Reflexive verbs

I'm not a Spanish expert, but I always thought of these similar to "on vend" in French, ie "one is selling".

True that it is a looot more in Spanish then French. But my understanding is that in Spanish is used as an indefinite pronoun, just like when we use "on" in French.
Se vende is not a true reflexive in that sense, just means alguien vende.

Hope it makes sense.

Just thought about other cases where se with a verb is not really used as a reflexive...
With the verb perder for example. You can say perd? algo (I lost something) or se me lo perdi? (it got lost). In that case, se is used to give a more passive tone to perder (not necessarily my fault).

Voila !

Se me perdi? algo would be it got lost (it lost itself almost ) where as yo perd? algo is I lost it

se can also be used as a reflexive such as French , for example: to bathe: me ba?e or me ech? agua

So it is not necessarily used as a reflexive, it depends on the context.

That's my understanding of it. Hope it makes sense and I didn't confuse u any further.

May be a M. Or X.O could clarify ?

Se vende is what is called the reflexive substitute for the passive voice.

It means "for sale". If there is an object, then the translation can different. Se venden cachorros. Puppies sold here, or Puppies for sale.

Se habla espa?ol. ~ Spanish spoken. English usually adds the adverb "here" Spanish does not.

Me ba?? is a true reflexive. I nbathed myself. But usually we say I took a bath.

Me cepill? los dientes. I brushed my teeth. Literally, I brushed myself the teeth.

Se me cayeron los lentes means that I accidentally dropped my glasses.
If you did it on purpose, you would not use the reflexive. Dej? caer los lentes.

Se me perdieron los dientes. I lost my teeth. (but I did not mean to).

Then there are the more complicated uses.

Se me hace que se est?n haciendo no m?s. ~ I think they are just pretending (to do something they want you to believe they are doing in earnest).

Much clearer from el profesor

Gracias, 'chas gracias. Gracias por la flor ma?ana vengo por la maceta, pues.


If you listen to Cantinflas in those old films, he has a lot of fun with a sort of cantinflesco double talk that defies translation, and uses reflexives a lot. Cantinflas defies translation into English, just like Robin Williams defies translation into Spanish.

Africaida,


Xavier gave a great response as usual so I am not going to elaborate further. However, I think the key aspect here to understand is that the usage of SE in Spanish is not only reflexive. This pronoun has so many grammatical functions that are non reflexive that one really has to understand what usage the pronoun has in a particular phrase.

If you look in the dictionary sometimes you will see a verb for. e.g. caer and then beside it will say pron. caerse. That means the verb has a pronominal form which means it takes the pronoun SE and thus changes the meaning from the non-pronominal form.

Lavar vs lavarse- lavarse in this case with the pronoun would be an example of reflexive usage- Me lavo.

However, the usage of se in a phrase like this for e.g. se lo di has no reflexive usage at all. This actually is a required grammatical construction because you can’t say le lo di- it becomes se lo di.

The OP’s original question Se vende, se busca, se alquila- those are all equivalents of the passive voice to express those ‘want’ ads. se vende.... house for sale, se busca …. wanted, se alquila…. For rent …. Se habla espa?ol.... Spanish spoken here.

If you study Spanish beyond the intermediate level many grammar books refer to verbs with SE as pronominal verbs because not all verbs that have SE are reflexive.

I loved your comparison to French though. Good for you! Try explaining reflexive and pronominal verbs in French to someone. It’s the same dynamic. I have had people ask me what’s the difference between aller and s’en aller. I love to look at their reaction.


-MP.

Marianopolita said:

Africaida,



I loved your comparison to French though. Good for you! Try explaining reflexive and pronominal verbs in French to someone. It’s the same dynamic. I have had people ask me what’s the difference between aller and s’en aller. I love to look at their reaction.


-MP.

Click to expand...

You all got me lost on the spanishse.
As for aller, it would mean to go wheras s'en aller implies the fact ure are leaving.
Nous allons ? la piscine. We are going to the pool.
Nous nous en allons de la piscine. We are leaving the pool.

In Old Spanish (aroiund the time of El Cid, c. 1090 or so) the usage was ge lo di, for I gave it to him. Over the years, ge (pronounced as an Argentine would pronounce lle, "jay" in English, became se (pronounced almost like "shay": the Spanish aspirate their esses strongly).

The rule is no pronouns beginning with l can be used together, and the reason goes back to Vulgar Latin, where it was confusing.

malko said:

You all got me lost on the spanishse.
As for aller, it would mean to go wheras s'en aller implies the fact ure are leaving.
Nous allons ? la piscine. We are going to the pool.
Nous nous en allons de la piscine. We are leaving the pool.

Click to expand...

Why ?

I am not very good at explaining, but I think it makes sense. Depending on the context se takes different meanings/function just like French i.e. s'en aller et se laver (one is reflexive, the other is not).

Xavier and Mariano are right.

The construction in "se vende" is what we call "pasiva refleja"

Spanish is unlike English, which makes it confusing for Angloparlantes. On the other hand, English is VERY difficult sometimes.

Take the sentence "I hit him in the nose yesterday", asnd insert the word only in every position. It changes the meaning every time you move it.

Or this one: "He called the Ranch Focus because because it was where the Sun's rays meet/ the sons raise meat."
Now there is a hard one to translate.

don't even start on the 'ough's'

trough , through and rough.....explain that to somebody

there are too many of them....

I try to learn it like se dice (it is being said, people say), se vende (it is being sold, they sell, for sale).