The Metro

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mountainannie

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Billions for mass transit
The government plans to spend RD$3.57 billion on the Mass Passenger Transport system, of which RD$728.1 million will go towards ground studies, evictions and other expenses linked to the second phase of the Santo Domingo Metro system. This Metro II system will connect Los Alcarrizos in the northeast of the city with San Luis in the municipality of Santo Domingo East.
According to the 2010 Budget legislative proposal sent to Congress by President Leonel Fernandez, under the chapter heading of "Projects", RD$2.85 billion is scheduled for the 14km Metro I line from Villa Mella to La Feria, but details of the allocation are not provided.
The first phase of the Metro II line will cost US$790 million. It will span 15 kilometers from Maximo Gomez Avenue to Los Alcarrizos. The second phase, which will be about the same length, will run from Maximo Gomez to San Isidro, at a similar cost.
The sum total of the cost of the two phases of Metro II is US$1.58 billion, or RD$55.88 billion, or 15% of this budget proposal.
As well as the Santo Domingo Metro, the government is giving priority to the cargo and passenger train that is planned to connect Haina and the city of Santiago de los Caballeros.


Today's news

I looked for another thread on this which I thought there might be but could not find it..

Does anyone know where the line is going to run to San Isidro? Along which avenue? This part could actually be useful since it can now take 2 hours by bus to get across the river in the morning....

maps?
 
bienamor

bienamor

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PM Pichardo

If its not availiable he will make one up!
 
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Mr. Lu

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Does anyone know where you can get the route for Metro II, or the Corredor Duarte. I have looked and haven't found didlly squat on that....


Lu
 
Hillbilly

Hillbilly

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According to a note i saw yesterday Metro II (Part 1) will go from Los Alcarrizos to Maximo Gomez. It will supposedly cost 700 million US (but these guys have NEVER, EVER brought a project in on budget...THEN Metro II (part 2) will go from Maximo Gomez to San Luis over in East Sto Dgo....Talk about a boondoggle....oh man...

HB ( remembers when it cost 10? to go from Maximo Gomez to Parque Isabel la Cat?lica on Ave. Independencia)
 
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RacerX

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this is a waste. you could better use the money to purchase a fleet of 5,000 alternative fuel buses, employ the carro publico drivers as the AMET(MTA) route driver. I doubt it would take so long this way to go across town because whereas on ragged Corolla could carry 6 people including the driver. Even the smallest bus(with a 4cyl turbodiesel or CNG/H/LP equipped) could carry 15 people, and here probably 25...removing average 3-6 old cars from the road. You get a salaried driver who is rewarded for promptness, people get places on time a big city here resembles a big city there. Bigger and better man...But this is just kickback politics. I heard the French government is going to underwrite the Santiago Metro...of course granted it uses French equipment and consultants from start to finish, and think about those lucrative service contracts?
 
Hillbilly

Hillbilly

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London: World's greatest economy at that time
New York: Largest city in the US, in one of the world's fastest growing economies.

Santo Domingo: Largest city in a country the size of West Virginia. Economy in major deficit. Funding with loans that won't be paid for in 30 years.

Just a wee bit of difference.

There are hugely different alternatives for rapid transit systems that cost a lot less, but then the rake-off is less...gee, I wonder what the PLD alternative will be????

HB
 
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RacerX

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mountainannie said:
I just wonder... I mean what about london and nyc... when they were built it must have seemed like a huge waste of money at the time as well?
Click to expand...

I agree with Hillbilly here there are just more cost effective measures to implement. I mean for sure there was a lot of graft in the construction of every major city subway in North America(maybe less so in Canada), but in Philly, Chicago and DC, come on. Even in NY in the 1960s the construction of the IND lines created a disastrous situation in the 1970s when those GO bonds came due and the tax revenues werent there.
But my point is that these cities all made an effort to urban plan cohesively and conjunctively. They formulated water delivery systems and a waste water treatment systems. Programs to deliver products and sanitation systems to remove them. Public safety and education, museums and libraries. This is what separates those cities from Santo Domingo and Santiago. These people cannot pick up the trash nor have any land use regs on the books at all. You go to some neighborhood by the river and the smell...you can see the phosphates in the water from the suds and overexcessive anaerobic plant growth. You see the hillside covered in soda bottles and other easily recyclable garbage. And you say...a subway is not a priority not at this point in time. We should be comparing the subway of this developing economy with those in other areas, more proximal, like South America. I know Sao Paolo, Buenos Aires, Bogota de Fe and Santiago de Chile have one, much needed and well utilised. The one in Caracas is new, Mexico City is encircles the entire city like the one in Paris. Rio? San Juan? etc? No se.
 
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mountainannie

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Well i know that it is common wisdom to trash the Metro but honestly the traffic in SDQ is becoming completely intolerable.. so high speed buses are only going to make a difference if they can fly. There has to be a way of moving a lot of people over a distance in a short time..

I know what you mean about the lack of planning or seeming lack of planning here.. I do see the trash picked up here every morning, but the people just throw it back ON the streets an hour later... they say well if we buy a trash barrell it will be stolen.... so I do not know ... and somehow, water does come to my building, and the whole of the city... every day. So SOMEONE somewhere is doing some planning.

And I agree that the money for the subway is borrowed... but I am sure that all the other money was borrowed on municipal bonds.. the DR uses the IMF and the World Bank as their VISA card and bond issuers.... now it may not be how the system was intended but it is how it is working out...

i do know that it takes about two hours to get from Gazcue to the Mega Centro on the east side every day.. And that is going AGAINST traffic.....So clearly that is not a sustainable transport idea.

Even though few people are using the MEtro now... you have to grant them that they DID finish it. and it IS working... which means.. well,... it was not just a ...

bridge to nowhere....

(I do still stand on my objection to Leonel.s use of the Hallelujah chorus as the sound track for his promo video of it... he would have been really really railed at had this been a more protestant, nay more internationally cultured country... tasteless at best)
 
Hillbilly

Hillbilly

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My long-time solution (now approaching 50 years) is to get rid of all the publicars. The conchos are a major source of traffic issues.
Then, do like Mexico City. Odd Days and Even Days for private vehicles. More buses on express lanes-you go on those lanes at your own risk and whatever happens you are at fault.
A separate electic circuit for traffic lights that would allow rational timing for maximum traffic flows.
More under/overpasses. (They are working on this now)
Eliminate any stoplights on the Duarte Highway with Under/Overpasses, my God, they are so stupid...
Did I say get rid of the conchos? and Moto conchos....too.

HB
 
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Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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Odd days and even days favours families with two cars and is an incentive for those with just one car to buy another. It ends up making things worse - as happened when they tried it in Caracas.

Curitiba in Brazil and Bogot? are better models than Mexico City IMO.

YouTube - City Of Dreams - Brazil
 
bienamor

bienamor

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guagwa designated stops with pulloffs so they are not blocking traffic every 30 feet, and keep the cobrador in the bus not stopping traffic for customers to cross the street.

and to repeat Hillbilly conchos of all types. Reasonable parking instead of where ever the hell you want to.
 
Hillbilly

Hillbilly

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I have to agree with Lerner, and he puts/put out a lot of what I suggested and what another poster suggested above. Buses!!

Get rid of cars in many areas...oh my...but he has traffic buthe also provides huge, really huge bus service--not subsidized....Good Gracious, where will I get my cut???

Can it be done in Santo Domingo? Yes, butnot by this government. They do not have any Jaime Lerner. There are perhaps three urban planners that I know of but we don't have any hope of doing more than than talk...

HB
Mobility
Sustainability
and ???
 
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RacerX

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another thing is thats slows traffic movement a lot is the city is not on a grid. SO thatif one wants to go points east or south or north there are only 2 or 3 avenues that do so. Which makes everyone bleed out onto this avenue. There are streets that start out going east and break northwest. Why? Why not just rename the boulevard and have it go in one specific direction? And then there are the intricacies of route mapping. No bus only lanes, no left turn only lanes, no sequencing of traffic lights like in Manhattan to keep traffic moving a mile at a time.
 
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mountainannie

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crossing lights

bienamor said:
guagwa designated stops with pulloffs so they are not blocking traffic every 30 feet, and keep the cobrador in the bus not stopping traffic for customers to cross the street.

and to repeat Hillbilly conchos of all types. Reasonable parking instead of where ever the hell you want to.
Click to expand...


without the cobradors stopping traffic for us pedestrians... there is NO hope that we could ever cross the street... The drivers would as soon kill us as stop... after all, what could we count for, we, who do not have cars?
 
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ExtremeR

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Mar 22, 2006
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RacerX said:
this is a waste. you could better use the money to purchase a fleet of 5,000 alternative fuel buses, employ the carro publico drivers as the AMET(MTA) route driver. I doubt it would take so long this way to go across town because whereas on ragged Corolla could carry 6 people including the driver. Even the smallest bus(with a 4cyl turbodiesel or CNG/H/LP equipped) could carry 15 people, and here probably 25...removing average 3-6 old cars from the road. You get a salaried driver who is rewarded for promptness, people get places on time a big city here resembles a big city there. Bigger and better man...But this is just kickback politics. I heard the French government is going to underwrite the Santiago Metro...of course granted it uses French equipment and consultants from start to finish, and think about those lucrative service contracts?
Click to expand...

They already did that, is called OMSA, a huge failure.
 
bienamor

bienamor

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ExtremeR said:
They already did that, is called OMSA, a huge failure.
Click to expand...

OMSA was not a failure it moves a huge amount of people, but could have been much much better.

The problem was there was NO enforcement of keeping their lanes free(AMET's Original Function), no enforcement of arrival/departure times on the routes. and apparently no maintenance, as they are consistently breaking down.
 
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RacerX

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ExtremeR said:
They already did that, is called OMSA, a huge failure.
Click to expand...

OK, did it fail because it was badly run, badly managed, badly equipped, badly supervised or badly compensated?
Did it fail because there was no way to steal enough money without being seen? Or was there not enough money to steal?
Or did it fail because it was supposed to? In order to introduce the subway system that in its execution and engineering finds all types of ways to steal?
 
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