Does all this corruption REALLY bother you?

does anyone suffer ? yes because the money could be used on other things like roads and drains

And perhaps some basic education, and maybe a real functioning police force, among other things.

what a shallow, baseless thread you have started. You must not see the poor quality if life here because of govt corruption, You must not have built or bought a house, had a real job here, started a business, breathe the polluted air here, driven on the roads, have kids in school here, been in a hospital, eaten the bacteria laced food?

Did you bribe a government officical to get your motoconcho back after it was impounded, so you like corruption here.

"Me, not in the slightest, why fret, makes where we live were we live, without it we would be elsewhere." hahahahahahhaa

Corruption for some people is just the way of life here. This is standard business practice for many in power. Why do you think the politicians spend millions of pesos in elections just to hold a seat in public office? You think they do this for the salary they receive from the government? Hahahaha.
example: The official who is in charge of building a road (just an example), the project is estimated to be 50 million pesos. He would hand over the contract to a company (preferably to his friend or family member) who, then, would have to write a personal check to the official for 25 million. Yes sir, the government official do ask as much as 50% for their own pocket before handing out the precious contract just to anyone. Now its obvious the money is not enough to complete the project. The work gets started, the contractor stops the project in the middle and walks away with about 10 million in his pocket and whats left, he puts it into the start-up work on the project. The project sits there for a while and then the new government or the same government would jump start the same project again with a new 50 million loan and the game starts all over again. Do any of you know politicians personally before they held important political positions? Just try to visit their homes now (after they have acquired their wealth through political means). Its insane to see how much money they have.
So does that bother me? I would say yes, but I won't lose sleep over it. This is their country and this is the way they do business here.
AZB

A Dominican friend recently told me that, whoever the parties put up as candidates, she always votes for the political party who already holds power.

The reason: If a new party comes in, then nothing will get done because everyone will be concerned about getting rich. But if the same party stays in power, at least something will get done, because some of the people who have already gotten rich might actually use some of the public monies for the projects for which they are intended.

I doubt that is going to be a campaign slogan ("Vote for me; I've already stolen all I need"), but I found it to be an enlightening perspective on the issue of public corruption.

I read a NAL's post from (I reacll) June/July '08 where he said that a '06/'07 USAID study showed corruption in the DR costed about US$177,000,000 per year, about 2.1% of household income. Certainly a tidy sum.

But that's $18 per year per person.

Seems to me the impact of financial corruption is grossly overestimated in it's impact.

Also seems that corruption is more of a concern to foreigners than Dominicans.

really ?.......

jrhartley said:

really ?.......

Click to expand...

As Vacana once commented - if you are involved in the corruption then you have no right to complain.
Seemed a little Draconian to me until I thought about it.

Sure, paying a few hundred pesos to get your Revista without buying the proper equipment, what could be the problem there?
Or paying the AMET dudes 500 pesos cash instead of 1000 pesos for the multa they were going to give you - that cannot hurt surely?

For me these are the wrong questions.

Humans are rational - whether intentionally or subconsciously.
They weigh the pros and cons and act accordingly.
People will only stop this petty corruption once it makes rational sense to do so.
The bigger corruption is viewed as a larger version of the petty stuff.

In my country there is almost no petty corruption. So the larger stuff that surely does happen is qualitatively different. You would not start to bribe the police unless you had a suitcase full of cash.
This means that petty corruption is not available to most people. The thought would literally never cross their mind while for a Dominican it is an everyday occurrence - eg buying your moto back from AMET. Why is that?


If you really want to stop corruption then I believe you start from the bottom up.
If the police will not take a bribe then people will not offer one.
For the police to refuse a bribe it has to make financial sense - it would mean paying the police more but also there must be the threat of losing this half decent income.
For example, a UK police officer on US$50K per year would have to weigh up losing 30 years of income (1.5million bucks) against a few dollars. The decision makes itself.

How do we get there from here?
Don't know.

Is it the people involved who are to blame?
No it is the situation they find themselves in.

I think you have to stop looking at this whole business as a cultural, moral, ethical issue and look at it as an rational economic issue.

In order for corruption to stop it has be akin to what pedro said, the penalties for getting caught have to exceed drastically the gain from the commission.

no offence but only a moron wouldnt be bothered by it

jrhartley said:

no offence but only a moron wouldnt be bothered by it

Click to expand...

I'm not bothered by it, actually I find it quite challenging, for example, when a cop approaches you, there's this creative moment when you have to decide if the cop will arrest you, or hold you up. Anyway, it doesn't matter, since, either way, you can pay yourself out of the situation. ; )

jrhartley said:

no offence but only a moron wouldnt be bothered by it

Click to expand...

Or a simpleton...:cheeky:

I don't like or advocate it, I wish it were otherwise, but it doesn't really "bother" me. It come with the package of pros and cons when choosing to live in the DR. If it's that bothersome, then move elsewhere. It's like another CLDR*.

It doesn't seem to bother most Dominicans, either.

But this is another topic, along with racism, putas, "alternate sexual lifestyles", etc., that has been beaten to death on this forum.










*Cost of Living in the DR

it depends what you mean by bother- i would say if you dont like something , it bothers you

jrhartley said:

it depends what you mean by bother- i would say if you dont like something , it bothers you

Click to expand...

"Bother you" implies an act directly and personally affects your thoughts, life and behavior, something you spend mental energy dealing with.

"Not like" is just an opinion.

So I don't "like" the layers of Corruption, but they don't "bother" me. When I come across it-in rare instances, like getting stopped by militar or NP for $$$ or food*-I deal with it and move on. I sure can't change it.

It's a personal choice.




















*Another situation when being a simpleton helps :cheeky:

cobraboy said:

Also seems that corruption is more of a concern to foreigners than Dominicans.

Click to expand...

If one has never tasted steak and lobster, they'll be happy with fried rat as their source of dietary protein.