.

Sorry state, but if you have ever dealt with Haitians, you will know what I mean..

HB :(:(:(
 

NALs

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Golo100 said:
Too Little Too Late

People in DR1 remember me well from my Xenophobia days when I recommended to do another Trujillo-like extinction of Haitians in the same area where the problems are now arising. I could have told you so. Reality has now sunken in.

Trujillo wiped out 37,000 Haitians near the border and stopped the flow flat out of illegal Haitians. He just allowed in what he needed for the sugar cane harvest.

But now it is too little too late. There is nothing that can be done. We might as well just lay out the welcome mat to all Haitians who want to come. Even I have grown to like Haitians now. They seem to be better than we are as people. We have grown to be so rotten with so many thieves, corruption, and criminal minds that the Haitians are little angels compared to us.

So, let's face it. We cannot now afford to wipe out Haitians, unless we want the same treatment given to us abroad. We must remember that we have become the greatest "lambon" nationality on earth. We are "lambones" everywhere, even as far as Iceland. We are begging everywhere. We cannot blame Haitians begging on our streets, when we are doing it in every corner of earth including the Siberia, Sri Lanka and Australia. Dominicans are just like hungry dogs begging for meat everywhere. We have no fwcking pride!!

Let the Haitians come in. I am looking for a Haitians girlfriend. They don't look so bad after all and they have real nice asses. Let the word out and send me your resume, OK girls!!! I LOVE HAITI
TW
Planning to vacation on Plage Labadie anytime soon or do you prefer Kalico Beach Resort between Port-au-Prince and San Marcs facing the Gulf of Gonaives?

or

Petionville as you next home? :nervous: :nervous: :nervous:

Oh, common. Yes, we are being "invaded", but that is not reason to give up on the hope of an existing DR. We will simply going to have to adjust our image from Hispanic to African, that's all.

Of course, we could start to pressure the government to take action by making more marches, more strikes, etc until they listen as oppose to just giving up.

What was that old saying: A winner never quits and a quitter never wins.

Hmm...
 

NALs

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Hillbilly said:
The incident referred to was this

Allegedly, a couple of Haitians went to a small business in Hatillo Palma, after it had closed and knocked on the door. When the guy's wife opened the door they killed her and cut up the husband, ransacking the place and took off, leaving the guy for dead.

When this was discovered, the husband told the people who had done this and emotions got very high. The townspeople apparently burned down all the houses that the small Haitian community of Hatillo Palma had built, with everything inside.

Meanwhile the Army from the garrison in Mao was called out and they took over the town and avoided a greater bloodbath. The eventural criminals were caught later.

I have to agree with those that feel that there is a rising tide of anti-Haitian feeling in many parts of the DR. It might be the culmination of years of dealing with a population that is so uneducated that the very least gesture might engender legal or physical problems.

Sorry state, but if you have ever dealt with Haitians, you will know what I mean..

HB :(:(:(
I personally, don't think it has to do with their low education levels or anything else other than their sheer numbers.

Can you or anyone else honestly say that you can drive from point A to point B with out seeing a group (notice, not one, but a group) of Haitians along the way?

I mean, you live in Santiago, the most "Hispanic" of Dominican cities and Haitians have become a dime a dozen there too!

The public hospitals are filled with them, some hospitals have turn dominicans away because all the beds are taken, mostly by haitians.

The universities are chock full of them, as you have clearly witnessed.

The streets are filled with them selling you the world on a red light and begging, and there are those few who are really working hard at their little store.

The hotel employees appear to be haitians from end to end with a few dominicans here and there.

Sugar cane fields are chock full of them and border towns like Dajabon are already indistinguishable from Haitian towns, except that Dajabon has paved roads and electricity pilons, something that is missing in many places in Haiti, even in much of Port-au-Prince!

It's their presence, that's the frustration. Today, saying we are being invaded is not just a saying, it's cut and clear for all to see.

And now that the Haitian prime minister arbitrarily said that Haitians don't need visas to cross the border (of course, the Dominican government still requires visas) as if he rules over the entire island, the avalanche that Balaguer showed the country in his election television commercial is going to be very real.

So, when we hear of a "Haitian" doing something real bad (like killing a Dominican), haitians trying to cross illegally and when stopped by military they shoot at the militarymen, along the border cows and other animals being stolen by starving haitians from Dominican farmers.

You know, feelings build up and now it's getting to the point of bursting from many Dominicans.

Let's just hope a wave of Haitian induce violence is not on the way, because this will surely create a miniature anti-Haitian battles nationwide.

Look at the bright side, for all those Dominicanyorks who claim that the DR is an African country, the Haitian presence will simply re-enforce their rhetoric!
 

El Belga

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A new invasion is coming, be prepared

All this thread only confirms what I wrote in another thread dealin with honesty of DR politicians. Haiti is going to take the control of DR once again, just because most politicians just think about their own welfare.

In the meanwhile, during every crisis, people need to find scapegoats, and the bad ones are always the foreigners/the jews/the communists etc. (the ones who are, think or act different than the majority of the people of a country).

I live in Santiago, and I see Haitians that work hard, making buildings, maintaining the roads etc. Not sure many dominicans would agree to do those jobs under the sun
 

frank alvarez

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It's a serious problem.

The out-of-control Haitian migration to the DR is a serious problem that is not being addressed by the government or the people. A large part of the responsibility rests on the 'glorious' armed forces, stationed at the border, allowing Haitians to cross by the thousands daily, for a small fee per head, riches to be shared by the officers in the area and perhaps all the way to the armed forces headquarters in Santo Domingo.

The only situation of this nature on the face of planet Earth. Two completely
different cultures as far as language, religion, customs sharing a small island with one country occupying 2/3 of the territory and being much more prosperous in relation to the other one. If I was a Haitian and had a bleak
future in my country I would be trying to go to the DR too. However, I am
a Dominican and I have to care about my country being systematically invaded by those that are taking away from my fellow Dominicans, already
disadvantaged themselves, jobs, educational and medical opportunities, etc.
 

Chirimoya

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What happened is the result of xenophobia, not xenophobia itself.

People were taking out their anger on an ethnic group because of something one of them has done, or is rumoured to have done. Just as ridiculous and pointless as attacking all people with yellow shirts, because the murderer was wearing one.
 

stewart

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Chirimoya said:
What happened is the result of xenophobia, not xenophobia itself.

People were taking out their anger on an ethnic group because of something one of them has done, or is rumoured to have done. Just as ridiculous and pointless as attacking all people with yellow shirts, because the murderer was wearing one.

Good point. Unless the majority of violent crime in a region is caused by people wearing yellow shirts. After a certain point, they all become suspects and targets.
 

Criss Colon

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They Both Look The Same To Me!!!!

What is all the "fuss" about anyway? Dominicans and Haitians are basically the same people,NO? After living togeter on the same island for the last 500 years you don't think that the French,Spanish,and Aftican blood has had time to mix together to a great extent???I mean,Haiti ruled the DR at one point in time!What do you think "27 de Febrero" is celebrated for anyway?
Today those who call themselves "Dominicans" use their Haitian Brothers and Sister as scapegoats for what is "wrong" in the DR.Nonsense! As ususal "Golo" is the only "Honest" Dominican willing to tell it like it is!
The dominicans ,as ususal,have followed the bad example of the Americans.They blame the Haitians,as the Americans blame the "Mexicans",for causing all their "Problems".When in reality the Haitians and Mexicans do all the "Hard" jobs that Americans and Dominicans won't do,at "Slave Wages", which in the end helps both economies.The Haitians aand Mexicaans contribute 100 times more to the economies than they consume.
I still prefer to "Screw" Dominican women,but a "Haitiana" might be a nice change once in a while!!!!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
 

NALs

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What is all the "fuss" about anyway? Dominicans and Haitians are basically the same people,NO? After living togeter on the same island for the last 500 years you don't think that the French,Spanish,and Aftican blood has had time to mix together to a great extent???I mean,Haiti ruled the DR at one point in time!What do you think "27 de Febrero" is celebrated for anyway?
Well, yes, people we are all.

But the same? I don't know. I suppose that as long that Canadians and Americans see each other as different, we can do the same!

Or is it Korea and Japan or Saudi Arabia and Kuwait or Lebanon and Syria or maybe Poland and Estonia?

Geez, it seems that the whole world is the same, but different. Afterall, why is Africa divided into so many countries? The Euros have been out of there for a while now, so colonization can't be the cause anymore!

Let's face it, DR and Haiti are as different as any two neighboring countries can be.

About the Haitian invasion, population of DR was barely 100,000 at the time. A slightly larger amount was composed of Haitians on their side. A small number of the Haitians actually migrated from the rich west to the impoverished east of the island, with the bulk of those who did being military officers and their cadets.

By 1900 (quite some time after the independence and before the Haitian migration really started to pick up) the DR population was barely 1 million and from written accounts by American militarymen in the 1916 invasion, a vast number were "white". Now, how many were pure whites, who knows, but I've read reports from 1916 and 1920s written by American investors and militarymen clearly distinguishing (and I am quoting) "Dominicans should not be confused with Haitians, who are all negros. In the Dominican side negros are few and far between with most Dominicans being white" that I'm quoting from the report written by an American investor in 1918. The report is named "The Situation in Santo Domingo" and was written to give the American public an inspective view on the US military occupation of the DR and prospectively annexing the DR to US.

This happened in a time when blacks were not considered equals to whites by Americans, so the fact that an American mentioned that most Dominicans that he saw between Puerto Plata and Santo Domingo were white must have been accurate.

After 1920s and an injection of American capital into the sugar industry, the migrations of blacks from the British Caribbean islands began to accelerate and from there we get the famous Cocolos of San Pedro de Macoris, etc. Later on, when the cocolos went on strike, Trujillo (of all people) with the acceptance of Haitian dictator Papa Doc began the habit of importing Haitians for the Zafra (sugar cane cutting season).

At the sametime, Trujillo placed emphasis on populating the country with multiple speaches claiming "governar es poblar" (To govern is to populate). Because of this, Dominicans began to have babies (it was encourage) much more frequently and the population slowly increased from barely 1 million in 1930s to around 3 million in 1960s when Trujillo was killed.

Trujillo encourage the "whitening of black Dominicans" and encouraged misegination between the black Dominicans and white Dominicans, resulting in the mulatto majority we have today. As more and more Haitians crossed over, Trujillo saw the darkening of skin tones of the average human in the DR and claimed that Haitians were "darkening the Dominicans", thus the massacre.

By 1960s, the Dominican Republic was a country of 3 million people with mulattos making a majority and whites a large minority with blacks being relatively small in numbers. In the 1960s decade (due to the civil war and instability) migration from Haiti was not great. In the 1970s, Haitian migration started to become fashionable as the DR prospered. In 1980s, Haitian migration continued at slightly higher numbers as their economy finished collapsing. In the 1990s, Haitian migration swelled as DR prospered and today, Haitian migration continues today at higher numbers than ever as their political situation deteriorated.

Thus, here we are in 2005 in a Dominican Republic of 8 million people (when in 1960s we only had 3 million, 1970s went to 5 million, 1980s 6 million, 1990s 7 million, today 8 million bordering on 9 million).

A country largely mulatto with the black minority growing as more Haitians enter when in 1900s, whites seem to be the most prevailing type of race in this country. In essence, the DR has changed alot, but it's ideology has not which has left the country in a sort of awkward situation. European ideologies, European modality, European praise and the country looks less European or even mulatto and more African as Haitian keep coming in, but dominicans are is still largely mulatto, with whites coming in second and blacks third. Black Dominicans come in third, but if you include blacks from other places living here (Haitians, St Lucians, etc), their percentages would be higher than 11%, more akeen to equal amounts of pure whites. And yes, pure whites do exist, it's a myth among expatriate Dominicans to assume that all Dominicans have some mixture, there are Dominicans who are really white, don't burn fast in the sun, and have light eye color, etc.

Of course, the places that have remained the most lightest has been the Cibao, the area that has always had the most Dominicans, in 1900 estimated to be 80% of the population. Today, 60% of the population lives there where as the South and East has seen their population rise in part due to migration patterns.

The dominicans ,as ususal,have followed the bad example of the Americans.They blame the Haitians,as the Americans blame the "Mexicans",for causing all their "Problems".When in reality the Haitians and Mexicans do all the "Hard" jobs that Americans and Dominicans won't do,at "Slave Wages", which in the end helps both economies.The Haitians aand Mexicaans contribute 100 times more to the economies than they consume.
Human nature?

I still prefer to "Screw" Dominican women,but a "Haitiana" might be a nice change once in a while!!!!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
Ugh!
 
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NALs

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El Belga said:
All this thread only confirms what I wrote in another thread dealin with honesty of DR politicians. Haiti is going to take the control of DR once again, just because most politicians just think about their own welfare.

In the meanwhile, during every crisis, people need to find scapegoats, and the bad ones are always the foreigners/the jews/the communists etc. (the ones who are, think or act different than the majority of the people of a country).

I live in Santiago, and I see Haitians that work hard, making buildings, maintaining the roads etc. Not sure many dominicans would agree to do those jobs under the sun
Everybody will do whatever job, assuming they are paid what they think its fair for such job.

A Haitian works for less than a Dominican, so he gets hired. Haitians work for less because:

A) Many are here illegally and can be deported if somebody screws them

B) They don't know that if they ask the same wages a Dominican would ask, they will be paid such. Of course, doing this would be that a Dominican will be hired and Haitians are out of the job.

When you put a Haitian and Dominican in the same pot, the Dominican gets chosen by his own people. Haitians are only chosen because they are cheaper, end of story.

Pay a Dominican RD$400 to pick coffee, but wait, the Haitian will do it for RD$100, hmm...

The Dominican will prefer to not pick any coffee at all and that would have worked to pressure the employers to pay better, but since the Haitian is just "around the coner", why not!

Welcome to Market Capitalism!

BTW, Dominicans don't pick coffee here, but in PR, Dominicans are the one's harvesting the coffee. Proof that a Dominican will do any job, if he is paid a fair price, but why pay the high wages Dominican ask for when the Haitian does it for less.

Thus, I conclude that Dominicans are not lazy (just how Americans are not lazy), but they simply want to live well. Americans would be cleaning toilets if cleaning toilets yielded $70,000 dollars a year. It's pure Market Capitalism.
 

juancarlos

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Sep 28, 2003
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More on this situation as reported in today's Hoy. Is it true that among the haitians in DR many are not laborers, but, as it is claimed here, people who do not work, criminal bands and those unable to work because they are mentally ill? A writer interviewed for this article claims the situation is getting out of hand. Here is the link in Spanish:

http://www.hoy.com.do/app/article.aspx?id=43901
 

Marianopolita

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Dec 26, 2003
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Juancarlos,

Thanks for posting that link to the follow up on the Hatillo Palma situation. I don't normally read Hoy therefore I would have probably missed this article. It was an interesting interpretation on the Haitian presence and the over all affect that the situation is causing in the DR etc. This is one of key paragraphs in the writer's summary imo:


Manuel N??ez:
Manifest? que las autoridades son las responsables de garantizar la seguridad en la frontera, pero si no lo hacen, los ciudadanos tienen que garantiz?rsela a si mismos, porque no van a dejar despojar de sus propiedades ni imponer situaciones de hechos consumados en perjuicio de la soberan?a nacional.

Consider? que la seguridad nacional es asunto tanto de las autoridades, pero tambi?n se precisa de la cooperaci?n de la poblaci?n civil.
 
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Hillbilly

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It seems you all missed the article that told of two Haitians

being gunned down by shotgun blasts to the stomach and the head. In Tamboril!
This is a town far from the border, but apparently things are not good for Haitians these days.

As for NawOals comments. I certainly disagree with A and B.

Haitians are not ignorant of Dominican labor laws and will find lawyers to protect their rights as employees. Whether here legally or not.

Generally speaking, after talking to my engineer friends, the pay for qualified Haitian bricklayers, hodcarriers and iron workers is on a par for the wages established by the Ministry of Public Works...

Will they work for less? Perhaps, if there are Dominicans clamoring for the job. But in the absence of other job seekers, I think Haitians know how to exploit the job market.

HB :p