Umm, your Dominican friend reminds me alot of AA's drinking Colt 45 and molt liquor, at 10 in the morning. I personally saw this with my own eyes, as I clerked in the local neighborhood "Bodega" while I went to school in the States.
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Black in Latin America- Ep. 1- Haiti & the Dominican Republic- An Island Divided
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Umm, your Dominican friend reminds me alot of AA's drinking Colt 45 and molt liquor, at 10 in the morning. I personally saw this with my own eyes, as I clerked in the local neighborhood "Bodega" while I went to school in the States.
And now after what happen in Newtown Conn her school is like a "fortress" now. They even have a guard at the front and only entrance to the school. Also it is not a lot of options in Chicago where there is much diversity and no behavioral problems. I would love if I can sent her to "The Chicago Lab School" this is the same school the Obama girls attended bfore they moved to D.C. but tuition is like 25,000USD a year. I really think her school is a great place to learn I mean all of the kids must have their own Ipad, but the only draw back its a few African American, Asian American and a couple from the Middle East, but really no latin children, and that is what she will miss out on, how to interact with other children from Spanish speaking countries.
And that is a WRAP!!! Thank you DR1 for allowing this day to go by very fast. THREE DAY WEEKEND BABY!!!! It is 5:30 which mean I am outta here.
To everyone enjoy your three day weekend and I will catch you on Tuesday morning or afternoon, but if you are in DR then just enjoy being a Dominican or an expat in DR.
Peace Love and Soul!!! if you didn't know this is from the "Soul Train"
To everyone enjoy your three day weekend and I will catch you on Tuesday morning or afternoon, but if you are in DR then just enjoy being a Dominican or an expat in DR.
Peace Love and Soul!!! if you didn't know this is from the "Soul Train"
...Well , all in all , we can be certain of what we already knew.
Dominican people are great but ultrasensitive about being perceived as an African related nation (specially
white or mulatto Dominicans with higher education) and they think world history has been partial to Haiti.
Good side to this story is that as a poor nation they are unable to invade Haiti or to declare war to others.
Dominican people are great but ultrasensitive about being perceived as an African related nation (specially
white or mulatto Dominicans with higher education) and they think world history has been partial to Haiti.
Good side to this story is that as a poor nation they are unable to invade Haiti or to declare war to others.
what is so shocking about drinking beer at 10am? i have seen guys on their second beer when i am having coffee at 8.30.
Yeah I know, I saw many AA's drinking this early in the morning, and some other malt called "crazy horse" I think was the name.
If you were to just skim through any history book of the island, you will notice that the Dominicans are not the belligerent ones that felt the need to control their neighbors. All the wars we have fought against Haiti were reactionary to their aggression, not vice versa. Every single one. Had they never attempted to invade, there would had never been a war against them. Plus, every war was always in defense of our territorial and cultural integrity, which is why in every war against the Haitians, Dominicans desisted once the Haitians crossed onto their side of the island. If we truly wanted to get rid of them, we could had invaded their country as they did to us, but we didn't in the past and it will never occur in the future.
Dominicans have never cared what Haitians did or how they lived on their side. Its their country and they can do what the they want over there. The problem is that we were not really given the same courtesy for many years. There was always a foreign power that wanted to stick their noses where it was never invited and that caused many of the problems.
Learn the history before assuming things about this island. Or better yet, whatever you are assuming, the complete opposite is probably true.
The ugliest scene I ever saw was when my ex Dominican wife and son were two black Dominicans in a store in an all white suburban neighborhood in the USA. I look mixed with the classic Puerto Rico complexion. An old, angry white lady looked at them and called them the N word and went on a rant about black people. I eventually would tell her to go to hell and she would shut up. While she was going on a rant about them being N%$@#@s who cut her in line, my ex wife and son spoke spanish to me about the lady and the lady said ok you are N^&$s who speak spanish. My ex wife had only been here for three weeks. She immediately learned that she is a N%$#@ in the USA. She quickly learned that she is black here and called back to the DR and schooled her family on the USA putting people as black but in the DR they say Brown or even white in a lot of cases or mixed. She knew she was black by the USA standards and that never left her head. My son bonds with black people and just like he is Dominican he says black because the whites in school would fight the blacks and his skin was black. He does not like Haitians but does bond with all blacks except for Haitians due to his negative experiences in a racist school system in the USA.
All it is is that the Spanish handled their colonies by mixing everything up into one culture and being prideful. The English were more arrogant, harsh, mean and racist. They were all about being racist and putting people with a drop or two of non british blood at the bottom of everything. They killed off the indians instead of mixing them into society like the Spanish did. The english were harsh on the indians in india and any colony they had. Now in America they take that same old school British attitude and try to say everyone who is not full blooded european, white, straight and male has something wrong with them. Just like the English took the scottish and irish in europe and put them beneath them in their system. America is very racist because their roots are from England. The Spanish former colonies are more prideful and less racist than the English because their ways are from Spain.
Just a few random thoughts ......
R A C E ........
Arguing about "race" is like arguing about religion. Everyone has a set of beliefs and they're not likely to change. Race is a man-made (European) invention. It does not exist, except as a concept (power, entitlement, tribal category, etc.) in our minds.
And the concept of race is recent in man's history. It has become so important, to some, that it has even been used to re-write history. A tool ... or a weapon, if you will.
Before it was invented, there were no black people, nor white people. There were only people. Color was sometimes used only as a description. Class ... education ... power ... wealth ... none of it was associated with "race". People of all colors were known to have had all of these same things. Race is/was a recent development in man's history.
Of course, we can always continue to argue about race ... but there will likely never be agreement about what it means. And certainly no agreement about what it means to each individual. It's just seems to be too engrained in all of us now to be easily eliminated ....
So, who invented race?
What Is Race ? Definition of Race and Science of Race
Historical race concepts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A M E R I C A N S ...........
America is a continent ... not a country. A Mexican, Canadian, Colombian, even a Venezualan is an American. We, in the US, choose to call ourselves "Americans", when we are actually from the United States (of America). We also tend to complain when someone comes up with another "description". Who really has the right to say ....
And by the way, there ARE "European-Americans".
European Americans
I M P R O V I N G -T H E -R A C E ............
If I have a child with someone who is white, that child will probably look more like me than like her. That child will be "mixed race", or black, or ..... depends on where you live and how such things get defined. However, the child will NOT be white. Someone who is white cannot have a white child with someone who is "a person of color". They may (or may not) "look" white ... but they will still be "a person of color".
That being said ... if you continue to "improve the race" ... eventually there will be no more white people. We have to wonder if that is what people really mean when they say "improve the race" .... because that WILL be the ultimate result.
S P A I N ..................
Spain had a long (common) history with Africa (it's less than 10 miles between the two). And there seems to be evidence of more than a little African blood running through Spanish veins. After all, the Moors ruled Spain for centuries.
Some historians would say that the Moors were all Arabs/Middle Easterners, and NOT black Africans. But there are records to the contrary. In fact, a significant number were actually black Africans (and not slaves). One can do one's own research ... but you may want to check a number of sources.
Now, I am NOT saying that Spaniards are black. That kind of thinking could only be according to the old US government definition, which was based on the "one drop rule" that was imposed on Americans of color. Spaniards are entitled to define themselves however they wish. And they define themselves as white. As do their descendents.
But, do note, that there just may have been a little resentment about having been occupied by "Africans", along with the possible "tweaking" of some history (and gene pool?). And so ... when it comes to history ... very little is new .....
____________________________________________________________________
Call yourself whatever you wish. But call me/us/each/all "individuals".
You cannot categorize someone else without someone else categorizing YOU!
____________________________________________________________________
R A C E ........
Arguing about "race" is like arguing about religion. Everyone has a set of beliefs and they're not likely to change. Race is a man-made (European) invention. It does not exist, except as a concept (power, entitlement, tribal category, etc.) in our minds.
And the concept of race is recent in man's history. It has become so important, to some, that it has even been used to re-write history. A tool ... or a weapon, if you will.
Before it was invented, there were no black people, nor white people. There were only people. Color was sometimes used only as a description. Class ... education ... power ... wealth ... none of it was associated with "race". People of all colors were known to have had all of these same things. Race is/was a recent development in man's history.
Of course, we can always continue to argue about race ... but there will likely never be agreement about what it means. And certainly no agreement about what it means to each individual. It's just seems to be too engrained in all of us now to be easily eliminated ....
So, who invented race?
What Is Race ? Definition of Race and Science of Race
Historical race concepts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A M E R I C A N S ...........
America is a continent ... not a country. A Mexican, Canadian, Colombian, even a Venezualan is an American. We, in the US, choose to call ourselves "Americans", when we are actually from the United States (of America). We also tend to complain when someone comes up with another "description". Who really has the right to say ....
And by the way, there ARE "European-Americans".
European Americans
I M P R O V I N G -T H E -R A C E ............
If I have a child with someone who is white, that child will probably look more like me than like her. That child will be "mixed race", or black, or ..... depends on where you live and how such things get defined. However, the child will NOT be white. Someone who is white cannot have a white child with someone who is "a person of color". They may (or may not) "look" white ... but they will still be "a person of color".
That being said ... if you continue to "improve the race" ... eventually there will be no more white people. We have to wonder if that is what people really mean when they say "improve the race" .... because that WILL be the ultimate result.
S P A I N ..................
Spain had a long (common) history with Africa (it's less than 10 miles between the two). And there seems to be evidence of more than a little African blood running through Spanish veins. After all, the Moors ruled Spain for centuries.
Some historians would say that the Moors were all Arabs/Middle Easterners, and NOT black Africans. But there are records to the contrary. In fact, a significant number were actually black Africans (and not slaves). One can do one's own research ... but you may want to check a number of sources.
Now, I am NOT saying that Spaniards are black. That kind of thinking could only be according to the old US government definition, which was based on the "one drop rule" that was imposed on Americans of color. Spaniards are entitled to define themselves however they wish. And they define themselves as white. As do their descendents.
But, do note, that there just may have been a little resentment about having been occupied by "Africans", along with the possible "tweaking" of some history (and gene pool?). And so ... when it comes to history ... very little is new .....
____________________________________________________________________
Call yourself whatever you wish. But call me/us/each/all "individuals".
You cannot categorize someone else without someone else categorizing YOU!
____________________________________________________________________
All God's Children by Fox Butterfield.....a VERY provocative book. Cannot recommend it enough.
Ouch!!!!! This is one of the most brutal posts I've ever seen from you JMB773. Unfortunately, you're absolutely right! However....be that as it may, I've watched the documentary and I wanted to add something. First off, try not to be so hard on Dominicans for rejecting their Blackness. Rather than blasting them, I'd like to understand why they feel this way, and the documentary went a long ways towards explaining that. The situation in Haiti is not exactly the same as the DR. It was made clear in the documentary that the Haitian elites chose to embrace their blackness, while the Dominican Elite rejected theirs. The general populations of each respective country would naturally embrace the values of the ruling class.
In the books I've read on the DR, it has also been made clear that the Dominican elite is largely of Spanish heritage. These are actual Spaniards who descend from the original conquerors of the island. Remember, the Dominicans didn't wipe out the Spanish in the DR the way the Haitians erased the French in Haiti. According to what the documentary said, Jean Jacques Dessalines wiped out the French completely, leaving the Haitian population mostly Black and mulatto. The Haitian elite had no trouble embracing their blackness so it wasn't a problem there. Plus, the Haitian economy had a slave plantation system whereas the Domninican republic evolved into a livestock cattle ranching system, and in the film they explained that this further changed social dynamics between the two countries since there was more racial mixing on the Dominican side.
Let me finally say that I can understand why Dominicans feel the way they feel. First off, am I the only on here who can see that their African ancestors sold them out? West Africans not only failed to defeat the Europeans, the history books I've read make it clear that African chiefs and kings were actively involved in selling other Africans into slavery, facilitating the slave trade. Europeans had a demand for slaves but Africans provided them with the supply. Had African kings formed alliances and acquired/reversed engineered European technology, the Europeans could have been pushed out of Africa and the slave trade could have been stopped.......but they didn't. The fact of the matter is that Dominicans and African Americans like me are indeed mixed PLUS we are separated from Africa by centuries. Our cultures are different and many continental Africans themselves would see both Dominicans and Africans Americans and Haitians as being outsiders.
I agree with your post 100%. Dominicans have the right to call themselves mixed because they are. My own mother, like Dominicans, has defined herself as being "mixed" even though I reference myself as being Black. Dominicans have the right to call themselves whatever they want, and truthfully, it really isn't my business what they call themselves. Indios, mixed, martians, it has no relevance in my life. And you're spot on when you say most Africans would see Dominicans as mixed. Many African Americans have been horrified to go to Africa only to find that the locals there see them as being Americans.
Here is how I see it. My African ancestors were sold out by the African rulers. The slave trade succeeded because the African kings were imbeciles who couldn't effectively battle the Europeans, and even today those sorry ass "presidents" over in Africa still can't get their act together, turning over all their minerals and resources to European, American and now Chinese companies while their own people grovel in poverty. Africa is in fact a failed continent and why would Dominicans won't to associate themselves with a continent from which their ancestors were enslaved, and today still hasn't learned from the mistakes of the past? If I were born in the DR I would probably reject my Blackness to. I was born in the USA, so I don't, but I can put myself in the shoes of the Dominicanos and I know where they're coming from. Africa hasn't exactly given us a lot to be proud of, has it?
I recognize my African heritage and I have no love for my White slave holding ancestors. However......I realize that it is wrong to expect Dominicans to embrace their Blackness. And, I would advise both African Americans and even Dominican Americans who come to the DR or who have lived abroad to avoid discussing the subject of Blackness with the locals. It is a sensitive subject, and like Dominican politics, is best avoided, especially by foreigners.
Black people don't realize that the "one drop rule" has harmed them, rather than helping. Why do I say this? Because anyone who has studied Black American history closely knows that many of the so called "Blacks" who were the first to do this or that were actually Mulattos, not Black people. My analysis of Black American history indicates that Whites have consistently and systematically used Mulattos and other light complexion Blacks, and have promoted them over Blacks who are darker skinned.........want some examples?
Lets start with Barack Obama. Technically, he is is a mulatto, not Black, yet Black Americans call him the first Black president? But did you people know that the first "Black senator" in the U.S. was also a mulatto? It is true, his name is Blanche K. Bruce, go Google it. What about the "first Black Miss America" Vanessa Williams. Lets be honest, Vanessa Williams has strong European features, and doesn't really look Black at all. Blacks don't understand that the one drop rule is used to manipulate them. During the Vietnam war, many American soldiers got Vietnamese women pregnant, and the Vietnamese society completely rejected the mixed race babies. The situation was so bad that the American government had to create special programs to bring these kids to the U.S. The reason for that is because the Vietnamese jealously guarded their racial purity/identity. The Vietnamese would NEVER accept a one drop rule. In Vietnam if your mommy and daddy ain't Vietnamese then you will never be accepted! Blacks seem to be the only group that wants to incorporate anyone with Black blood as being Black, and this is stupid, as it allows mulattos and other mixed Blacks to be promoted by White society ABOVE authentic pure Blacks! It makes no sense! Plus it makes Black people LOOK DESPERATE. Why are Blacks so keen on incorporating anyone with a drop of Black blood into their ranks? Is it because of an inferiority complex? This is the exact opposite of the Vietnamese and Japanese, who have traditionally rejected anyone of mixed ancestry!
This is one of the reasons why I left the U.S., because race relations there are screwed up. The thing is, I don't have to worry about being targeted in the DR because I'm Black. In the USA it is a constant reality. I also read about a Dominican guy living in the USA who returned to the DR precisely because he to recognized the racism in the U.S. But Needless to say it is a grave mistake to look at race relations in the DR through an American lens. The two nations have a totally different history.
I don't necessarily think being "mixed race" is a good thing. I admire the Japanese and Vietnamese(I'm slightly jealous of them actually) because they've ruthlessly protected their racial/ethnic/cultural identity. The Japanese are so ruthless that they will check your records to find out if you're actually Japanese. And this is one of the reasons why I think Japan has become what it is. Racial mixing causing a lot of confusion because to be "mixed" doesn't normally carry a positive connotation. Women like "pure" diamonds. Pure breed dogs carry higher price tags than mutts. Humans naturally place a higher value on things which are pure, versus things which are mixed. This is why, despite being mixed myself, I shy away from calling myself that. I prefer the word Black because at least Black means something. When someone says mixed, the natural reaction is, mixed with what? When someone says they're Japanese, there is no need for clarification.
And I have an idea of what the mixed race movement is about. I've read the history. Traditionally, in certain parts of Latin America, the Elites(Who were usually White), encouraged racial mixing among the lower classes to keep them weak, and divided. Meanwhile, the White elite families themselves would always keep their bloodlines pure. This is a method that can be used to control populations. I've read that they tried it in Colombia and the Black Colombians recognized the threat and fled into the jungles to start their own communities. Racial mixing can be dangerous, and this is why the Japanese and Vietnamese have been so ruthless in fighting it. Biologically, racial mixing is beneficial because it creates genetic diversity, but culturally and socially, it can be disastrous. Put it this way, if the Japanese or Vietnamese mixed to the extent that Dominicans have, their entire culture, ethnic group, nation would be destroyed.
Why does it surprise you Africaida? Look at the history of West Africa and how their ancestors ended up on Hispaniola. The African ancestors of Dominicans came to this island because they and their incompetent leaders in Africa failed to stop the Europeans. Ask yourself this, why would Dominicans want to identify with a group of people who were enslaved and brutalized for centuries do to their own stupidity? I've read the history Africaida, Black historians themselves have admitted that West Africans helped the Europeans build the same forts that were later used to enslave them.
If you want the evidence, I can point you to the book on Amazon that talks about it, it was written by John Henrik Clarke, a Black man. Now, you'd have to one stupid moron to help foreigners built a FORT on your land! A fort is a military base. it would be the equivalent of the USA allowing the Chinese to build a military base a mile away from the Pentagon or White House, its retarded! I've read the history Africaida, and West Africans were morons. The Europeans outfoxed them then and they're still doing it today. Africa is run by incompetent, stupid, selfish dictators who keep their people in poverty while turning all the gold, platinum, oil and diamonds to the Chinese, Europeans, Arabs, and everybody else!
It is this same stupidity that caused the slave trade, and Africans still haven't learned. Now, why on Earth would Dominicans want to identify with them? Add to this the fact that Dominicans are mixed, influenced by Spanish and speaking the Spanish language, plus they've been separated from Africans for centuries.......of course Dominicans will have a problem with their Blackness. Its the Blacks in Africa that caused them to be in the DR in the first place. And given how bad things are in many parts of Africa, I'd much rather be in the DR than over there!
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