NYT article on Haitians in the DR

Mirador

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Apr 15, 2004
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juancarlos said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/20/international/americas/20dominican.html?pagewanted=1

What do you think? What will DR do? Does this article reflect mounting pressure on Dominican govt. to accept Haitians in the country? What will the solution be, if there is one in sight?

What government? the DR has no government, hasn't had a government in a long time...

The article is fraught with inexactitudes. It is a sensationalist and tendentiously slanted piece of journalism. By the way, the Masacre river was not named after the 1937 incident during Trujillo's administration, it's been called Rive Le Massacre since the times of the Buccaneers.
 

deelt

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Mar 23, 2004
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Dominicans have made their bed...

Dominican practices a two-pronged policy. Look through the front and open the back...door that is.

Individualism and consumerism drives too much of the culture. Rather than protect sovereignty Dominicans would rather have a jeepeta/SUV. Dominicans also don't want to work for market wages. It's a chicken and egg problem. If Dominicans don't want to do the work some one will.

The fact is that this didn't happen overnight. Haitians have a right to basic human rights. If it is unacceptable for Haitains to "take over" DR then Dominicans really need to be emigrating from New York City.


juancarlos said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/20/international/americas/20dominican.html?pagewanted=1

What do you think? What will DR do? Does this article reflect mounting pressure on Dominican govt. to accept Haitians in the country? What will the solution be, if there is one in sight?
 

THE GAME

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Jul 13, 2005
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www.nydailynews.com
deelt said:
If it is unacceptable for Haitains to "take over" DR then Dominicans really need to be emigrating from New York City.


so does every person from every nation represented in the 50 US States,, right???


the problem with hatians emigrating to DR is that DR is not an industrialized powerhouse like the US. DR cannot carry half of Haiti and its own people.

I do understand and acknowledge that DR is biased toward haitians and that's unfair.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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juancarlos said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/20/international/americas/20dominican.html?pagewanted=1

What do you think? What will DR do? Does this article reflect mounting pressure on Dominican govt. to accept Haitians in the country? What will the solution be, if there is one in sight?
What do I think?
-Its typical sensationalized over the top misinformation being spread all over the world. Remember, the Dominicans are the "bad" ones, Haiti and its government has nothing to do with this...

In any case, several key figures in spreading these types of messages around the world (almost all of these key figures are Haitian themselves) recognize what's to come as the Sugar industry begins to dwindle down. It's in their best interest to make the world look down on the DR with an eye of suspicion and, perhaps negatively, in order for Haiti to avoid receiving the tens of thousands of temporary workers of the sugar industry once the industry goes belly up.

This is the reason behind the above average and much stronger anti-dominican message being spread around the world by certain organizations and journalists.

What will DR do?
-The same thing we have always done, which has been in agreement with the Haitian government itself! Remember, all of this habit of using Haitian labor started first under the American occupation of both countries, and later continued as Haiti sold its own people to Trujillo (literally, Trujillo had to pay for each Haitian head used in the Sugar industry, the Haitian government treated its own people like cattle if not slaves).

The current administration is much less reluctant to allow the Haitianization process to continue, but its still sensitive to international criticisms. This was not the case under the PRD, when thousands of Haitians were given Dominican citizenship without applying or even asking for it. Not to mention the extreme relaxation of the border patrol and the very low numbers of deportations.

The DR will continue to do the same thing it has been doing because these news stories are meant to create a public opinion (real or not) towards the DR, Haitian migrants, and Haiti. Public opinion and what the heads of states understand of the situation or any situation of any kind are never on the same line.

However, this could affect our tourism industry, especially now that the US market has been becoming ever more important to Dominican tourism. Our european influx is probably being affected by anti-Dominican tourism propaganda being spread by pro-Haitian organizations in that continent.

Does this article reflect mounting pressure on DR govt?

-It reflects desperation from the part of pro-Haitian organizations given what's in store for the Sugar industry starting in January, when CAFTA comes into effect. The Sugar industry is the largest proponent of illegal Haitian labor, without that industry, the issue of illegal migration will become ever more adhered to because those and the industry that encourage illegal migration labor will be out of business.

For whatever reason, pro-Haitian organizations are much more concerned with this reality than with pressuring the Haitian government to maintain free and fair elections, to organize and regain control of its country, and to become a government focused on macroeconomic stability, increase investments, and economic growth. The Haitian government hardly receives any pressures of the sort from these organizations.

-What will the solution be?
In my opinion, the solution is bringing to light the hypocrisy from the part of these organization regarding the image they want to create of the DR as oppose to the lack of image creation of other countries that also have large numbers of Haitians are deports them regularly. In addition, massive deportation of illegals, enforcing the 80% dominican labor to be used in dominican economic industries (this is currently being done), and pressure the Haitian government into focusing on the well being of its people at home, before they can go around asking others to treat their people better than Haitians receive in their own homes.

Many of these organizations are asking for rights to Haitians, often these are rights that not even Dominicans have!

-Conclusion:

This is propaganda at work.

You will often hear people say the DR tries to have its cake and eat it too, but the reality is that the Dominicans opposing illegals are not the same Dominicans who encourage it!

To assume or act as if its the same Dominican who opposes and then encourage such thing is, in my opinion, typical of pro-Haitian organizations and people who are quick at making the case against the DR.

The Haitians deserve their most basic human rights to be guaranteed to them, we can all agree on that.

But, they certainly are not entitled to rights that Dominicans themselves don't have and they certainly are not entitled to threaten or violate the sovereignity of this country, regardless what actions the country takes to take care of this matter, as long that the matter is within their most basic human rights.

It's like I posted on another thread, there are many screaming against the way the Haitian are being deported to Haiti, but nobody is screaming against the way the Haitians are being imported into the country, often enough is enclosed trucks with no ventilation, little space, unsanitary conditions, and the sort.

The ultimate question is why the double standards?

-NAL

EXTRA: Keep in mind that to many people its considered wrong for a Dominican to speak up what is on his/her mind. As you have noticed, I could and do care less of what people think of my opinions, but I will not keep my opinions to myself. In my opinion, this is part of the anti-dominican propaganda worldwide.

They want everyone to look at a Dominican suspiciously if he speaks against illegal migration, but embrace the Dominican who is pro-Haitian. Additionally, they want people to always accept whatever a Haitian says without doubt or suspicion.

This attitude is often displayed right here on DR1 with people always quick at calling an outspoken Dominican something that he/she certainly is not and this is the reason many people prefer to keep quiet than voice their opinions.

However, its interesting to see Haitians post their own stereotypes of Dominicans and not a single scream, denouncement, or anything of the sort is said by anyone!

On a site like this one, where most of the people are not Dominican, it says alot of how effective the anti-dominican sensationalized propaganda being spread by pro-Haitian organizations around the world has been lately.

Despite of this, the heads of state of both countries still have stable and good relationships.

-NAL
 
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NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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deelt said:
The fact is that this didn't happen overnight. Haitians have a right to basic human rights. If it is unacceptable for Haitains to "take over" DR then Dominicans really need to be emigrating from New York City.
I'm sure New York City just went through its worst economic crisis, has been recuperation one step at a time, and plenty of able people are loosing their jobs to the Dominican diaspora.

:rolleyes:

-NAL
 

Berzin

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Nov 17, 2004
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The piece was'nt biased, it just left a few key points out. But all in all, let's face it-the business owners who hire these haitians would not pay a living wage to a native dominican. It is the fault of these business owners and the traffic which ensues across the border from Haiti to the DR consist of poor poeple looking for work.
And on top of it all, they are treated like trash. Maybe some of these beer-swilling chopos who hang out in the colmados all day living off their women should be rounded up and put on buses to go do a nice days' labor on a farm or a construction site.
 

bochinche

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Jun 19, 2003
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Berzin said:
The piece was'nt biased, it just left a few key points out. But all in all, let's face it-the business owners who hire these haitians would not pay a living wage to a native dominican. It is the fault of these business owners and the traffic which ensues across the border from Haiti to the DR consist of poor poeple looking for work.

...the fault of the business owners? i think you'll find most dominicans just don't want to do the work that a haitian will do.

there are many more holes in ginger thompson's piece that carlos morales troncoso didn't get around to touching......but, unfortunately ginger got the effect wanted and it doesn't matter how much cmt protests its veracity, people will remember the original.
i often wonder how much of our daily paper we take as honest to goodness truth, but is really just drivel like ginger's.
 

daddy1

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Feb 27, 2004
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The NYT article was old news...but fairly accurate..

This paper is receiveing valuable information on this issue from business owners, Haitian Dominican's, the U.S. and Canadian embassy, the vatican etc.. so these political clowns denying this claim is rediculous...these attrocities do happen in D.R. all over,, I witnessed this sour treatment with my own eyes...I just can't stand when the Dominican goverment is exposed then justify there actions by saying people are making this stuff up!...(please)...the violation of human rights there is no secret...and it's a part of the everyday culture of things there, Let's be honest with ourselves haitian's are tolerated, and isolated..but make no bones about it there Hated there big time... common.. the voices as a kid still bouce and eco threw my ear as many of my friends and family say today yo odio eso maldito Haitiano el diablo,, me tienen halto!....thank God I snapped out of that thinking years ago, to top it off not even Mr. Fernandez can say that Haitian's get equal treatment under there laws...what they should have said and acknowledged, is how they will do there very best on improving these situations, and bring to justice those who violate the rights of our haitian neighbors and migrant workers...not mouth off an play the I'm innocent and outraged approach.

The sources the NYT received to write that article were from insiders, whistle blowers, and legitimate sources that follow that situation very closely....someone there wanted the news to be told...and a respected news publication was called to deliver that news, trust me the NYT, has no interest in Dominican affairs, and they gain nothing by making up stories of Dominican's as well, I think the NYT did them a favor, and not exposed there neglect to young Dominican boys and girls across the island as well...the D.R. gov't has alot of baggage, the problem is, they think no one else knows it.. LOL...LOL...
 

Its_where_I_Belong

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Nov 5, 2005
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Actually racism and discrimination is the biggest isue in the whole world, it makes some Fascist clown send troops in some foreign countries just for the sake of supremacy and oil money. or make the same clown impose economical sanction to another country because they have a different political system then they have, up to forbid its citizens to visit that particular country!!!

I agree with Bobinche and Daddy1:

Haitian, you might like or not like them, nevertheless they are doing the jobs refused by others: collecting garbage, delivery, construction, sugar cane...every hard jobs are done by Haitians, so I really believe they have their place in the dominican modern society.

regards to all

Alain
 

aegap

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Mar 19, 2005
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Clave Digital has an article that puts this one by the Times to shame. Its the most objective I've seen regarding the issue.

Here is how the Bahamian Prime Minister is planning on dealing with Haitians that have migrated to the Bahamas.
 
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