I completely agree with Bob. Why would poor people spend the little money they have in private schools if the public school system were any good? Doesn't make sense.
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writing skills of Dominicans
I completely agree with Bob. Why would poor people spend the little money they have in private schools if the public school system were any good? Doesn't make sense.
I wonder what poor people are you talking about?
Poor people don't send their kids to private bilingual school and then send them to the U.S of A to study!!!!!!!!
Those are middle/upper middle class/rich family that usually travel or had lived here in the U.S. and they kids are American citizen, and have a strong based in English Language.
The best student in the DR come from public school, best lawyers, architects, engineers come from "La Universidad Autonoma de Santo Domingo".
The majority of the public schools that I saw, basically sucked. Teachers in those schools said the same thing, they wanna do better, but they dont have the resources and the salary is just TOO low. I heard Dominicans in general say the same thing about the public schools.
I dont have that much experience with private schools, but it would be really bad if they are even WORSE then a public school. I dont really understand either why somebody would pay (a lot) of money to go to a school that is worse then a public school.
BUT, I also want to say that comparing results between public and private schools is not that easy, or at least drawing a conclusion about the quality of the schools is not that easy.
Because private schools cost money, sometimes a lot of money, as a result only rich(er) kids go there, rich kids come from rich families, who (in general) stimulate their children more and normally have better education themselves too.
A lot of children in public schools don't have this kind of support, sometimes they have to work at an early age and drop out. So even if the quality of public and private schools is the same, public schools are more likely to have a lower score.
And now that I think about it, this might also be a reason why people send their children rather to a private school then a public school (apart from quality of education) they might think there are less 'bad influences'.
I dont have that much experience with private schools, but it would be really bad if they are even WORSE then a public school. I dont really understand either why somebody would pay (a lot) of money to go to a school that is worse then a public school.
BUT, I also want to say that comparing results between public and private schools is not that easy, or at least drawing a conclusion about the quality of the schools is not that easy.
Because private schools cost money, sometimes a lot of money, as a result only rich(er) kids go there, rich kids come from rich families, who (in general) stimulate their children more and normally have better education themselves too.
A lot of children in public schools don't have this kind of support, sometimes they have to work at an early age and drop out. So even if the quality of public and private schools is the same, public schools are more likely to have a lower score.
And now that I think about it, this might also be a reason why people send their children rather to a private school then a public school (apart from quality of education) they might think there are less 'bad influences'.
Just to be clear, when I'm talking about public and private schools, im talking about high school. Not about universities.
I heard in a lot of cases its better to go to a public university then to a private one.
My wife is a proud graduate of La Universidad Autonoma de Santo Domingo, but she went to a private high school and she is not from upper middle class or rich family. There are certainly lots of fine lawyers(oxymoron) and other professions that have graduated from UASD but it isn't highly recognized outside the country. Many family's in the DR have US Visas or residency that are not rich or even upper middle class- the same applies for many that are in Europe. You are simply wrong in your statements. I'm still waiting for your proof.
Some of Yris's teacher once they have the experience(padded their resume) at her school work very hard to get a job with the public school system because once your in, your in. They don't have someone like Yris making them perform to a certain standard and they can basically do as little as they want. By Dominican standards the pay isn't that bad either.
Your statement about bad influences is true for some parents. They like the fact that their children are in a secure, safe environment. Yris's brother and cousin stay after school until the last child is picked up, and if for some reason a parent doesn't show up they take them home with them. On more than one occasion I've seen parents show up 3-4 hours late. By this time the child has been fed supper...etc - that doesn't happen at a public school.
I'm talking about poor people like the lady that cleans my moms house. She is poor and sends her two kids to private school (not a bilingual school). If the public schools are so great, why not use the money on something else?
There's no way in the world that your mother's house cleaner would send her kids to a private school at such an elevated cost, unless it was truly superior in a big way.
Other than a few exceptions, it is clear that private schools are better than public.
As it has been said and repeated, who in their right mind would pay extra to send their kids to an inferior school?
It's so clear and evident, that I can't believe there's even a discussion about it.
It's like arguing that a Kia is better than a Lexus.
There's no way in the world that your mother's house cleaner would send her kids to a private school at such an elevated cost, unless it was truly superior in a big way.
I along with bob saunders await those figures, but again can you really trust stats given to us by the Dominican Education Department run by the likes of Alejandrina.
If you bother to do a little research you will find independent studies confirming the difference between the quality of education in public and private schools. The study deals with reading and mathematical skills. Grades 3rd,4th and 5th were part of the study, as these are fundamental grades for the correct development of a sound educational foundation.
EERC
click "April report 2006"
In my experience, Dominicans tend to spell phonically, hence the b replacing the v, q used for que, etc. I can only surmise this is due to a lack of reading in school. If one doesn't see(read) a word, then one simply spells the word as it sounds. I have seen this time and again with Dominican friends of mine, and kids of friends of mine who put in their half day of school, with recess in that time as well. Four hours isn't a long period of time to study multiple subjects, and the spelling skills, as well as math(hence the necessity of calculators for every transaction) are not taught adequately IMHO. Have a question about a function on your cell phone? Ask the young lady in the kacki skirt and blue shirt,and she'll have it fixed pronto!
this, i have to say, is also the truth for english native speakers, i believe i had to correct the spelling of all my teachers in london (english, americans, canadians and australians) simply because they have never SEEN a word they used so many times.
i don't know much about spelling of dominicans but it was here, in DR, that i saw someone sign they payslip with and X....
From personal experiences of talking to my father and the elders, yes it is common that dominicans, atleast dominicans who grew up in the countrysides, or in the marginalized parts of the cities don't write the same, this is for 2 reasons. #1. Dominicans having alot of African and Taino blood, two people which had a MULTITUDE of languages and cultures. And when you try to teach a non-spanish speaker spanish they will always learn but never as exact as a native speaker, and this reflects in the countryside, i am actually proud of this, it shows our cultural resistance to hispanization.
On the other hand, it can also be a result of not being able to go to school due to poverty. See but this one i am not 100% with because my father was poor, but he went to school, he almost finished college, was in his junior or senior year, i forget, he studied electromechanics. Yet many times when he writes papers he places his s'es in the wrong places, or doenst put them, replaces V's wtih B's, and alot of interesting linguistic characteristics. And my father is a very smart man, but this shows that many dominicans simply WRITE as they Talk, and there is nothing wrong wtih this, this isnt bad writing skills, its just a product of our culture.
On the other hand, it can also be a result of not being able to go to school due to poverty. See but this one i am not 100% with because my father was poor, but he went to school, he almost finished college, was in his junior or senior year, i forget, he studied electromechanics. Yet many times when he writes papers he places his s'es in the wrong places, or doenst put them, replaces V's wtih B's, and alot of interesting linguistic characteristics. And my father is a very smart man, but this shows that many dominicans simply WRITE as they Talk, and there is nothing wrong wtih this, this isnt bad writing skills, its just a product of our culture.
I don't buy the 'cultural' reason for poor spelling in any language. Basically, that is simply an excuse for a population not having mastered their language in the written form. If won cant corecktlee spell ones' nativ language even in evryday contextes, how can won comunicat in anythings but street bisness, let alon akademik or filosofical areenas?
In the DR there are a lot of "escuelitas de patio" that charges and basically provide very basic elementary "education". In these schools you would see 2 or 3 grades lump together. In my experience, I attended a couple of these schools, and I think this is why I never liked school much. The only time that I felt I was getting a good education was in third and sixth grade where I attended a public school (3rd grade) and a parochial (private) school in 6th grade. The teachers were more dedicated and every grades were in their own room. In my opinion all "escuelita de patio" should be banned. Anyone in the DR can open one of these school and charge a lot. To be honest, I have learned more proper spanish in the US and in the DR.
Another point I like to point out about my culture is that if you graduate in a profession you are believed to be an expert, and no one should question your knowledge and experience in the field/matter. It is an insult to request proof and asked how the work will be done. For example, an engineer, if you ask him questions or decide that his approach/design is not what you are looking for, they would walk away and leave you hanging. I know I am making a general statement, but I have heard and seen a lot to make this blanket statement. Dominican believes that a diploma make a person an experienced professional.
Another point I like to point out about my culture is that if you graduate in a profession you are believed to be an expert, and no one should question your knowledge and experience in the field/matter. It is an insult to request proof and asked how the work will be done. For example, an engineer, if you ask him questions or decide that his approach/design is not what you are looking for, they would walk away and leave you hanging. I know I am making a general statement, but I have heard and seen a lot to make this blanket statement. Dominican believes that a diploma make a person an experienced professional.
Oh, my experiences in my years here have been the same. Hence my smirk when I hear the title "maestro' on a construction site. I love the DR and the other latino countries that I have lived in, but I really can't see how not being able to spell in your primary language can be attributed to anything other than lack of education, at least in the language that you speak every day. No offense Super Conejo, but deficiencies in something as basic as everyday spelling point to an educational problem. To say that it is cultural demeans the culture, a disservice that the DR doesn't deserve.
That is because dominican people has different cultures mixed in the island and the people tries to keep their ancients culture, but nowdays that has ben changing with the tourism, and the different people from other countries that are moving permanently in Dominican Republic.
Arlette
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Arlette
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is it really fair to say that because 400 years ago colombus came here and not long after some african slaves came that now, TODAY, we don't speak spanish? i am firstnation, my family lives on a reservation in the united states. and nobody blames their language skills on something that happened 400 years ago (given, they do blame it on the here and now of poverty an government deception but that is not that same as saying "well, you came here so long ago and we're a mix of cultures, therefore we don't speak the language well.")
the truth is that the education is poor. balaguer, when he was president, talked about how he wanted an uneducated people. how else would he and his party be able to dominate? and it hasn't gotten much better since him - look at the money allotted to schooling in recent years... and look at how much money alejandrina german was ALLOWED to steal from education. how can we expect people to do well if they aren't even given a chance?
writing well comes from reading well. and often. have you seen dominican school books? not one story more than a page long, little comprehension and usually boring - deathly boring. not to mention the schools - both public AND private - who don't have enough books (or private students who don't BUY the books) and resort to having students copy from the board. is that really reading? copying is much different than writing. (it happens even in the expensive bilinguals - i tutor two kids who came to me with their notebooks full of copied stories and when i asked them about the stories they could tell me nothing. but at least they had written it down!)
i think its sad when you drive down the road and see signs - big signs from important companies - with mispellings. and common mispellings. or how when i had business cards printed and there were some mispellings the guy didn't want to fix it - he told me i should deal with it. but more importantly, instead of complaining, what can WE do to help the problem? it's not taking over the schools or starting our own. if you can figure something out to help one person spell one word correctly, or read one little book it's more than complaining about it.
the truth is that the education is poor. balaguer, when he was president, talked about how he wanted an uneducated people. how else would he and his party be able to dominate? and it hasn't gotten much better since him - look at the money allotted to schooling in recent years... and look at how much money alejandrina german was ALLOWED to steal from education. how can we expect people to do well if they aren't even given a chance?
writing well comes from reading well. and often. have you seen dominican school books? not one story more than a page long, little comprehension and usually boring - deathly boring. not to mention the schools - both public AND private - who don't have enough books (or private students who don't BUY the books) and resort to having students copy from the board. is that really reading? copying is much different than writing. (it happens even in the expensive bilinguals - i tutor two kids who came to me with their notebooks full of copied stories and when i asked them about the stories they could tell me nothing. but at least they had written it down!)
i think its sad when you drive down the road and see signs - big signs from important companies - with mispellings. and common mispellings. or how when i had business cards printed and there were some mispellings the guy didn't want to fix it - he told me i should deal with it. but more importantly, instead of complaining, what can WE do to help the problem? it's not taking over the schools or starting our own. if you can figure something out to help one person spell one word correctly, or read one little book it's more than complaining about it.
I've seen this too, everytime i get to go into a Dominican chatroom, it makes me cringe!! It is simply atrocious !! 
these are some words you see there:
" berguensa" instead of " verg?enza"
" avichuela" instead of " habichuela"
" jente" instead of " gente".
You get the "drift" :tired:
Like some people said here, it has more to do with the person. I went to a public school in DR, what makes me spell " decent", by that, I mean at least 98% correct, is that I used to read often, when I was a child.
In Guatemala, I don't know. I guess the public schools there emphasize spelling, or they throw spelling bee competitions often. I don't know, I've never been there, but there's has to be something that they're doing different. I've seen other Central Americans that spell as bad as the average Dominican; and they have atleast a high school diploma.
these are some words you see there:" berguensa" instead of " verg?enza"
" avichuela" instead of " habichuela"
" jente" instead of " gente".
You get the "drift" :tired:
Like some people said here, it has more to do with the person. I went to a public school in DR, what makes me spell " decent", by that, I mean at least 98% correct, is that I used to read often, when I was a child.
In Guatemala, I don't know. I guess the public schools there emphasize spelling, or they throw spelling bee competitions often. I don't know, I've never been there, but there's has to be something that they're doing different. I've seen other Central Americans that spell as bad as the average Dominican; and they have atleast a high school diploma.