Haitian border

GuRu · Dec 2, 2004

Hi all !
In January I'll be travelling around in DR, mostly the area close to the haitian border. My friend and I want to make a photobook/documentary about the Haitian immigration into the DR.
Can anybody help me out with addresses or places where we can make the best pictures and stories ?
I heard there was something in the papers about a future deportation of haitians ?? Does somebody know about this ??

Tnx in advance,

GuRu

GuRu · Dec 3, 2004

All of you can give information about car rentals and sad resorts, but none of you know sth about the haitian border ?? Que pasa ?

Chris · Dec 3, 2004

GuRu said:
All of you can give information about car rentals and sad resorts, but none of you know sth about the haitian border ?? Que pasa ?

I think perhaps the issue is that we know nothing about you. Would you give names and directions (addresses???) to someone that you don't know to go and do something that is only vaguely defined? I think not. "The best pictures and stories....."? The best pictures and stories about what? Tell us a whole lot more about what you are planning, where you want to go and why, and you'll be surprised at the depth of knowledge on this board.

GuRu · Dec 3, 2004

Okay Chris, you got point.
I know about the dept of knowledge, that's why I'm here.
My apologies for my impatience.

My friend is studying photography and for his final thesis he wanted me to join him so I could write for him.
He just got back from a trip to Vietnam, together with some other young photographers he was invited there by World Press Photo, so he's good

For this trip, I convinced him to join me to DR. Out of a lot of different possible subjects we chose 'the migration of haitian people into DR' and more in particular the life in the bateyes.
I have been travelling around (alone) in DR several times, but the border region is the only region I've never visited before. So I was wondering where to go.
Of course we want to go to Dajabon, but maybe somebody knows other important or interesting places where we can get into bateyes or talk to people who work for human rights organizations that operate there...

And how about Operation Cowboy ? What exactly is going on ? Is it too dangerous to go there as two gringos with a lot of photo and camera equipment ?? I have to say that my friend doesn't speak a word of Spanish, I only speak a little, but enough to survive my previous trips through the north, south east and centre of the country ;o)

Tnx in advance,

GuRu aka Jean de Gand (Belgium)

Porfio_Rubirosa · Dec 3, 2004

A good friend was the driver for the Haitian Consul to the DR during the Aristide regime. The Consul now works and lives in Santo Domingo, the driver in Barahona. If you like, I can put you in touch with one or both of them.

Yan-Yan · Dec 3, 2004

I hope you are ready...

Prepare yourself for what you are going to see... You will be going to the poorest area of an already very poor country.

I hope it's not the first time for you to see people living in very inhumane conditions... If you haven't, I urge you to do your research so you don't get the shock of your life...

Now, assuming that you know what you're getting yourself into, get in contact with that guy that porfirio_rubirosa is suggesting, it would be wise to get into that adventure with people that might know the area and speak the language.

I don't know how much time you've got, but these are the areas I know and I recommend:

Start from the south... Visit Barahona, mi personal favorite area of the country... Visit Para?so, Enriquillo and Bah?a de las Aguilas (and see what all that fuss is about - breathtaking!).

Start the bother from Pedernales up to Jiman?, this is where the adventure begins and you'll notice the drastic change in scenery... From dry and deserted Pedernales to the greenery of the mountains of "Cordillera del Sur" and back down do the desert. Once you reach Jiman? Visit the Lago Enrriquillo, it's absolutely worth it!...

The road (the last time I checked, like 10 years ago) was terrible...

I don't know if they've fixed the road from Jiman? to Comendador, but back then we had to go back to Neiba and from there to San Juan de la Maguana and from there to Pedro Santana, to take "Carretera International" that goes along the border until the town of Restauraci?n. If you want to skip Barahona, you can start running the border from that point, but you'd be missing half the fun, though.

The views on this road are spectacular! But it will easily take you 4 hours to do 100 km! This is where you'll see the stark difference between the two countries.

Finish in Dajab?n and reach the north coast by Monte Cristi and if you can, go along the north coast to the east.

If you want to do this right, take at least a week, you can find very basic, but clean accommodations in the towns of Pedernales, Jiman?, Pedro Santana and Dajab?n.

You'll find numerous rivers to swim in and places to stop and eat, grab a bear or hear amazing stories from locals... If you don't know where you are going, do not venture into Haiti, stick to the Dominican side of the border.

GuRu · Dec 6, 2004

Porfio_Rubirosa said:
A good friend was the driver for the Haitian Consul to the DR during the Aristide regime. The Consul now works and lives in Santo Domingo, the driver in Barahona. If you like, I can put you in touch with one or both of them.

Could be very useful, Porfio Rubirosa !! My emailaddress is zjean_at_skynet_dot_be. If you want to contact me so we can make further arrangements ? Muchisimas gracias !!!

GuRu · Dec 6, 2004

Yan-Yan said:
Prepare yourself for what you are going to see... You will be going to the poorest area of an already very poor country.

I hope it's not the first time for you to see people living in very inhumane conditions... If you haven't, I urge you to do your research so you don't get the shock of your life...

I've been in DR twice for one month, travelling around. I've already seen a lot of different places, but the border area is the only one I didn't go. (Wanted to in may, but couldn't because of the floodings)
I know it's the poorest area, and that we might encounter shocking situations, but I feel prepared. Tnx for your advice !

Yan-Yan said:
Now, assuming that you know what you're getting yourself into, get in contact with that guy that porfirio_rubirosa is suggesting, it would be wise to get into that adventure with people that might know the area and speak the language.

This is why I'm here... Looking for contacts. I already have a few in Dajabon, people who work for human right organizations.

Yan-Yan said:
I don't know how much time you've got, but these are the areas I know and I recommend:

We've got one month. But in that month I also want to spend some time with my friends in Sto Dgo. So let's say three weeks.

Yan-Yan said:
Start from the south... Visit Barahona, mi personal favorite area of the country... Visit Para?so, Enriquillo and Bah?a de las Aguilas (and see what all that fuss is about - breathtaking!).

Start the bother from Pedernales up to Jiman?, this is where the adventure begins and you'll notice the drastic change in scenery... From dry and deserted Pedernales to the greenery of the mountains of "Cordillera del Sur" and back down do the desert. Once you reach Jiman? Visit the Lago Enrriquillo, it's absolutely worth it!...

The road (the last time I checked, like 10 years ago) was terrible...

I don't know if they've fixed the road from Jiman? to Comendador, but back then we had to go back to Neiba and from there to San Juan de la Maguana and from there to Pedro Santana, to take "Carretera International" that goes along the border until the town of Restauraci?n. If you want to skip Barahona, you can start running the border from that point, but you'd be missing half the fun, though.

The views on this road are spectacular! But it will easily take you 4 hours to do 100 km! This is where you'll see the stark difference between the two countries.

Finish in Dajab?n and reach the north coast by Monte Cristi and if you can, go along the north coast to the east.

If you want to do this right, take at least a week, you can find very basic, but clean accommodations in the towns of Pedernales, Jiman?, Pedro Santana and Dajab?n.

All this in one week ? That sounds tempting! I always wanted to see Bahia de las Aguilas en Lago Enriquillo

I think we just might do that trip to end up in Dajabon and stay there for one week or more, that trip might be a good introduction.

Yan-Yan said:
You'll find numerous rivers to swim in and places to stop and eat, grab a bear or hear amazing stories from locals... If you don't know where you are going, do not venture into Haiti, stick to the Dominican side of the border.

We're not planning to go into Haiti. We'll have enough information on the dominican side I guess.
And talking about beer: I'm dying for an icecold presidente

Thanx for sharing your experience Yan-Yan !!

Mirador · Dec 6, 2004

I know it's the poorest area, and that we might encounter shocking situations, but I feel prepared. Tnx

I'm very familiar with the region. I remember once I took my fifteen year old stepson for a first-time tour of the border (the road between Pedro Santana and Restauraci?n), and stopping in San Juan de la Maguana, I had Alan buy several bags of lollipops. I told Alan, who is very blond, that we would stop on the way and he would step out of the SUV and offer the candy to the children. In my mischief, I knew that the children would be affaid of him. True to my expectations, as soon as they saw Alan with the bag of candy, the Haitian children would appear, but they would gesture Alan to throw the candy on the ground and step away. I gave him the rule that no approach no candy. Then I told him to strip to his shorts, and that seemed to dissarm the most daring and audacious of the children. And of course, the other children followed. Even adults approached laughingly for the candy.

Mirador

Yan-Yan · Dec 6, 2004

GuRu said:
Thanx for sharing your experience Yan-Yan !!

My pleasure... Have fun!

DMAO · Dec 6, 2004

Dajabon is a great town to start for stories.
It borderers with the Haitian town of Guanamende. These are two important ports of trade (people and merchandise).
The rest of the border is beatiful so, you'll get good pictures.

Chirimoya · Dec 7, 2004

DMAO said:
It borderers with the Haitian town of Guanamende.

...make that Ouanaminthe (Haitian name) or Juana Mendez (Dominican name). The spellings are very different but phonetically they're not that far apart.

:classic:

Mirador · Dec 7, 2004

Ouanaminthe (Haitian name) or Juana Mendez (Dominican name).

For the history buffs, originally it was Juana Mendez, and part of the Dominican Republic, until Trujillo in 1938 traded it for Jiman?, which was Haitian. Bad deal if you as me.

Mirador

GuRu · Dec 7, 2004

Chirimoya said:
...make that Ouanaminthe (Haitian name) or Juana Mendez (Dominican name

Can live with both

Even saw Wanamente once... Amazing how creative people can be

@ Mirador : They really exchanged Dajabon and Jimani ? Never read about that before... What was the reason ? That must have been just after the Massacre, right ?

Hillbilly · Dec 7, 2004

Don't bite off more than you can chew

If you want to see the effects of Haitian Immigration, then you had better refine your areas of interest and sightsee later.
1) Bateys are near sugar mills, so, near Santo Domingo you have Consuelo, Cristobol Colon and the other mills in San Pedro de Macoris.
2) Haitian Border events: Baciscally Market days, which are interesting and picturewque. Restauracion, Dajab?n and other towns have specific Market Days where aHiatians cross over to purchase and exchange.
3) Construction sites: Massive Haitian population dedicated to Construction. In fact there is not a single construction site without a predominance of Haitian workers.
4) Rice, plantain and banana cultivation. The Haitian farm worker feeds the Dominican population.
5) If you can get in touch with Grupo M, perhaps you can visit their factory in Ounamenthe, financed with World Bank money in an effort to keep Haitians on that side of the border. JIC

HB

GuRu · Dec 8, 2004

Don't bite off more than you can chew

Talking about a constructive reply ! Tnx a lot HB !!
Some questions:

Do you know on what day these markets take place ?
How about Little Haiti in Sto Dgo ? Might that barrio be of any interest ?
Is it safe for us to go to Ounamenthe ? I haven't been in Haiti before...
Grupo M is a clothing factory ?

Oh and I'm certainly going to check out the sugar mills. Didn't think about them as a possible place of interest.

Tnx again,

GuRu

Hillbilly · Dec 8, 2004

I don't know the answers to a lot of your questions

GuRu said:
Talking about a constructive reply ! Tnx a lot HB !!
Some questions:

Do you know on what day these markets take place ?

How about Little Haiti in Sto Dgo ? Might that barrio be of any interest ?

Is it safe for us to go to Ounamenthe ? I haven't been in Haiti before...

Grupo M is a clothing factory ?

Oh and I'm certainly going to check out the sugar mills. Didn't think about them as a possible place of interest.

Tnx again,

GuRu

But I can tell you how to find out.
Get a Phone Card and call the municipal offices of each town, Like Dajabon and Restauracion or B?nica and ask. They are in the phonebook.
Little Haiti would be a wonderful place to shoot.
Only if you go accompanied by soldiers or company officials Call Rufina Cordero, Public Relation at 809 575 2121 and ask her if she can set up a visit.
Grupo M is perhaps the largest private employer in the DR, employing about 14000 people in more than two dozen factories.

HB

GuRu · Dec 8, 2004

Wow great ! I'll ask one of my dominican friends back in sto dgo to make those phone calls for me

Do we really need soldiers to get into Little Haiti ? I don't know much about it, I got to know about it by reading a book... I think it was Wuckers 'Why the cocks fight' (really liked that one by the way!)

Chirimoya · Dec 8, 2004

You don't need soldiers to go into Little Haiti in Santo Domingo. I go there from time to time, and it's not the 'best' part of the city but not a 'no-go' area either. At night it is probably not safe for foreigners, but I wouldn't know from first hand experience. They probably don't have a PR department either.

I think HB was referring to something else, probably the controversial Grupo M factory on the Haitian side of the border.

DMAO · Dec 8, 2004

?????

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