Removing from Condo Rules References to Some Units Having More Value Than Others

Ken

Platinum
Jan 1, 2002
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Our condo association representing 18 apartments is revising the rules. Among the things we are looking at is language that seems to suggest some apartments have more value than others and therefore should pay more in maintenance fees and have their votes count for more. All the apartments are essentially the same, all have 2 bedrooms and 2 baths. There are some small differences in floor plan and some are slightly larger than the other, but the owners think of all the apartments as equal. Too our knowledge, all have always paid the same maintenance fees and all owners have had an equal vote. And it is our desire to continue to operate in this way. Is there any reason why the, to us, meaningless language cannot be removed from the rules?
 
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Eddy

Silver
Jan 1, 2002
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If the owners all agree on something I fail to see the problem. Call me or stop by the condos.
 

PJT

Silver
Jan 8, 2002
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I don't really see your concern about condo size, if some are "slightly larger" your maintenance fees should not vary that much. I believe it is fare to assess fees based on size

I live in a residencial and the maintenance fee is the result of a formula based upon the lot size and and the amount of land the house construction displaces and the owners have no dispute over that.

However, in your situation I feel you have more of an issue with the votes. Your assoc. having the votes for larger apartments that have more value would create chaos. Would create voting blocks that would favor the floor space barons. Like the UN, I suggest one nation, one vote. Think about it, if UN votes were based on size we would all be eating rice with chopsticks.

Regards, PJT
 
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Ken

Platinum
Jan 1, 2002
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Eddy said:
If the owners all agree on something I fail to see the problem.

That is what we are hoping, Eddy. But we know that much of what is in condo rules is based on the condo law, so aren't sure if we are free to remove this even though the change we want to make in the rules actually reflects what has long been the practice.

In our case, half the apartments have one floor plan, the other half another. But all are essentially the same, including 2 bedrooms and 2 full baths. But because of the plan difference, half the apartments are 10 sq mts larger than the other half.

Maybe at the beginning, when the apartments first went on the market, the two groups were priced differently. But we are now long past that and the apartaments are sold for whatever the seller can get. Differences in sale price are based on furnishings, decoration, etc., of the individual apartments, in other words on money spent by the owners, not on any difference in floor plan.
 

KenoshaChris

New member
Jan 4, 2002
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You should be able to do so without violating any condominium statutes. Knowing where you live Ken, perhaps an ocean view from the higher units was contemplated in setting the assessments. See you tomorrow.
 

Golo100

Bronze
Jan 5, 2002
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There are some exceptions

Many new towers are now being built with size differences that range as much as 300 or more meters between apartments, including buildings with 1 br. apartments in the same place with others with four and more bedrooms and huge penthouses.

The smaller apartments are usually in the first floor, therefore having no need to use the elevators.

It would be unfair for a single guy or young couple to pay the same maintenance fee as a family of six or more using every facility in the building to its capacity, including the power generator, water supply and others.

The voting however must be maintained equal. Size cannot determine voting.

TW
 

Golo100

Bronze
Jan 5, 2002
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Something else

Regarding another issue, somewhat related, condo owners should know that almost all developers/engineers make behind- the-scene and behind- the- back deals with buyers of first floor and top floor apartments which are never known by prospective buyers of other apartments until it is too late.

For instance, many first floor buyers are given the option to acquire parts of the green areas with the excuse that the first floor has no balcony, therefore adding green areas to build a patio would be a compensation. However this not shown or advised in the brochures and offerings.

Top floor apartments are given unusual access to the roof and in some situations are given the right to build or take possession of the roof as part of their apartments. Some like a man I know, made a deal with the engineer after he bought a 4th. floor apartment with 130 sq. mtrs. and the engineer offered to open up to the (fifth level) roof to convert his apartment into a penthouse for an extra million and expand it to over 350 sq. mtrs. The rest of the owners did not know and now they don't even have a place to hang dry their clothes, place A/C units or water tanks.

In one apartment in Ensanche Paraiso the entire green area in the back of the building was sold to the first floor owner. Instances have been known where the guest parking spaces have been sold too.

And just yesterday in the news there was a report on how many defaults are taking place because engineers use money from loans and initial payments to start other projects and for personal use and default on their bank payments. Then the bank takes over the project, but since no titles have been issued to the buyers, all the initial fees given to the engineer are not recognized by the bank and the buyers have to renegotiate the whole thing with the bank again. These are mostly projects sold in the blueprint phase, where much lower prices can be obtained, but with the high risk of losing your whole investment. In the meantime you see engineers driving a late model Jaguar bought with your down payment.

TW
 

Fabio J. Guzman

DR1 Expert
Jan 1, 2002
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www.drlawyer.com
To change the votes given to each condo owner in the condo regulations you need to have the unanimous agreement of all condo owners (Art. 4 and Art. 12 of Condo Law #5038 of 1958). The rationale for this provision is to protect the individual owner from the possible abuse of his rights by the majority. Imagine an owner who is constant pain to the other owners, wouldn't they be tempted, if allowed, to lower his voting rights to next to nothing?

Golo, common areas cannot be sold just like that or be subject to particular deals between the developer and a particular owner. Again, to legally change a common area to a private area you need the unanimous consent of all the owners (Art. 8 of Condo Law #5038 of 1958). What I have seen happen is that the developer tells a prospective buyer that a particular area is a common area, however, the condo declaration says something different. That's why you should never buy a condo without:

1) reading the condo regulations and making sure that they have been recorded, or what amounts to the same thing, that the condo you are buying exists as a legal entity.

2) making sure that upon paying your money you get your rights recorded.

Of course, when you ask for 1) and 2) above from your standard Santo Domingo developer, he will look at you as if you came from Mars. Most condo towers, even in the ritziest section of town, presell most times even without an existent title to the condo. This is "NORMAL" practice in Santo Domingo. The buyer is totally unprotected if the developer goes bankrupt or just plain walks away from the project. When he tries to record his "promesa" at the Registry he will find a bank with a zillion peso or dollar mortgage ahead of him and he will have no recourse but to buy from the bank again, that is, paying twice for the condo.

Last year I represented a client buying a $1.3 million US penthouse in a condo tower in Santo Domingo. When I asked for the required documents (construction license, title to the property, survey, condo declaration, etc.) before allowing my client to disburse any funds, the reaction one of my associates received from the developer was: "your firm obviously does not deal with real estate" (!)
 

Eddy

Silver
Jan 1, 2002
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I would go with Fabio's recommendations on all these matters. He has been taking care of our Condos since day 1. (In your case, it appears that there is a conflict of interest). I can't be of much help either. We have a "super" group of owners and usually work things out to everyone's satisfaction. Good luck at your next meeting and I hope you will be able to reason with everyone and that things will work out.
 

Ken

Platinum
Jan 1, 2002
13,884
495
83
Thanks, Eddy. I always go with Fabio's recommendations. He has been my friend and personal attorney for more than 15 years.

We don't have a problem. We are doing the first major revision of the rules of our condo association, the first since the rules were first drafted in 1986, and we are looking at various sections that seem to us to no longer have meaning so that they can be removed via the rules amendment process.