The New Constitution:

Mr. Lu

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Mar 26, 2007
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I just received this is in email, about proposed changes to the DR Constitution. Anyone with knowledge of what's going on tell me if these changes are true or are they "smudged" to fit the goal of the poster?

Subject: CAMBIOS EN LA CONSTITUCION ANTENTAN CONTRA LOS DERECHOS DE LOS CIUDADANOS DOMINICANOS

A continuaci?n, una lista de los atrasos que vienen con el cambio de Constituci?n. Estos son s?lo algunos puntos tomados de las informaciones de la prensa y de Participaci?n Ciudadana, seguro hay muchos m?s.

1. Se suprimen muchos derechos colectivos incluidos en el proyecto de reforma original, como la defensa del patrimonio com?n, el disfrute de los bienes p?blicos, el derecho a la paz, al desarrollo, a una administraci?n p?blica honesta y transparente, al uso de los avances cient?ficos y tecnol?gicos, al acceso y libre expresi?n del ciberespacio, entre otros.

2. Los ciudadanos/as ya no tendremos derecho a demandar la inconstitucionalidad de una ley o acto jur?dico.

3. Tampoco tendremos derecho constitucional a ser compensados o indemnizados por los perjuicios o lesiones que puedan causar bienes o servicios de mala calidad.

4. Ya no ser? sancionado el hecho de que los funcionarios p?blicos proporcionen ventajas a sus asociados, familiares, allegados, amigos o relacionados.

5. Los funcionarios p?blicos ya no estar?n obligados, como lo est?n ahora, a presentar su declaraci?n jurada de bienes.

6. Se elimina la declaraci?n de que los senadores y diputados son libres e independientes en la toma de decisiones y de que deben actuar en apego al sagrado deber de representar al pueblo que los eligi?. Esto significa que ahora deber?n m?s bien seguir las directrices de sus partidos, cuyos intereses estar?n por encima de los de la ciudadan?a.

7. El acceso a la informaci?n p?blica estar? condicionado que lo que el Estado considere que es "veraz", seg?n su conveniencia.

8. El punto m?s conocido: las mujeres con embarazo de alto riesgo deber?n exponerse a la posibilidad de morir, pues bajo ninguna circunstancia podr?n interrumpir el embarazo... estar?an incurriendo en delito constitucional.

9. El presidente tendr? mayor poder para endeudar a la naci?n sin la aprobaci?n del Congreso Nacional, para nombrar a todos los viceministros que quiera sin limitaci?n alguna y para dise?ar como le convenga el presupuesto nacional.

10. El poder judicial perder? independencia y estar? m?s subordinado al ejecutivo, pues la presidencia tendr? m?s poder en la designaci?n de los procuradores de las cortes de apelaci?n y los fiscales del distrito. Esto significa que ser? m?s dif?cil perseguir la corrupci?n del poder ejecutivo.

11. La reelecci?n indefinida no consecutiva (que fue la primera y principal motivaci?n de este proyecto) no contribuye al surgimiento de nueve l?deres ni a la sana alternancia del poder, sino que ayuda a mantener a los mismos dinosaurios por d?cadas. ?Se imaginan 30 a?os de Hip?lito y Leonel?

12. Estar? prohibido demandar a un legislador sin la aprobaci?n de la c?mara a la que pertenece, sin importar el tipo de demanda que sea. Si un legislador otorga un cheque sin fondo a un particular, ?ste no puede demandarlo.

13. Se aumenta el n?mero de diputados a 190 (m?s dinero del Estado para ellos, m?s puestos para repartirse en las elecciones).

14. No se podr? aceptar empleo en territorio dominicano de un gobierno extranjero sin autorizaci?n del Poder Ejecutivo. Esto afecta a los cientos de dominicanos que trabajan en embajadas de pa?ses extranjeros.

15. En el proyecto de reforma original se prohib?a la reducci?n de las ?reas protegidas, pero esto se cambi? para permitirlo si las dos terceras partes las c?maras lo aprueban.

16. El Consejo de Poder Judicial podr? trasladar a los jueces cuando quiera. Este es un concepto trujillista que atenta contra el principio de inamovilidad de los jueces y que se ha prestado en el pasado a utilizar estos traslados como sanci?n sin juicio previo. En otras palabras, ser? dif?cil hacer justicia a las personas poderosas.

17. Diversos art?culos van en contra de acuerdos internacionales de derechos humanos en materia de nacionalidad, sexualidad, libertad religiosa, etc.

18. Para cerrar con broche de oro: ser? mucho m?s dif?cil modificar la nueva constituci?n, pues los mecanismos que establece para ello son m?s exigentes que los actuales.

CONCLUSI?N: Los partidos est?n creando las condiciones legales para una dictadura moderna. Buscan que el Estado no est? al servicio de la ciudadan?a, sino al servicio de los gobernantes, que se benefician de un pueblo sumiso y explotado.

Todav?a estamos a tiempo: la Suprema Corte de Justicia debe conocer el recurso de inconstitucionalidad interpuesto por Participaci?n Ciudadana. Su sentencia puede anular la validez legal del proyecto de Constituci?n que se est? intentando aprobar actualmente.

Contribuye a dar a conocer estos puntos para crear conciencia de lo que est? pasando y construir un movimiento ciudadano de repudio a la modificaci?n constitucional.

NO A LA DICTADURA DE LOS PARTIDOS. NO AL CAMBIO DE CONSTITUCI?N.

INF?RMATE!



Mr. Lu
 

Lambada

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This is why I have been asking (in other threads) if there is a website which updates the changes to the 2002 Constitution as they are voted upon, in keeping with the new fashion of governmental 'transparency' ;).

My personal view is that there is sufficient substantive material in the email you received for you take it seriously Mr. Lu, albeit some of the phrasing could be construed as a little 'smudged'. Don't dismiss it for that reason, however.

The whole process by which recommendations for constitutional change was set up had IMHO much to do with pushing the position of vested interests & little to do with citizen participation. It has even less to do with empowering citizens. And those of us foreign legal residents who are not citizens might not even be able to publically discuss this or write about it, if certain changes are made. That has to give pause for thought as to the underlying motivation.The following was in last Monday's DR1 News:

8. Parties agree to limit citizen rights
'Dominican citizens will not be able to sue the government for violation of the Constitution. The PLD and PRD political parties agreed to remove this prerogative from the Constitution. The political parties justified the decision on the grounds that "not every citizen enjoys this right. In order to try the action on unconstitutional issues, one must necessarily have a legitimate and judicially protected interest," as reported in Diario Libre.
The party leaders also eliminated the right of citizens to avail themselves of quality assets and services that those who suffer injuries or are prejudiced by poor quality assets or services have the right to be compensated according to the law. The legislators say that this is not constitutional material.
The agreement includes the unification of the elections in the same year but on separate dates.
The President, Vice-President and the legislature will be elected on the third Sunday of May and the municipal authorities will be elected on the third Sunday of February. Moreover, it was agreed to set a minimum number of member and judges for the Central Electoral Board (JCE) and the Higher Electoral Court, in contrast to what was approved during the first reading.
The JCE will be made up of no fewer than 5 members and the Court will be made up of no fewer than three judges and two substitutes, and this is justified because "it is not convenient to set in the Constitution the number of members of the Central Electoral Board. Exceptional political circumstances could force changes it its composition." This means there is no limit on the number of the judges.
The two parties modified numeral 2 of Article 87 that condemns all forms of corruption in State bodies, establishing "that in the same way that people who give advantages to their associates, relatives, relations, friends or partners will be punished" was changed to eliminate the words, 'relations, friends or partners'.
The political parties also agreed to eliminate Article 89, number 4. This says that "the senators and deputies elected are not bound by an imperative mandate, they are free and independent to take decisions in the affairs submitted to their consideration, they will act at all times with obedience to the sacred duty of representing the people that elected them before whom they must present accounts." This was done with the observation that "it-the article-weakens the political organization that postulates the senator or deputy. Legislators should be guided by the their party directives." '
 
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? bient?t

Guest
Todav?a estamos a tiempo: la Suprema Corte de Justicia debe conocer el recurso de inconstitucionalidad interpuesto por Participaci?n Ciudadana. Su sentencia puede anular la validez legal del proyecto de Constituci?n que se est? intentando aprobar actualmente.



INF?RMATE!
[/I][/B]


Mr. Lu

The Diogenes in me considers the above wish-thinking. I'll wait and see. Pero...
 

RonS

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Oct 18, 2004
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From a non-resident foreigner and frequent visitor, a question: are the proposed constitutional 'reforms' known to, and a topic of conversation and debate, among Dominican citizens and/or foreign residents? If so, what are some of thier views?
 

Lambada

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The Diogenes in me considers the above wish-thinking. I'll wait and see. Pero...

And the lessons of history aren't all that confidence inspiring :ermm:. This was Participaci?n Ciudadana's attempt to get a ruling of unconstitutionality against Ley 73-02
Sociedad civil elev? recurso de inconstitucionalidad

and this, I believe, was the result
Consulta Sentencias SCJ.

RonS, Participaci?n Ciudadana and Finjus have been active in challenging both the way this has been done as well as some of the content. Some of the articles on their website here:
PC se?ala recursos inconstitucionalidad es ejercicio de un derecho ciudadano

Vientos oportunistas sobre la Constituci?n

El Retroceso Constitucional

Yes it's a subject of debate among many Dominicans - see thread on Article 30 for example. I can only think of a handful of foreign residents with whom I have had discussions on the subject.
 

A.Hidalgo

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Apr 28, 2006
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Pardon for going off topic a bit, but what President Aria of Costa Rica said a few days ago may apply to the new Dominican constitution....:ermm:

``I forced myself to study the Honduras constitution,'' he said. ``I don't think there is a worse constitution on the face of this earth.''

The military environment that fostered Zelaya's ouster should be no surprise in a region that will spend $60 billion this year on its militaries, even as 200 million Latin Americans live in poverty, he said.

Costa Rican leader blasts decree - Americas Conference - MiamiHerald.com
 

Chip

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Pardon for going off topic a bit, but what President Aria of Costa Rica said a few days ago may apply to the new Dominican constitution....:ermm:

Quote:
``I forced myself to study the Honduras constitution,'' he said. ``I don't think there is a worse constitution on the face of this earth.''

The military environment that fostered Zelaya's ouster should be no surprise in a region that will spend $60 billion this year on its militaries, even as 200 million Latin Americans live in poverty, he said.


Costa Rican leader blasts decree - Americas Conference - MiamiHerald.com

Well, fortunately for all of Chavez's proteges, namely Leonel, he has cut back his military spending tremendously, uuh not! Is this what we have to look forward to in the DR one day???

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/25/world/americas/25venez.html
 
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? bient?t

Guest
Well, fortunately for all of Chavez's proteges, namely Leonel, he has cut back his military spending tremendously, uuh not! Is this what we have to look forward to in the DR one day???

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/25/world/americas/25venez.html

Firstly, I'll say what typical right-wingers usually say when confronted with similar facts about the US: "Hey, they have the right to defend themselves."

Secondly, what's a man like you using the NYT as a source? You folks surely are a strange bunch: disparage the paper when it's fashionable to do so, then quote it when it fits your agenda. Yes, you can have it both ways, credibility aside.
 

Chip

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Firstly, I'll say what typical right-wingers usually say when confronted with similar facts about the US: "Hey, they have the right to defend themselves."

Right, no doubt you are party to the theory that the best defense is a good offense.

You folks surely are a strange bunch: disparage the paper when it's fashionable to do so, then quote it when it fits your agenda. Yes, you can have it both ways, credibility aside.

You must have me confused with somebody else.
 

ExtremeR

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Mar 22, 2006
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The Supreme Court thing it's what will going to happen as those judges aren't too happy with the creation of the Tribunal Constitucional that may challenge their lead in the Justice branch. The congressman and Leonel/MVM hasn't thought about that yet, because if that happen they will have to restart all over again.
 

domilinguist

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Feb 22, 2008
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Translation of text posted by Mr. Lu:-

CHANGES IN THE CONSTITUTION THREATEN THE RIGHTS OF DOMINICAN CITIZENS

Below - a list of setbacks that will be put into place if the Constitution is changed. These are just some of the points taken from information in the press and from Participaci?n Ciudadana, although there are surely more.

1. Many collective rights will be suppressed including in the original reform project, such as the defence of common heritage, the right to enjoy property that belongs to the state, the right to peace, to development, to an honest and transparent public administration, to the use of scientific and technological advances, the right to have access to and freedom of expression in cyberspace, among others.

2, Citizens will no longer have the right to sue any law or legal ruling for unconstitutionality.

3. Neither will we have the constitutional right to be compensated or receive payment for damages or injury caused by property or services that are of bad quality.

4. The fact that public servants choose to give preference to their associates, family members, allies, friends or relations will no longer be punished.

5. Public servants will no longer, as is the case at the moment, have to present a sworn declaration of property owned.

6. The declaration in which senators and deputies are free or independent from decision-making and the fact that they should act according to their sacred duty to represent the public that elect them will now be eliminated. This means that they must now follow the guidelines of their parties, whose interests will be taken over those of the common man.

7. Access to public information will be conditioned as to what the state considers to be "truthful" and according to their own interests.

8. The most well-known point: that women with a high risk of pregnancy should be open to the possibility that they may die as a pregnancy will not be terminated under any circumstance...doing so would run the risk of being charged for a crime against the constitution.

9. The president will have increased power to get the nation into more debt without approval from the National Congress, and will be able to instate all the Vice Ministers that he wishes without any kind of limitation and to plan the national budget as he sees fit.

10. The Justice Department will lose its independence and will be taken down a rank to an executive role. Therefore the president will have more power to choose the appeal court attorneys and public prosecutors. This means that it will be more difficult to monitor corruption within the court.

11. A non-consecutive and non-defined re-election (the first and main reason for this bill) will not contribute to a surge in new leaders or a healthy turnover of power what it will do is maintain the same dinosaurs in power for decades. Can you imagine 30 years of Hip?lito or Leonel?

12. It will not be possible to sue a legislator without the approval of the Chamber he/she belongs to, for whatever reason. If a legislator hands over a cheque with no funds to someone, that person will not be able to sue over it.

13. The number of representatives will be increased to 190 (more money from the state for them, more positions to give out during the elections).

14. No-one will be able to accept a job on Dominican territory from a foreign government without the authorisation from the Executive Power. This affects hundreds of Dominicans who work in embassies in foreign countries.

15. The original reform in the proposal would have prohibited the reduction in protected areas but this has been changed so that two thirds of the Chamber approves it.

16. The Judicial Power Advisory will be able to move judges when they wish. This is a concept from the time of Trujillo which threatens the main principle regarding the immobility of judges and that has in the past meant that this could happen as a sanction without notification. In other words, it will be difficult to bring powerful people to justice.

17. A number of articles go against international human rights agreements such as nationality, sexuality, the right to religious freedom, etc.

18. And to end with a magic touch: it will be more difficult to modify the new constitution as the mechanisms established for this will be more demanding than the current ones in place.

CONCLUSION: Political parties are creating legal conditions for a modern dictatorship. They are looking to create a state that does not serve the citizen but that benefits from a population that is submissive and exploited.

We still have time: The Supreme Court of Justice should recognise the unconstitutionality claim highlighted by Participaci?n Ciudadana. The sentencing should annul the legal validity of the constitution project that at present certain people are attempting to approve.

Help to make these points known to raise awareness about what is happening and to construct a citizens' movement to denounce the modification of the constitution.

NO TO PARTY DICTATORSHIP. NO TO A CHANGE IN THE CONSTITUTION.
 
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pedrochemical

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Is all this constitution changing a recent phenomenon?
It seems to be a hot topic at the moment.
Is that because there is a new sustained attempt to amend it or are people finally getting fed up of progressive change over the years?

The points above are obviously somebody's personal take on each change but even so, it does look like the stage is being set for some less than democratic actions.

Again, is this happening more rapaciously these days?
 

domilinguist

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The take is from Participacion Ciudadana. I took the liberty of translating it but the points are all still valid and have all been proposed in the new constitution for congress. What all this implies, ladies and gentlemen, is EXTREMELY worrying.
 

Hillbilly

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There is now a group forming on Facebook: No al cambio a la Constituci?n.

This is a real cluster %^*&

HB
 

domilinguist

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The best comment I heard was on Huchi Lora's show on Monday. Basically as the current new law now stands in order to be recognised as a Dominican citizen you need to PROVE that your parents (if foreign) lived legally in the country. If I am to understand correctly, that means you must produce an original birth certificate of both parents PLUS all documentation to show they were legal residents. This now means that they would have to post-homously declare Pe?a G?mez, one of the most prominent Dominican political figures of the 20th century, as a non-Dominican as he does not fit this criteria! What an absolute circus of events.
 

mountainannie

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current law or proposed change?

The best comment I heard was on Huchi Lora's show on Monday. Basically as the current new law now stands in order to be recognised as a Dominican citizen you need to PROVE that your parents (if foreign) lived legally in the country. If I am to understand correctly, that means you must produce an original birth certificate of both parents PLUS all documentation to show they were legal residents. This now means that they would have to post-homously declare Pe?a G?mez, one of the most prominent Dominican political figures of the 20th century, as a non-Dominican as he does not fit this criteria! What an absolute circus of events.

This is the proposed change to the Constitution? Can you post the wording?
I have not heard any outcries on this from the "Dominicano Haitiano" constituents.

Does anyone know exactly where they are in the process? I know that Article 30 has had two readings and passed. What about the other proposed changes?
 

Chirimoya

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The best comment I heard was on Huchi Lora's show on Monday. Basically as the current new law now stands in order to be recognised as a Dominican citizen you need to PROVE that your parents (if foreign) lived legally in the country. If I am to understand correctly, that means you must produce an original birth certificate of both parents PLUS all documentation to show they were legal residents. This now means that they would have to post-homously declare Pe?a G?mez, one of the most prominent Dominican political figures of the 20th century, as a non-Dominican as he does not fit this criteria! What an absolute circus of events.
But a lot of people did anyway - he was always having to deal with disparaging remarks about him not really being Dominican.
 

mountainannie

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Denial of public access to beaches

Ciudades y Playas sin ?chopos? :: CLAVE digital m?vil

In this particular commentary, Tahira Vargas states that the new Constitution does indeed allow privatization all the beaches, and rivers. She mentions that Baguate Falls is now "owned" by a German who charges $10 for entry... is this true? I thought that the Kennedy peace corps volunteer was working with the local guides up there to help the community?