The Phantoms unmasked....

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Rapadou

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after a two day break from Planet DR1.........Thanks for holding serve, Quisqueya! lesssons well taught on your side, though things got out of hand in the end there......

I ve come to realize that in one little thread about a people without a land, I was able to unmasked the phantoms. Whether, people talking about Ghosts of History/past. Or others intentionally avoiding the issue at hand.

Part of the great success of the DR has always been from the get go, its ability to basically lay low and deliver a fair share of its market to foreign investors. As is in the case of other caribbean nations that are seen as successful nation, take the Bahamas for example. A country sold to the highest foreign bidders. What will happen if ever these foreign investors decide to leave and take with them their assets.

One poster wrote that in 1821 the DR had declared itself independent, independent of what I asked. An illusionist might add, that from day one the DR has always been a country begging for Europeans (France, Spain 'secondary') and let me not mention Uncle Sam to actually legally adopt them. Before Duarte, and again after Trujillo these same outcries became evident. The DR begging for Uncle Sam to basically take over the whole island. Some might say it's a sign of a people with some insecurities but I beg to differ.

I believe it's what I would coin as Grandeurism, moreso trying to associate oneself with the current superpower, taking shelter under the shelves of the big man on campus to appear to be bigger than one actually is. When one seats here and read these very many post of how much better the DR side of the Island is than that of which the Haitians resides. If one didn't live in this world, one might come to the conclusion that someway somehow the DR was on a different economic scale, or a 1st world country if I may.

When in actuality both countries couldn't be any more similar, specially when it comes to economic woes. Both suffer from a great majority of their people living below poverty line, both suffer from productivity, both suffer from inner conflicts impairing the advancements of their country respectively.

The Only difference, the one thing that has allowed the DR side of the island to somehow camouflage its inner ills are its linkage to FOREIGN INVESTORS!!!! PUnta Cana for example, all these great resorts in the DR, making close to more half if probably not more of the economic revenues that country actually enjoys. If not for the Foreign investors, which the country has always relied on, or has always tried to shoulder on throughout its history. If not for that, would they really be much difference between the two countries, would they?

Many on denial will actually shoot down my opinion, but I know better heck they know better too. If not for the foreign investors in the DR, Bahamas in the other so called more prosperous third world countries of the Caribbean, where would these countries be I ask you. Haiti in a way has suffered for its reluctance to open its shores/markets to FOREIGN INVESTORS, I might add at will.
 

Robert

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Please be clear what your debate is about, this is after all the debates forum.

Is about what would happen if foreign investors left the country?

Or...

Is it about trying to put down the DR in comparison to it's third world neighbor?

Actually your agenda is perfectly clear...
 

Narcosis

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The Dominican tourist industry is realtively new less than 30 years FYI. The DR prior to early 80's did not have more than a handful of hotels. Thanks to the insight of several DOMINICANS such as Frank Rainieri and his family as well as a few others the industry took off. Of course there has been foreign investment and we encourage more why not? Almost every developed nation on earth does.

It seems you have been "reading" into one too many Bob Marley songs.

The "African Homeland" you dream of is not the Dominican Republic and not even Haiti for that matter. It only exisits in your dreams.

Be Proud of whomever you are Haitian, Dominican or both and get your mind into the present. Haiti needs you, not your fantasy.
 

Rapadou

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Robert said:
Please be clear what your debate is about, this is after all the debates forum.

Is about what would happen if foreign investors left the country?

Or...

Is it about trying to put down the DR in comparison to it's third world neighbor?

Actually your agenda is perfectly clear...


My agenda is perfectly clear, and what agenda is that if I may ask you?

Quite on the contrary I have no particular agenda, besides standing up for the voiceless, a worthy fight in my opinion. I have no particular agenda against the DR as you're trying to imply. I hold allegiance to both countries, unlike some I will not deny my ancestry, Afro/Haitiano/DOminicano, Euro if I might add.

My fight is not with the people of the DR nor Haiti per se, in actually I believe it's time that both the Haitian and Dominican government starts working on a solution to better the situation of the sugarcane workers. Not that this problem is the main problem of both nations, but it is the one I ve chosen to criticize thus far, not that I don't have any others fight in me.

Proud of my Afro/Haitiano/Dominicano/Euro Heritage, it still doesn't keep me from standing against what's wrong and inhumane.................................
 

Rapadou

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Narcosis said:
The Dominican tourist industry is realtively new less than 30 years FYI. The DR prior to early 80's did not have more than a handful of hotels. Thanks to the insight of several DOMINICANS such as Frank Rainieri and his family as well as a few others the industry took off. Of course there has been foreign investment and we encourage more why not? Almost every developed nation on earth does.

It seems you have been "reading" into one too many Bob Marley songs.

The "African Homeland" you dream of is not the Dominican Republic and not even Haiti for that matter. It only exisits in your dreams.

Be Proud of whomever you are Haitian, Dominican or both and get your mind into the present. Haiti needs you, not your fantasy.

I am what I am and I had no choice regarding such fate. Unlike others I ve chosen not to be selective when it comes to the make-up of my background (Afro/Haitiano/Dominicano/Euro/Indio). I cannot be selective about such matters, it was not to my choosing. I am what I am and what I am is What I am.

If others have chosen to be selective that is their perogative, selective insomnia is not my cup of tea...........

The presence of the tourist industry fairly young indeed.........but the presence of foreign investors!!!!!!! not fairly young, I only used the tourism industry as a recent example but not the norm/usual.

Do you deny the notion that the DR has always been a country of trying to shop itself around to superpowers. Before the Haitian takeover, before Boyer took over the DR, how unsucessful was the DR in shopping itself around to the governments of France and the US all to avoid being under spanish, JUST HOW MANY TIMES!!!

and for Uncle Sam's concern, the DR is the 51st state dreaming moreso than PR would even think of being one. Nothing wrong with that but hey hey hey you know I am right, no pun intended............

that blind man was indeed being coached and loved his way to the Foreign Investors bank!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Narcosis

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Not sure if the subject is Tourism good or bad?

But anyway. It is hard to imagine an investor trying to up and take his assets and leave the country. Love to see someone ship a hotel out? or maybe ship some beaches to Europe or Canada.

The nice thing about tourism is it can actually help maintain peace in the country especially when one is involved in it. I think we are very lucky to be able to engage in the "hospitality" industry.

An industry that encourages people to be happy, friendly, to respect nature and natural resources and feel good about it. Is this so bad?

Thank God Dominicans are a Very happy people and don't have a complex that they are begging to anyone as you want to impose on to people.

Welcome everyone..Come to the Dominican Republic!
 

Robert

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Rapadou said:
I am what I am and I had no choice regarding such fate. Unlike others I ve chosen not to be selective when it comes to the make-up of my background (Afro/Haitiano/Dominicano/Euro/Indio). I cannot be selective about such matters, it was not to my choosing. I am what I am and what I am is What I am.

If others have chosen to be selective that is their perogative, selective insomnia is not my cup of tea...........

The presence of the tourist industry fairly young indeed.........but the presence of foreign investors!!!!!!! not fairly young, I only used the tourism industry as a recent example but not the norm/usual.

Do you deny the notion that the DR has always been a country of trying to shop itself around to superpowers. Before the Haitian takeover, before Boyer took over the DR, how unsucessful was the DR in shopping itself around to the governments of France and the US all to avoid being under spanish, JUST HOW MANY TIMES!!!

and for Uncle Sam's concern, the DR is the 51st state dreaming moreso than PR would even think of being one. Nothing wrong with that but hey hey hey you know I am right, no pun intended............

that blind man was indeed being coached and loved his way to the Foreign Investors bank!!!!!!!!!!!!

And what's your point?

We are all very aware that the DR has a lot of heavy foreign investment and this creates jobs, lifestyles, support infrastructure etc etc. This is true of many countries around the world.
The DR is fast becoming a "service industry" due to it's location, skill base etc.

Is this a bad thing? Of course not!

The DR is still and will always be a much more attractive investment opportunity compared to the VERY different country on the other side of the Island.

Once again, what is this debate about?
 

Rapadou

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Narcosis said:
Not sure if the subject is Tourism good or bad?

But anyway. It is hard to imagine an investor trying to up and take his assets and leave the country. Love to see someone ship a hotel out? or maybe ship some beaches to Europe or Canada.

The nice thing about tourism is it can actually help maintain peace in the country especially when one is involved in it. I think we are very lucky to be able to engage in the "hospitality" industry.

An industry that encourages people to be happy, friendly, to respect nature and natural resources and feel good about it. Is this so bad?

Thank God Dominicans are a Very happy people and don't have a complex that they are begging to anyone as you want to impose on to people.

Welcome everyone..Come to the Dominican Republic!

HAHAHAHAHA!! you just don't get it do you. It's not about the foreign investors taking the beaches back to canada or the hotels to wherever. But the reality is, just as these beaches and hotels are booked to fullest, given one's fate they can be as empty as can be in only a matter of time, nothing's guaranteed in life. Hey, Haiti is one example. Once the magnet for tourism in the caribbean, now practically with no presence of tourists except for what is called the local tourist (haitians from the diaspora). Heck, even here in the United States certain spots were the hot spots back in the days and as we speak have fallen and become victims of their own successes. Once the banks, investors left so did the revenues.

Take the ROckaways in New YOrk for example, at the rate such place was going in the 60's the Las Vegas and Hollywood of its time, now to have fallen almost to third world status inside a 1st world country. Next time you're in New York if ever, I suggest you visit such side of town.

Remember what goes up must come down, as history as taught us it's about natural selection. THE world has gone from the great Romans, France, Germany, England, Spain, Portugal, Russia and now the US as superpowers. Don't you think in the next 50 years to come the world might see a new superpower emerge. China for example with its population if it chooses to abandoned its communist ways, may be the next world superpower. I guess only time will tell indeed.....................the rest is history.
 

Narcosis

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Remeber back to the 70's when General Bob Marley helped support a socialist movement in Jamaica which hade similiar undertones as you tout today in 2004.

Rebels shooting tourists. Because of the great EVIL tourism represented? I don't recall it doing much good for Jamaica which is still trying to recover from a tough lesson learned.

As soon as we get rid of the current PRD goverment in a peaceful DEMOCRATIC fashion. We will go back to have 8% anual growth and yes lots off-shore investment!
 

Rapadou

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Robert said:
And what's your point?

We are all very aware that the DR has a lot of heavy foreign investment and this creates jobs, lifestyles, support infrastructure etc etc. This is true of many countries around the world.
The DR is fast becoming a "service industry" due to it's location, skill base etc.

Is this a bad thing? Of course not!
no it's not a bad thing, I never said it was.

The DR is still and will always be a much more attractive investment opportunity compared to the VERY different country on the other side of the Island.

Naivete in this case is definitely not a virtue, not even the US can boast such claims, not even the almighty US can boast such claims and declare itself as something eternal. Hope you never retreat from such Ghostly statements. Pray that fate never make you eat your words


Once again, what is this debate about?

and yet you continue your quest.
 

Robert

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Rapadou said:
and yet you continue your quest.

My quest is trying to understand your point and the reason you posted in the debates forum.

Obviously I'm wasting my time...
 

Rapadou

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Narcosis said:
Remeber back to the 70's when General Bob Marley helped support a socialist movement in Jamaica which hade similiar undertones as you tout today in 2004.

General who? Where do you get your facts from?

Rebels shooting tourists. Because of the great EVIL tourism represented? I don't recall it doing much good for Jamaica which is still trying to recover from a tough lesson learned.

If hasn't done much bad either because Jamaice enjoys the same tourism revenues that the DR does?

As soon as we get rid of the current PRD goverment in a peaceful DEMOCRATIC fashion. We will go back to have 8% anual growth and yes lots off-shore investment!

HAHAHAHA. I must agree with you on that one El Presidente hasn't done much to help his image.
 

Pib

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Pls. tell us exactly what the point(s) to debate is(are).

I don't see it either. There's no point in replying if I don't even know what you are on about.

And remember this is the D.R. forum. Haiti is next door, debates about Haiti are VERY MUCH welcome insofar as the debates actually pertains to the D.R.

If you are just sharing your insight with us (always a good thing) then I'll have to move the thread to a more appropriate forum.
 

Rapadou

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Robert said:
My quest is trying to understand your point and the reason you posted in the debates forum.

Obviously I'm wasting my time...

HAHAHAHA. unmasking the phantoms, in other words unmasking the myths. Being hidden under the masks of prosperity all the while demonizing the neighbor next door and portraying it as if it's economy is quite inferior to that of yours. Choas has no boundaries, only time will tell indeed as far as who will carry the torch!

When the foundation of house was built on faulty bricks, camouflaging one's inner ills. Sooner of later, reality might just becomes one's worse enemy. Enjoy one's "prosperity" indeed, just hope one doesn't get Bottomed-out.................
 

Narcosis

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Sorry, I forgot you must be like 19 or 20 yers old. You just like quoting Bob Marley because it is cool right. Rage againts the Machine is more your time?

I thought you would be an expert on your idol, and would soon be telling us how the CIA plotted to kill Marley.

Back to the topic. FYI Tourism is now the worlds largest industry, The Dominican Republic enjoys several niches to enjoy and many more will be invested in the near future. As far as comparing Rockaway to the DR? Tell me you are kidding are you?
 

Rapadou

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Pib said:
I don't see it either. There's no point in replying if I don't even know what you are on about.

Is the DR that much more secure economically than its neighbor ("poor) next door? ANd how the DR's economy has plenty of faulty wires and in actually is not that much better or different than that of its "poorer" next door neighbor's. We're all in the same boat!!!!!!

And remember this is the D.R. forum. Haiti is next door, debates about Haiti are VERY MUCH welcome insofar as the debates actually pertains to the D.R.

If you are just sharing your insight with us (always a good thing) then I'll have to move the thread to a more appropriate forum.

indeed!!!! my points exacts, unmasking the myths propagandized over these last few posts. Voodoo economics as some has reffered to such out-of-this world claims. Things aren't as rosy/different as many of us are portraying them to be.
 

Robert

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Rapadou said:
indeed!!!! my points exacts, unmasking the myths propagandized over these last few posts. Voodoo economics as some has reffered to such out-of-this world claims. Things aren't as rosy/different as many of us are portraying them to be.

Good move Pib!

Criss, do your thing...
 

Rapadou

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Debate my points about camouflage/voodoo economics.
Debate my points about begging superpowers to adopt the nation.
Debate my points about the historical facts regarding pre-Duarte and post Trujillo.

Debate the impact of foreign investors and its false dependency.

There's plenty to debate in that post, but many have chosen not to. I guess facts are hard to debate and it can be seen as supernatural to some at times. If anything's supernatural it would be boasting/guaranteeing to always be on top..............

Insomniaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!

Why are my thread placed in such high regards.......wink wink
 

Pib

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One cannot address something that wasn't stated in the first place. If we are talking about voodoo and phantoms I must say that it is nonsense. I don't believe in supernatural phenomenon.

Now, addressing your points above, which you made after the thread, was moved.

Questions:
What is voodoo economics?
What nation is begging what superpowers to adopt them, and what do you mean by that?
What historical facts exactly are you talking about?

And most importantly, why do I feel like I am wasting my time?
 
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