Visa Fraud...How does it work?

minerva_feliz

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I have heard that people here will pay a lot to get a U.S. visa (or residency), as much as US $25,000 through arranged marriages. I have also heard that the DR ranks high for visa fraud, in terms of people making up fake relationships or jobs to get through the process. I know, I know, this happens everywhere. But I'm curious about how it goes down in the DR.

I was just wondering...
-How exactly does visa fraud work?
-What kinds of schemes do people use to fool the folks in the consulate?
-What is the going rate for visas these days?
-Got any stats about how often it happens?
-Do you know a funny story about a visa fraud scheme that was exposed?

BTW, I am asking out of honest personal and academic curiosity and have no interest in engaging in visa fraud whatsoever...

Note: I am talking about cases where BOTH PARTIES are aware that it's a fraud, NOT when one side involves a visa-seeking Sanky(ette) and the other side THINKS everything is legitimate.
 

suarezn

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You don't work for the consulate do you?

There are a gazillion different schemes people use to try to make it out of poverty.
- A relative or friend who lives in a different country brings down a friend to "marry" that person. These are not as common as they used to be I think as now the consulate performs all kinds of checks.
- Putting a person in as part of a group (i.e. religious, musical, sports team, etc)
- Altered papers
- Connections in the consulate (yes that happens too. Not just Dominicans are corrupt)


In reality the great majority of Dominicans who make it to The US illegally these days come in boats through Puerto Rico (half my hometown has made it that way) or if you have more money and are scared of the boat ride you get a visa to Mexico or Panama and make it that way. The boat ride costs about 45k pesos.

Nowadays a lot of people are going to Spain for which a bought visa costs 300k+ pesos. This is the new destination specially for those who cannot come back to The US because they were deported or have a case pending with The US justice.
 

suarezn

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I forgot to say that the biggest frauds really are committed by the people who organize these trips who take advantage of people's desperation to take their money. Stories of people who are taken for a boat ride and dropped off in another part of The DR (making them believe it is Puerto Rico) are common. A while back there was a story of a group of people from San Cristobal area who each paid about 300k for a trip to Spain. They were taken to the airport and each given a little box with the "visa" and told not to open it until later. Of course the box did not contain any visa and they all lost their money. Stories like these are very sad as most of these people are very poor and normally they have mortgaged or sold whatever they have for this trip and then they are left much poorer than they were before.

I know many people who have lost it all, even their lives, trying to make it.
 

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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We had the case a few years ago of a friend of a forum member who was part of a group that was taken to Morocco, on the basis that it was "right next to Spain" (technically more or less true) and therefore it would be easy for them to get in (totally untrue). They were just dumped there by the trip organisers.

I also heard of a group that somehow ended up in a mining town in the Guyanese jungle (presumably they were aiming for Venezuela and missed) and the women had to prostitute themselves to earn enough money for the trip home...

A few years ago it was revealed that Spanish consular officials were selling visas. There is also a trade in stolen and forged passports with US visas.
 

sangria

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I suppose this is the reason that there are so many sankies/sankiettes.

It's a much more economical way to get out of the country!!

Tons of free gifts, money, plane tickets, clothes etc...why would anyone choose to pay $25,000 to leave when they could just say nice things, have sex and trick women/men into loving them enough to sponsor them.

At least that way it looks more real on paper.

Sangria
 

La Profe_1

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The most blatant attempt at visa fraud I ever encountered was the employee at one of the resorts who asked me if I knew anyone who would accept $5,000 dollars from him in exchange for a marriage that would yield a visa for him.

This was a while ago, before I moved to live in the DR but I can still remember my shock and lack of words to respond.
 

minerva_feliz

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You don't work for the consulate do you?

No, I don't, just find it interesting. I would like to talk to someone that works in the consulate though, I'm sure they have a some great insights and funny stories. I would like to know what kind of training they get to detect the frauds, and how they decide in the end who is legit and not. Obviously there are some people that are so good (in person and on paper) that it works.

If stolen passports can actually get people through, why aren't there more thefts, considering this country is chock full of tourists? And how much would someone pay for one of those? (yeah, mine's not for sale, just wondering ;) )

I agree that considering how much an illegal viaje can cost you and the fee for setting up a fraud on paper (let alone being successful with it), the Sanky option looks pretty good. Why pay money for a visa or travel expenses when possibly someone will just give it to you and then some?
 

kacy

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I had thought the negativity didn't exist in this part of the forum but I see it still finds its way here.
 

minerva_feliz

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No negativity intended

I had thought the negativity didn't exist in this part of the forum but I see it still finds its way here.

If reality=negativity, then I guess I just like to keep it real. This is a relevant and objective discussion about something that happens with visas.
 

dominicangirl29

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my sister came to the USA illegally with somebody else passport when she was 8 years old, the owner of the passport and my sister look alike and that is how my sister's family got away with it (I don't say my sister got away with it because she didn't have an option at the time due to her age). she is still here illegally and without any hope of adjusting her status as of right now. she is 19 now.
 

SKing

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I had a Colmado owner offer me $15,000 to marry him. At first I thought he was joking so I said "$15,000?? Tu 'ta loco?!? Por lo meno' valgo $20,000!!" When he said OK, I realized he was not joking. He even offered me $10,000 up front and the other $10,000 when he got to the US. I turned him down of course. I don't think that I will trust a Dominican man enough to take him to the States but all I kept thinking was what if the day after this guy gets to the US, I meet the man of my dreams and he can't even go to DisneyWorld with me because I married and sponsored some Colmado owner!:cheeky::cheeky:
 

sangria

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Interesting Discussion Topic!

I had thought the negativity didn't exist in this part of the forum but I see it still finds its way here.

Visa fraud is a valid topic to discuss.

As long as everyone stays on topic and it doesn't become personal then the thread will stay open.

Any posts that are off topic or are derogatory will be deleted.

So far so good!:cheeky:


Minerva,

I like the point about paying to arrange a marriage for visa purposes.

I know someone who's parents arranged a "husband" for her from India. They talked briefly by internet and met in person the day before their wedding. He was in Canada with permanent residency status just over 3 months later.

I wonder if the husbands family accepted the dowlry for the $$$ or the wife or the visa?

There is even a place on the Canadian immigration application that asks if your marriage was arranged and if so to provide details.

This is an acceptable method for some cultures so why not the DR too?
 
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Alyonka

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$15,000 for fake marriage is very expensive. It used to be around $5000, but maybe prices grew due to the inflation.

Visa fraud is not just marriage related. It can be use of any kind of visa not for the purpose it was intended. Work, tourist, etc. Some people come here on tourist visas and try to work illegally. This is also fraud.
 

GringoCArlos

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Another type of visa fraud is committed at the corner of Ave Maximo Gomez and Ave Cesar Nicolas Penson (at the US Consulate). 400 or 500 Dominicans line up outside every day, 5 days a week, to apply for US visas, with or without a lawyer by their side.

Each has paid US$147.00 in fees to the consulate and spent 2 to 4 days chasing down the required documents for their visa appointment. They each then receive 60 to 90 seconds in front of a window with a mindless 20-something drone behind, often speaking to that applicant with great disdain, and making their decision on the spot, according to their secret criteria or their "hunches".

Think about the reverse "hunches". I have little faith that a Consulate interviewer with a degree in History, or English, or even Political Science from a third rate college with average or mediocre grades, and maybe two years experience, can make those kinds of calls and truly protect the United States.

Perhaps 5% or 10% of Dominican applicants receive a visa. (the true success rate and number of applicants are Homeland Security secrets). The majority of applicants are seeking a visa in order to go to the United States and spend their money there as a visitor, or as a student, and then return to their home in the DR.

Perhaps these policies of non-transparency on visa policies are promulgated by the State Department in order to siphon off would-be yola money from ?unsuitable applicants? by allowing them to borrow and pay it instead to the US Consulate for a visa interview which costs them more than RD$6000. Keeping them broke = fewer yolas.

The argument will be advanced that "the Consulate is the front line in protecting the United States at all costs". They will shout "Don't you know there are many bad people who want to do harm to the United States and their way of life?" or "We have to keep out the terrorists!".

They may argue "What about 9/11!". To make that argument, then first respond to the abuses and atrocities committed in the name of US security around the world. Why should the United States be allowed to violate another nation's sovereignty in the name of US security (another example yesterday of the US military invading yet another country to assassinate people believed (but not tried or convicted) of harming US interests).

My conjecture is that US practices in other countries were responsible for the 9/11 tragedies. The US ALWAYS uses a carrot and a stick approach to anything they want to get from a foreign nation. They only publicize the carrots, but it?s their non-public sticks which bother most people once they find out.

From my point of view, it is the Ugly American and their conduct which foment many Dominicans views of how ALL Americans must be. Imagine meeting Americans in such places as an interview at the US Consulate and going away thinking ?What axxholes?, or meeting a drunken tourist sitting poolside for a week at a Dominican A.I. resort, bragging about all of their material possessions back home (paid for or not) to the poor ignorant dominicano serving them, and how wonderful life in America must be...

After either type of experience, just think of the expanded stories Dominicans must tell their friends and families every night when they get home. Have American tourists or folks in the US Consulate ever given thought that their behavior in a foreign country may be a factor in creating a seed that later grows into an illegal immigrant??

Negativity kacy? Fraud begets fraud. I believe visa fraud began with the US Consulate, their policies and their personnel. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

I have no doubt that Dominicans' actions are a reaction to what they or family members have previously encountered, whether it was at the Consulate, on some beautiful beach in the DR, or after hearing the fantastic stories from someone who met a drunken American tourist with a big mouth full of stories.

It's no wonder that the Consulate staff in Santo Domingo now sees many ridiculous things on a daily basis. Why don't you publish basic criteria on your website for which a Dominican applicant will automatically be denied a visa? I don?t believe it is a matter of national security, and I also believe that what you may consider to be common sense may not make any sense at all to someone who is not American.
 

minerva_feliz

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I thought $25,000 was about the price these days. I mean, essentially it's like you're buying a residency. The American would have to sponsor the person, which has it's own legal implications about supporting the person and paying back any means-tested government assistance (aka welfare) that the person uses for about 10 years after they enter the U.S. If the person wanted to, they could screw you out of a lot of money and you would get sued by the government and have to pay. Who would take that kind of risk for someone they barely know for so CHIN, like $5,000? Plus you would have to stay married to them for over 2 years until they got permanent resident status. If you get a divorce before, the person gets deported.

For arranged marriages, I was talking about arranging them for the SOLE purpose of a visa, not for cultural reasons. For example, marry one of your friends, cousins or more distant relatives to get them in. Or someone going to an immigration lawyer and saying, 'I'll marry someone to get them a visa if they pay me $XXX', and the lawyer sets it up.

I also heard about a case where someone applied for a work visa and got it, only the place where they said they were going to work was either fake or didn't actually hire them, but they had made a fake letter on authentic-looking letterhead.

Maybe I should be careful not to let the cat out of the bag so that visa fraud mafia doesn't try to track me down!
 

kacy

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My comment against negativity had nothing to do with visa fraud - it had to do with sankie comments finding their way here to this part of the forum - I agree with your chicken or the egg comment Gringocarlos and I completely agree that fraud is a valuable topic - however most come here because they've found true love and are looking for positive help on what to include in our applications and somedays just some positivity to get through the process. Sankie's are not unique to the dominican - they exist everywhere - even in the US and Canada and I don't care for the stereotype so I avoid those posts. I had stopped coming to this site after reading some of the posts on sankie's as I found them to be quite discriminatory and generalized(though we know these situations exist I prefer not paint all with a brush - they exist not because dominicans are bad people but because even bad people can be dominican) but returned when I found this informative, positive section on VISA information and it has been very helpful. I"m sorry if you misunderstood my intentions - I will say nothing more on the matter.
 

minerva_feliz

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$25,000 ain't chump change

Please explain!!

Well, your average Juan wouldn't have that much. But we all know there are a myriad of ways to get some major cash here through illicit dealings (drugs, embezzling, legal loopholes, cronyism, etc.). And a really legit looking marriage could be the person's most convenient and secure shot at getting a hassle-free United States residency that they would otherwise not be able to get, where they could live and work in the U.S. for the rest of their life. Over time they'd make the money back. I'd say that's worth $25,000 to a couple folks. Now, if you got married and someone paid you a lot less and now you are disappointed, let us know :classic:

Not that I'm trying to encourage people to marry someone to get $25,000 more or less...like I said earlier, it's a big legal risk and not worth it (to me).
 

dominicangirl29

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Out of interest, how does this affect your sister in day to day living. Health care must be an issue as she will have no legal status at all and in reality doesn't exist as of the stolen passport being reported. That must be a huge issue to go so long hoping that you don't become ill.
As far as work goes, is this possible? or is it all for next to no wages and under the radar?
I find this really interesting and only can hope those who make the journey find what they are looking for. It is very difficult to find it being legal in any country, not existing and doing everything as a second class citizen must be incredibly difficult.
I wonder often just how many would return to the motherland if they had the oportunity, I think many end up stuck without any options once they have been successful in buying into the lies that life is easier on the other side of the water.
I wish her all the best!

Pig, it affects her very much. She doesn't have insurance of course and she just finish high school and she cannot even go to college because she would have to pay out of pocket as she can't get financial aid or grants due to her legal status and she can't afford to pay out of pocket. I want to clarify that her mom (or whoever it was that got the passport) did not stole the passport. the other girl's mom (family) borrowed it for my sister to get to the states. we came from a small town and we know each other so that is how it happened.
 

SKing

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People on this thread seem to be living in a completely different Dominican Republic to the one I know, although I am pretty sure I am on the correct forum.
Tell me where do these $25,000US come from that these destitute and desperate Dominicans don't have, if they did they would not want to leave. And if they were able to come across such money then I expect they are far more appreciated and needed in the DR and would be regarded as successful. This is without doubt a rediculous number to come out with in my mind, that some guy or gal can just say, 'hey, take me where the grass is greener I have $25,000US'.
I find these ammounts of money you are saying is offered absolutely rediculous and in myself doubt are real at all, although I would never say anyone is not talking truthfully as I know none of you.
Most people living on an average wage in the US, Canada or the UK don't even have that kind of money saved up so where are these figures comming from?
I understand nothing, but I have a Dominican family and so please educate me so I can also know how this kind of money id raised.

If 2 wanabes wanted to jump the waters and got together with that kind of money they would have opened a bar!

Please explain!!
Alot of times there are several family members in the states pitching in with this money
SHALENA
 

looking4info

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loosining our imagration laws so we could track and deport if needed makes more sence for keeping the goverment informed. rather than letting all the illigals know that if they get here we will let them stay legally sooner or later. in a sence promitting to get here any way you can now. hard to stop imigration in a land full of imagrants

off topic, thats pretty cool that family helped her get here with the use of there kids passport.