Was Duarte a Racist? A History Question.

M

Mr. Lu

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Mar 26, 2007
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If this has already been discussed, please let me know.

I ran across this story online. It regards claims that Juan Pablo Duarte was a racist and that his secret organization, La Trinitaria, was the inspiration for the KKK. The claims are from a film director Taina Mirabal and though there is no substantial proof for her claims, other than references to a book by Jos? Molina (with the same name), I was wondering how she could make her claims or if any one had any info on this?

Another claim she makes is that he has [JPD] been compared to Jesus Christ as part of a political campaign during the last 60 years, but as I have it understood it was Sanchez during the Independence movement that compared him to JC. Quote: "Duarte es nuestro Jes?s Nazareno"

I also came across this quote that would seem to discredit the claims.

"Los blancos, morenos/Cobrizos, cruzados/Marchando serenos,/Unidos i osados,
La Patria salvemos/De viles tiranos/Y al mundo mostraremos/Que somos hermanos."
Juan Pablo Duarte

And finally, from what I have it understood, the first incarnation of the KKK had no racial motives, though it would eventually morph into what we know it as.

Anyway, my question is: Can anyone find any info to credit or discredit the argument made by the film maker?

El Diario NY


Primicias

The NY Times


Note: This is not a discussion on race, instead on history. Yes, I know the argument is based on an accusation of racism. But I am not trying to stir up a debate about racism or Haitianism or whatever. I am just looking for more information on this from a historical point of view.
 
M

mofongoloco

Silver
Feb 7, 2013
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So today I read a piece in the nypost that a statue of Juan Pablo Duarte may be taken down as a symbol which makes "groups uncomfortable". 

When I searched the topic on google this thread was the first hit. 

Also... a nut article from 2002

A Slap in the Face of a Dominican Hero




By ALEX MINDLINSEPT. 2, 2007
For four miles, the No. 1 train rumbles through Washington Heights and Inwood, two of the city’s most heavily Dominican neighborhoods. As it passes above Inwood, its noise causes a lull in the chatter of the fruit vendors below, and dust from the tracks drifts into street-corner milkshake joints and travel agencies offering cut-rate fares to Santo Domingo.




So whoever posted anonymous fliers through the train’s cars one day in July denouncing Juan Pablo Duarte, a founding father of the Dominican Republic, was clearly someone with a sense of political theater. “The Father of Racism,” the fliers read in Spanish, in inch-high letters superimposed over Duarte’s mustachioed face. The posting of the fliers, which have since been taken down, was reported in El Diario, the Spanish-language newspaper.




The fliers, which called Duarte a “white devil,” shocked many Dominicans, who regard Duarte as a hero for helping the country win independence from neighboring Haiti in 1844.




“This is the reckless act of an ignorant person,” said Justo Luperón, a spokesman for the New York branch of the Instituto Duartiano, a group dedicated to fostering Dominican patriotism. “It’s reprehensible.”




The Dominican Republic has long had a tense relationship with Haiti, the poorer neighbor with which it shares an island and which sends migrant workers to the Dominican Republic. In the past two years, at least three documentary films have chronicled the laborers’ poor working conditions, and David Cordero, a vice consul at the Dominican Consulate in New York, speculated that the fliers and the movies were linked. “It’s too much of a coincidence,” he said.




Seemingly everyone agrees, though, that Duarte is an ill-chosen target. Experts in Dominican and Haitian history said they knew of no precedent for the accusation.




“There’s no element that I remember once reading, in anything Duarte said or wrote, that could be interpreted remotely as racism,” said Anthony Stevens, assistant director of the CUNY Dominican Studies Institute. “It’s one of those things that you see and you wonder, ‘Is this somebody nuts, who took Duarte’s name out of a bag in a raffle and decided to use it?’ ”
 
M

mofongoloco

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Feb 7, 2013
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Mod.  I made a mistake and didn't realize this was in a general forum. Can someone please move it to off topic. 
 
D

DRob

Gold
Aug 15, 2007
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Why? This particular topic is clearly DR related, and there are more than enough threads covering the subject matter as it applies to the United States in off topic.

The real question here, is whatever happened to Mr. Lu?
 
D

DRob

Gold
Aug 15, 2007
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594
113
It's really up to the GF mods, but here's the problem:

This very short and old thread was DR based until you added non-DR info to it. If they choose to do anything, there are two likely resolutions:

1. The non-DR content you added gets deleted, and you can re-post in OT; or

2. The whole thing gets moved to OT, at which time I will merge it with one of the primary "statues and symbols" threads (aka "Civil Unrest" or "Trump").
 
A

airgordo

Bronze
Jun 24, 2015
750
0
0
Mr. Lu said:
If this has already been discussed, please let me know.

I ran across this story online. It regards claims that Juan Pablo Duarte was a racist and that his secret organization, La Trinitaria, was the inspiration for the KKK. The claims are from a film director Taina Mirabal and though there is no substantial proof for her claims, other than references to a book by Jos� Molina (with the same name), I was wondering how she could make her claims or if any one had any info on this?

Another claim she makes is that he has [JPD] been compared to Jesus Christ as part of a political campaign during the last 60 years, but as I have it understood it was Sanchez during the Independence movement that compared him to JC. Quote: "Duarte es nuestro Jes�s Nazareno"

I also came across this quote that would seem to discredit the claims.

"Los blancos, morenos/Cobrizos, cruzados/Marchando serenos,/Unidos i osados,
La Patria salvemos/De viles tiranos/Y al mundo mostraremos/Que somos hermanos."
Juan Pablo Duarte

And finally, from what I have it understood, the first incarnation of the KKK had no racial motives, though it would eventually morph into what we know it as.

Anyway, my question is: Can anyone find any info to credit or discredit the argument made by the film maker?

El Diario NY


Primicias

The NY Times


Note: This is not a discussion on race, instead on history. Yes, I know the argument is based on an accusation of racism. But I am not trying to stir up a debate about racism or Haitianism or whatever. I am just looking for more information on this from a historical point of view.
Click to expand...

Taina Mirabal and whoever says stuff like that is nothing but an IGNORAMUS and when you are such a person well, nothing intelligent will come out of you...the short answer to your question is NO.

I encourage you to read NALs post on this forum that show With EVIDENCE what this country has had to fight against, and is actually the Opposite, THE DR and its founding fathers were victims of Racism.
 
M

mofongoloco

Silver
Feb 7, 2013
3,002
9
38
Thanks drob. It was the first hit from a google search. I see windeguy also posted regarding the Duarte statue in the OT forum. 

I just wanted to point out that I inadvertently broke the rules for general forum. 
 
NALs

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,497
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There's no documented evidence that could even remotely suggest he was a racist, any academic and historian will readily affirm to this. If anything whenever he did touched what could be considered 'racial topics' it pin points in the opposite direction. Duarte was a liberal after all. He didn't even advocated the exclusion of any Haitians that were within the DR at the time of independence or even before the independence was acheived. In fact some Haitians were part of the independence movement and Duarte never rejected them.

Personally, I have a hard time believing that a racist could say something like:

Los blancos, morenos, cobrizos, cruzados,
Marchando serenos, unidos y osados,
A la Patria salvemos de viles tiranos,
Al mundo mostremos que somos hermanos.

The whites, blacks, brown, and mixed;
Marching serene, united, and daring;
Lets save the country from bad tyrants;
And lets show the world that we are all brothers.

Dessalines, on the other hand, well... if we want to talk about a racist founding father, murderer, rapist of girls and women all over the island... there's plenty of documented evidence that leaves Dessalines with a bad taste in the mouth regarding this. His very own friends killed him just one year into his governance. That's a testament to his malicious ways even with his own people. Otherwise, why would they kill the guy that self-declared himself emperor for life and subjected his own population, which he liberated from slavery, to a dictatorship?

A quick glance at the first constitution of Haiti and then that of the Dominican Republic will leave it very clearly which country was founded with a racist slant.

Dessalines did said that he wanted the hands of every Haitian to be soaked in blood, so that in the future no one would be able to say that Dessalines was the culprit, the evil man that spilled the blood of those that did wrong and of those that were innocent. Those were his exact words, for the hands of all Haitians to be soaked in blood. What type of person can say such a thing, even during a war?

The questions that come to my mind are:

Is there a statue of Dessalines somewhere in New York City?

If there is, why is it not on the list?
 
Last edited:
Xavier_Onassis

Xavier_Onassis

Gold
Aug 6, 2006
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From all I have read, Dessalines was a truly cruel and nasty guy.
Certainly worse than Toussaint, Boyer and Christophe.
Perhaps he was a clever soldier.
 
cobraboy

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
40,964
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DRob said:
The real question here, is whatever happened to Mr. Lu?
Click to expand...
After job prosepects in the DR fell through (specifically with DR1), he ended up moving to Brazil where he's done fantastic work documenting grafitti artists in Rio.

Hell of a nice and intriguing guy.

He did a video of learning how to ride a motorcycle:

[video=youtube;mCRul-dU7BQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCRul-dU7BQ&feature=player_embedded[/video]
 
AlterEgo

AlterEgo

Administrator
Staff member
Jan 9, 2009
23,151
6,318
113
South Coast
DRob said:
It's really up to the GF mods, but here's the problem:

This very short and old thread was DR based until you added non-DR info to it. If they choose to do anything, there are two likely resolutions:

1. The non-DR content you added gets deleted, and you can re-post in OT; or

2. The whole thing gets moved to OT, at which time I will merge it with one of the primary "statues and symbols" threads (aka "Civil Unrest" or "Trump").
Click to expand...

I don't see any non-DR content - the NY Post link includes all the statues they're considering removing in NY, including the one of Duarte.
 
AlterEgo

AlterEgo

Administrator
Staff member
Jan 9, 2009
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6,318
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South Coast
Computer translation:

THE AUTHOR is a historian and communicator. He lives in New York.

The Statue of Duarte in New York
By: JOSE C. NOVAS Date:August 29, 2017In: Opinion 0 Comments
A movement has recently emerged in New York City that drives the idea of ​​removing the names of some streets and statues of various historical figures from the United States and other parts of the world.

Those who support the initiative do so on the basis of politicization or current circumstances that have nothing to do with historical reasons. They are based on the alleged behavior of the characters, who accuse of promoting racism in the past.

From our point of view we can say that in relation to the Dominican hero in this proposal has prevailed ignorance and ignorance of the legacy of the patrician. Of the other figures requiring the removal of names or monuments in public squares in the multiethnic city of New York, some are truly questionable. Others do not. Any place or statue is erected on merit, not on negative or pernicious attitudes.

Among the statues identified as part of the plan for elimination is that of Christopher Columbus, which is an icon among the historic spaces of New York City. As far as the statue of the father of the Dominican homeland, located on the Sixth Avenue in Manhattan, we believe that primacy has prevailed.

In both cases, the complainants attribute an attitude of intolerance towards the African race, which for us lacks documentary and logical foundation; The initiative for what is seen, is based on the meekness of groups that are unaware of the true story of Christopher Columbus and Juan Pablo Duarte.

In the first place, the European navigator in his time was no more than an employee at the service of the real elites, therefore, what today can be attributed to its action or that seems racial prejudice, must be interpreted as the fulfillment of the instructions that Received from its sponsors, if someone promoted prejudice during the colonization was not Columbus, but the sponsors of the colonial system, the navigator was no more than a worker who worked for the imperialism of his time.

Regarding the accusation against Duarte's legacy, we can reiterate that this is an aberrant attitude of some who by ignorance of history or inspired by political interests make the mistake of pointing out as a promoter prejudices towards the Haitian population or towards the Blackness; The Dominicans achieved the separation of Haiti based on a patriotic struggle that had nothing to do with the racial composition that in both cases, the inhabitants were mostly racially mixed.

The Dominican hero was fully aware of the struggle that the people of Haiti had fought against the European colonizers and culminated in the abolition of slavery throughout the island.

To make it clear, we establish here that the project of liberation of the Dominican people and the Trinitarian movement were political initiatives that culminated in a social outbreak by the search for spaces in the social scale and those struggles were based on the cultural aspects dissimilar in the traditions And customs of both peoples. Duarte in spite of having expressed brilliant ideas in the political plane was not given to write them, but his sister Rosa understood the importance of his work and collected for posterity in phrases, notes or speeches.
One of Rosa Duarte's quotes about her brother states the following: "I admire the Haitian people, because reading their history I see it fighting against substantially higher powers and with their determination and love of freedom overcomes them again and again." The interpretation of that phrase is more than eloquent in its background, it is clear indicator that Duarte did not have racial prejudices against the Haitian population as it is now claimed, at that time most of the islanders were mulatto and black, who now Claim that Duarte was prejudiced against the African race is because they simply do not know his legacy.

The statue of Duarte in New York represents a recognition of the contributions that the United States has given to the Dominican Republic since it began its settlement in 1919. It is a sign of its vitality, its contribution to the economy and culture of American society to our days.

The statue of Duarte must remain and be respected, as they deserve regarding the hundreds of thousands of immigrants who come from the island with their descendants, which today constitute an important support column in all spheres of society in the United States. Josecnovas@yahoo.com

http://almomento.net/la-estatua-de-duarte-en-nueva-york/
 
CristoRey

CristoRey

Welcome To Wonderland
Apr 1, 2014
11,780
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Racism racism racism, who is a racist?
Who was a racist?
Are you a racist?
He was a racist.
No he was not a racist.
Hey! You are a racist.
No I am not a racist!
Oh yes you are a racist because you support a racist person.
So, I am supporting a racist person because I said he was not a racist?
Cfku you, you damn racist supporting racist! I don't speak to racist!!!!

Did I miss something?
 
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