Sea Snakes (Eels) Oh My! Leaving Sunday-Punta Cana here we come-any last minute advic

I suggest...

You catch a few and bring them to the kitchen at your hotel. Ask the chef to prepare them "breaded and fried" (empanizado). They're delicious that way!

The sea snakes are the one to watch out for but you have to be in southeast Asia in the Pacific or Indian Ocean.
these sea (snake eels) are usually harmless with exception of the moray. But just being on the beach and in the shallows you are not likely to encouter any, but if you do get them cooked as McInbrass suggests.<Img src="http://www.coralreefnetwork.com/stender/fishes/eels/magnif.jpg">

Although it is generally thought that air-breathing sea snakes (as opposed to regular water-breathing ells) are only confined to the SE Asian part of the Pacific Ocean, I have seen them both in the Bahamas and the Dominican Republic. I too had thought they were only supposed to be elsewhere (half a world away in the Pacific), but there they were, sticking out of the holes in the sand. And after close observation, I saw them swim up to the surface and get a breath of air. I got away from the area quickly as although they are very passive, they are also the most deadly snakes in the world, far more venomous than land snakes. I should also note that I've been a diver for more than 50 years and have only seen them 3 times, twice in the Bahamas and once here. The odds of you encountering one are somewhere between remote and none.

Also, I would suggest that if you see any moray eels (green with a mottled pattern), you also give them a wide berth as they are prone to a nasty disposition and have a bad bite that will give you a serious infection. You can swim near them and observe them, but don't poke or prod them, they'll bite the hell out of you. I've had them come right up a spear after me and the same in a boat,...slithering around on deck snapping at everything, my feet included.

Contrary to what Mcinbrass says, leave them to the fishermen to take to the hotel cook.

Are you trying to scare tourists away?

Shame on you!

Everyone note that it was Andy the Original, not I, who posted that.

If you really think that you saw sea snakes, post it at
http://forum.kingsnake.com/venom/. You WILL be heard.

It is somewhat surprising that sea snakes haven't (confirmed at least) yet made it through the Pananma Canal.

By the way, they're NOT more deadly than all land snakes.

The other tubular citizens on the reef are gill bearing fish, but the sea snake is a true air breathing reptile. The sea snake can hold his breath for long periods while hunting and even sleeping on the reef, but must eventually come to the surface for a quick breath of air. This behavior can scare the devil out of curious divers as the snake will often swim directly at a hovering diver on the way to the surface. They mate and birth their young on the shore, but spend the rest of their lives hunting fish, crustaceans and eels amongst the nooks and crannies of the reef. I have often followed snakes as they made their rounds along a reef and their persistence (not to mention breath holding ability) is truly amazing.

Sea snakes are one of the most poisonous creatures on the reef with a venom similar to that of the cobra. Fortunately, these fellows are not at all aggressive and I have never heard of a fatal encounter with a diver. In addition to their mellow nature, they have short fangs unlikely to penetrate even a tropical wet suit and seldom envenomate even with biting. There have been deaths reported, but these were usually fishermen encountering the snakes in their nets. They have poor eyesight, but excellent chemical sensation and have the same forked tongue as their land based cousins for sensing vibration. http://www.cybereef.com/longfellows/pages/seasnake_image.htm

A sea snake's venom is two to ten times as toxic as a cobra's, less of it is transferred to the victim and only one-fourth of those bitten show signs of poisoning. The venom is a paralyzing agent to the nervous system and the victim becomes unable to breath, thus suffocating to death. They may have small mouths, but sea snakes can bite people. The best way to escape being bitten is to avoid provoking the snake. http://scuba.about.com/library/weekly/aa121500.htm

The best description

Here is the best description I have found in an extensive search
http://aqwa.com.au/seasnakes.html
Please also note that most sites indicate that sea snakes are not found in the Atlantic or Mediterranean.http://jrscience.wcp.muohio.edu/Fie...cologyArticles/ShouldWeBeWorriedAboutSea.html

Hlywud,

Are you saying that you have swum with sea snakes in the Atlantic?

Again, if so, post it at http://forum.kingsnake.com/venom/.

Brian Greg Fry, Wolfgang, and the gang will be most interested. Fry maintains a venom database comparing the toxicity of various snakes. He also assists tv herpetologists such as Steve Irwin on their expeditions.

Andy a,
In all my years of diving, I've never seen a gill-bearing eel swim to the surface and take a breath and return to the bottom with a train of bubbles following him. I too was under the impression that sea snakes were only found in the south Pacific but I know what I saw with my own eyes. I guess they made it through the canal after all.

The snakes I saw were similar in coloration to the pictures I've seen of their Pacific cousins. In the Bahamas, I saw them at Great Guana Cay in the Abacos several times. I was within spitting distance of the Guana Cay Club. Here in the DR, I saw one right around the corner from me in Las Galeras at Playita beach. In the three instances that I saw them, they were in about 2 feet of water on a white sandy bottom so viewing conditions were ideal.

And as 'wud ponted out, your dead wrong about the extreme level of toxcity these little snakes have. The only snake on land that compares in toxicity is a Coral snake, who's venom also attacks the nervous system and you suffocate.

And for our tourist friends, I've only seen these snakes 3 times in over 50 years of diving so the chance that a tourist would see one is pretty rare.

And make no mistake about it, this post is made by Andy B, the original. Original what I don't know, but the original none the less.

Maybe the tourists should go to San Jose, Andy B

Where they only have fer-de-lances, bushmasters, cascavels, coral snakes, etc.

In fact, since I enjoy the countryside, a big attraction of the DR for me is the fact that I don't have to worry about poisonous snakes, especially at night when the fun begins.

I'm well aware of how toxic, at least drop for drop, that sea snakes are. But as Steve Irwin tells us, the fierce snake (actually, inland taipan) is the world's most toxic, either drop for drop or in total lethal dose. Bryan Greg Fry, also an Aussie, maintains a database of relative snake venom toxicities.

Instead of San Jose why not go to Florida or any of the other southern US states that border the Gulf of Mexico? There you can find at least 3 species of rattlesnakes, copperheads, mocassins and coral snakes plus, alligators, salt water crocodiles (in southern Florida- Dade and Monroe counties) and scorpions.

Yet despite all these critters, Florida remains a popular tourist destination. Wonder why?

I'm amazed at the apparent lack of interest in this potentially blockbuster thread.

If sea snakes exist in the area, it potentially affects everyone who goes into the water. One doesn't have to be paranoid to be cognizant of the hazard. Although several of the species are docile, some aren't.

The Panama canal doesn't seem to be a strong enough barrier to keep them out - but perhaps Atlantic predators are. Never mind that the predators themselves may die later from getting bitten while eating their meal - those predators would not yet have had time to learn to leave the sea snakes alone. It's just a speculation on my part.

Hlywud, since you have not answered whether you have seen them HERE, I have re-read your posts and decided that you did NOT say that you have.

Of course, for anyone still reading, maybe ignorance is bliss. In Saudi Arabia, Persian Gulf side, several Americans were going water skiing when a large sea snake actually got wrapped around the skier. None of them knew that sea snakes are venomous, much less extremely so, but the skier was terrified just from having ANY snake wrapped around him. The other guys, all in the boat, were almost amused and did nothing to help him - probably the best thing they could have done. Beating at the snake with an oar might have provoked a bite. I was not with them but when they told me and I told them about sea snakes they were all very shaken.

Later, at the same beach, one of the same guys, not knowing that a dead snake can still bite, picked one up that had washed onto the beach. He then wrapped it around his head and started walking up to others to scare them. Naturally, he was the in-country manager for his corporation.

Andy.

After reading your comments about Sea Snakes in the Caribbean I called up a friend at the Rosenthiel institute and asked him about the posibilities of the Sea Snakes crossing over through the Panama Canal. It is not possible. Once going througjh the Locks the Canal is Fresh water. A Sea snake could not survive the crossing. The only fish that have crossed from one side to the other are species that can survive in Fresh as well as salt water. Tarpon and Snook are just a few that have traveled from the Caribbean/Atlantic to the pacific sides. There have been no verifiable stings of Sea Snakes in the Caribbean.
He told me what you probobly saw were a species of sand eel feeding on surface crustaceans. I have seen this many times myself in the Florida Keys.

Tony C.

Not in the Atlantic

andy a said:

Hlywud,

Are you saying that you have swum with sea snakes in the Atlantic?

Again, if so, post it at http://forum.kingsnake.com/venom/.

Brian Greg Fry, Wolfgang, and the gang will be most interested. Fry maintains a venom database comparing the toxicity of various snakes. He also assists tv herpetologists such as Steve Irwin on their expeditions.

Click to expand...

Not in the Atlantic or the Mediterranean, I beleive my point was just that, they are found most in the South Pacific of South East Asia, Australia or in the Indian Ocean.
Tony C is correct no verifiable sea snake bites and those who thought they saw them saw eels and were mistaken.
But I am not one to call Andy B. wrong he is an avid diver and knows what he saw, so perhaps some of those herpetologist better start checking out the Caribbean.

I fully agree that it is highly unlikely that any salt-water, gill-breathing fish could make it through the Panama Canal due to its fresh-water makeup. However, there are a number of species of salt water critters who have made the journey from Pacific to Atlantic via the ballast tanks in large ships. Ever hear of the Zebra muscle that has become a real problem in the US and Canada? Anyway, sea snakes are NOT salt-water breathing, but AIR breathing so the salinity of the water would have nothing to do with that.

Also, I did not suggest that sea snakes could have come through the canal. The other Andy did.

What I saw certainly looked like a sea snake but I also agree that it could have been a sand eel or anything else that you'd like to call it. But it sure LOOKED like a sea snake and NOT a species of eel as it did not have the fins that eels have and it had a different head. Also, the oceans (and even the shallows) are still providing us with undiscovered species of marine life. Some of the reefs I've dove in the Bahamas had not seen the shadow of a human being pass over them for several hundred years. With over 750 cays, there's still plenty of places that have not been covered by divers.

There are many Aquatic Mammals and reptiles that cannot survive in water that is not their Natural habitat. A american Alligator can only tolerate Saltwater foe only a few minutes. A sea snake would quickly wither if it found itself in fresh water for more than an few hours.
Zebra mussles are water breathing animals which where brought over while still in their larval stage. A sea snake could not survive emmeresd in a ballast tank of a ship. It would literally be torn to shreads by the bilge. And if it did manage to survive the pump it would quickly drown!
BTW Sea snakes do not burrow holes in the sand like the creatures Andy B observed. But Sand eels do!

Tony

As a native Floridian I have seen plenty of alligators that LIVE in saltwater. They can tolerate salt, brackish and fresh water for great lengths of time. The same for the crocodile that is found in southern Dade county. They live in the salt water cooling canals and the small salt water and brackish lakes between the Turkey Point nuclear power plant and the northern keys. In fact there is a sign posted on US1 near Lake Suprise that warns of a crocodile crossing between the lake and Florida Bay on the other side of the highway.

Ballast tanks in large ships contain both fresh and saltwater depending on where they filled the tanks. Also, in many cases the tanks are not completely filled so there is air in the tank and air breahing organisms can survive.

There are several different kinds of utility pumps used in big ships. And the pump's pumping chambers are usually so large that live fish (and small snakes) can easily pass through them. And bear in mind that many ships have intake guards so large that only small logs will not pass through them.

I am borned and raised in South Dade! I am quite familiar with Saltwater Crocs and Alligators. I can show you active Croc Nests anytime you like. In fact I saw some this morning as I was fishing. Alligtors have been known to travel short distances through Saltwater but they cannot tolerate it for any lenght of time. Crocs vice versa.
For a Sea snake to traverse the Panama Canal it would have to spend weeks in fresh water. That is not going to happen!
Name me one Pacific ocean fish or reptile that has been transplanted and established in the Atlantic/Caribbean by being carried by ship! Zebra Muscles were tranported as larval fry.
Head down to the "Old" Rickenbaker Causeway during an outgoing Tide on a full moon. You will see Many Types of sand eels comming up to the surface to feed!

Tony

maybe far fetched

the suez is a salt water canal with no locks. it is not a hard press for the snaes to work slowly across the med and down. I have seen sea snake in deep open ocean in the pacific and the IO so not impossable.
Just a thought. Nothing more
JOhn

Interesting debate

But you can wager your life savings you will not run into a venomous sea snake in DR waters or a venomous snake on land for that matter.

As far as Moray eels, If you are fortunate to see them snorkeling, enjoy it. They will not bother you as long as you don't bother them.

Bottom line is enjoy your stay and don't worry just enjoy!