Race and the armed forces in the DR

"Just a curious thought...."


I'll try to save your life with this one (since curiosity killed the cat ... ;-)...

It so happens that over 80% of the conscripts are from the DR deep south and southwest, which are regions close to the border, with a larger proportion of Dominican-Haitian population, which tend to have people with darker skin.
Now, why do these people are more prone to join the DR military? I surmise it is because of the extreme poverty of these regions, and the wages and conditions for new conscripts do not attract people from other, say more affluent, regions...

I noticed this to;feb 27 parade in the malicon,my initial thought was mabee the DR military was employing haitians,as mabee there was a shortage of dominicans applying to join the forces.Not that i gave this a second thought until reading the post,but good of mirador to educate us all again,and smooth out what initally looked mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

military

My question has been and I asked this about 10 years ago why does the D.R. need one who is going to invade ? Cuba?, Puerto Rico ?, The Virgin Islands?, they should take this waste of money and give us let see maybe water and lighte 24 hours per day. Hey, I know they need a security force but, do you know how many Col. and Gen. are here please what a joke.

The "ARMY" Here Is Used To Keep The General Populace "IN LINE"!

They are called out whenever there is a "General Strike" or a threat of "Civil Unrest"!
The "BLACKER" they are the better! The "average","BROWN" Dominican is more "SCARED" of the Darker troops! Some of the "ELITE" Forces look more Haitian than Dominican.
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCris Coloooooooooooooooon

Good question!

Capt. Rob57 said:

My question has been and I asked this about 10 years ago why does the D.R. need one who is going to invade ? Cuba?, Puerto Rico ?, The Virgin Islands?, they should take this waste of money and give us let see maybe water and lighte 24 hours per day. Hey, I know they need a security force but, do you know how many Col. and Gen. are here please what a joke.

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Some years ago I posed the same question with inconclusive results.
a few agreed that it was an expense our nation could do without. However, the response was more pro maintaining the status quo, in spite of it's obvious drain on the economy.
Today's armed forces, a relic of the Trujillo era,-- when a Cuban invasion was a real and present danger--is a burden that (apparently) nobody wants to be instrumental in disbanding, for obvious consequences to the organiser/ originator.
These parasites are well-entrenched in government and is doubtful they can be pried out of a cushy job that has all the benefits and none of the sweat.

I'm told that there are more colonels and generals in our little island than in much bigger countries. How sad is that?

More living generals in the DR than all generals, living and dead, in the entire history of the US, was the claim that was made under Hippo.

Look at most Latin American countries - the sole purpose of the military is to keep the people in line. Some have been a little more enthusiastic than others in that task.

Chirimoya said:

More living generals in the DR than all generals, living and dead, in the entire history of the US, was the claim that was made under Hippo.

Look at most Latin American countries - the sole purpose of the military is to keep the people in line. Some have been a little more enthusiastic than others in that task.

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I don't have the exact figures, since it's a closely guarded military secret. But my estimates are that the DR has about 180 active generals, and close to 800 colonels.

During Hippo's time there were over 200 generals...and this guy has not decreased that number by any stretch of the imagination.

I totally concur with the poster that suggested getting rid of the entire military establishment.....this has been my position for over 40 years...

HB

Is it best to have a military state or a police state,remove one you have the other,as Cccccccc posted someone needs to keep the people inline.MABEE its better to reduce than remove,LIKE 99%.:ermm:

The military, yes one of those subjects that I enjoy talking about. This is especially true when it concerns the military in the DR. Many threads have been started on this subject so if the interest is there then a short search will direct you. Of course those other threads don?t deal with skin complexion of the soldiers as questioned by the OP but do in fact deal with the military in general be it there necessity, size, purpose and amount of officer corps. The subject of the DR military has been discussed to ad nauseam and is probably why this thread has seemed to have died in its tracks. Have no fear the instigator is here.

This article, which I happened to noticed, proved interesting in its statement, ?the lack in the command and control over the soldier?. The creation of a new force, (CESFRONT), as a means to bring command and control over the troops is without a doubt an attempt at ?over-kill? that in the final analysis will have no bearing on the present situation.

As in all sectors of the Dominican government it seems to be corruption that plays the major role in its operation. Even the president has a hand in the proverbial ?cookie-jar?. Because of the vast amount of corruption within the official document issuing organizations the DR is left with many position within the military and police being held by people that are not Dominicans and many of these individuals put in their years of working for the government illegally and are now presently drawing a monthly retirement check.

It must also be mentioned that during the days of Balaguer he started a process of unpaid employees in many sectors of the government. These included such positions as bomberos, regidores, Alcaldes, civil defense, and some police and military among others. Their appointment was a means of showing force and getting the job done without having to pay. The prestige acquired from the title and or uniform helped serve as a means to help people better their lot in life. Income was usually derived from bribes paid for favors that could be rendered or to forgo an action that could be taken against a person. Many of these position are to this day established as unpaid but over time the different organization have learned how to incorporate their wages into the laws of each organization.

I think you will find that any attempt to reduce or eliminate the military or police will be met with very stiff opposition and therefore impossible to accomplish. One organization that will offer their opposition will be the catholic church and that is because of the Vicariato Castrense which was signed in 1958.

Rick

Overkill.

british bulldog said:

Is it best to have a military state or a police state,remove one you have the other,as Cccccccc posted someone needs to keep the people inline.MABEE its better to reduce than remove,LIKE 99%.:ermm:

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What I've been saying all these years, is that the military and police are top-heavy with all these higher-rank personnel that do little to make a difference in combating crime, or anything else for that matter.

They're a burden to the economy and it's a good bet that they're involved in the very crimes they're supposed to be fighting!

If Leonel had what it takes, He would have retired 9/10ths of these parasites and trimmed the armed forces to a manageable number.

The DR does not need jet fighters, tanks, destroyers or any other heavy equipment necessary to wage a conventional war.
What it needs is a fleet of ships to patrol the coast, helicopters, and small planes to secure our borders and just enough military to do the job.

If the money spent on this nonsensical, utterly unnecessary war machine, were to have been redirected towards education........well, you know the rest.

Don Juan said:

What I've been saying all these years, is that the military and police are top-heavy with all these higher-rank personnel that do little to make a difference in combating crime, or anything else for that matter.

They're a burden to the economy and it's a good bet that they're involved in the very crimes they're supposed to be fighting!

If Leonel had what it takes, He would have retired 9/10ths of these parasites and trimmed the armed forces to a manageable number.

The DR does not need jet fighters, tanks, destroyers or any other heavy equipment necessary to wage a conventional war.
What it needs is a fleet of ships to patrol the coast, helicopters, and small planes to secure our borders and just enough military to do the job.

If the money spent on this nonsensical, utterly unnecessary war machine, were to have been redirected towards education........well, you know the rest.

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Slow down with your janefondism, you are sounding like an ultra-radical hippie. A good soldier should always be respected, so you naming them " parasites" is not prudent.

i suspect race and economic situations play a major role in most militaries of all countries throughout the world....

Janefondism?

asopao said:

Slow down with your janefondism, you are sounding like an ultra-radical hippie. A good soldier should always be respected, so you naming them " parasites" is not prudent.

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I was intrigued by the above ref term, so I googled for it, and got only one hit. It was a page with the following text...

"No bro, he won't see that. Janefondism is still alive till this day and age. I say one thing to all traitorous hippies: If you hate the U.S Military so much, just ask to disband it and just ask for some Alien from outerspace to come to take you out of this planet. Ya remember that idiot that was asked " what would the world be without the U.S Military?". The beast said " a very beautiful place". bwahahahaha One of these days the U.S military will overthrow the Civilian government in U.S. Bunch of ungrateful bastards, they don't deserve any freedom or democracy."

from google...

Darn Mirador let's not go in that direction......

Getting on the touchy side so I need to thread carefully. Economics has a large hand in things as they relate to race. This has been the trend throughout the years but in some countries it has been changing.

The military, regardless of which country, has certain roles that it plays and can only do so by having people serve within said organizations. As the words defense, fighting and dying are usually the first words to be associated with the military then the ability to recruit the necessary members becomes difficult. It is because of this difficulty to recruit that certain incentives are introduced to help attract the required recruits. The military therefore turns into a sort of welfare state and this has a direct relation on the economical position of many of its recruits and the reasons they have joined.

Referencing the US military for the purpose of examples only, it should be pointed out that money to pay for further education is a prime enlistment incentive used and the old proverbial ?three hots and a cot? come to mind. They will even pay an ex-military member $2,000 dollars if that ex-member should talk a person into joining.

As all militaries are an entity unto themselves it is the rules and laws that they operate under and the enforcement of those rules and laws that will determine if its purpose and roles are fulfilled.

Once again referring to the US their military operates under the ?Uniformed Code of Military Justice?, (UCMJ), as the principle rules for its operation. This ?UCMJ? is the instrumental guideline and there are other rules and laws established that fall under this main guideline and they are called ?Regulations?. Under the UCMJ a lowlife private has the availability under Article 32 of that book to request correction of and/or redress for a wrong he considers was done against him and he can file such claim against any member of any rank. Due to the transparency and structure of the military his case must go through the system. When such a case is initiated such things as transfers and promotions of those accused comes to a halt until such a time as the case is finalized.

Though the DR military does in fact have a similar system as the US UCMJ the enforcement and transparency within their system is lacking therefore having a direct effect on its operation. They too have ?Regulations? to dictate the procedures for all aspects of their operation. They have a ?Regulation? for the wearing of their uniform and the reason for this is to insure uniformity throughout the military. Having said that then I suggest you look at any squad or larger segment of the DR military and notice the differences in the uniforms and wearing of same as it applies to uniformity. The ?Regulations? are very clear on what will and how it will be worn and applies to all members of the same unity but may differ a bit as it applies to officers.

Being a soldier, policeman or a fireman requires constant training and rules. A disciplined soldier who is well trained and motivated is much less likely to commit offenses be they in public or on the battlefield.

Rick

Rick Snyder said:

Under the UCMJ a lowlife private has the availability under Article 32 of that book to request correction Rick

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lowlife private?

Rick, do some elaboration on this comment please. What do you mean by " lowlife"? Just because somebody started out with the lowest rank " E-1" makes that person less ? or you mean somebody that happens to have low moral values?

Regarding the term " Janefondism", I doubt I was the first one to come up with that. I've never heard anyone else say it before, I've been using it in reference to actions of Jane Fonda, Janefondism means " no respect or appreciation for the Military. Eg: Jane Fonda, over 30 years and still no apology, just " regret".:tired:

Let me very quickly offer an apology to anyone and everyone that may have been offended my my misuse of the word 'low-life private' in my post.

It was in fact a very poor choice of words and the reality of the situation is that I had absolutely no malice intent in its use. The only thing that I may or will offer in my defense is that by serving 22 years in the military and having started up from the lowest rung of the ascending rank ladder I felt, when in that position of 'private', that I was in fact a sort of low-life as it relates to the hierarchy of rank. Therefore my use of such a phrase is based upon the fact of, "been there, done that, got a t-shirt" and I hope the board members may understand why I used that phrase.

Let me once again repeat that there was no intension of malice or disrespect in my use of the words in my prior post and I will do my utmost not to let it happen again.

Sorry for the diversion, back on topic.

Rick

Apology accepted!

You probably meant to say "lowly" as in low in rank. I personally don't know how it felt to be a "Slick Sleeve" or have "Mosquito Wings", since I came in at E-3, hahahaha. But we get your drift.:smoke:

Just a couple of points which I am not sure will add very much to this but I think are interesting....Quite a few Dominican soldiers have been sent to Iraq. Not many have come back. And Dominican military are not allowed to go to Cuba. I was hoping to go as it is so close (I am British so no probs), but my Dominican husband was in the military at that time so we could not go. He was also supposed to go to Iraq. Cost us a case of whisky to get out of that one!