Start of something great! Split Thread for Debate

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Gregg

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why this thread is so entrancing

i love the writing and the OP's ability to bring the scenes to life. however, for me, the attraction is the coming doom.

i do agree with AZB. you are acting as an anthropoligist but in a dishonest way. at least they tell everyone they are studying the people. something tells me you are more in love with the novel descent into ignorance and poverty than you are with the lady herself (what about your young neighbour Amber?). of course, you would not do this in the U.S. because it lacks an exotic, other-world feel. it is unfortunate that you need a separate, foreign environment to allow yourself to relax and observe.

you are treating these people, whether you know it or not, as objects. nothing good will come of this. i'm sure her older sons know this in an intuitive way. who doesn't like the excitement and danger of the ghetto? you are slumming it. it's been done many times before. but you have infilitrated someone's home and family.

look deep and see how arrogant you are. you feel you are some knight in shining armour there to rescue a family that cannot be rescued. you have the money, literacy and the ability to leave for the states anytime. what superiority you must feel, especially since you think you are doing them all a favour. you are looking on from a great height from a very priveleged country.

this woman's time is running out for securing an appropriate mate. something tells me you will not be there for the long term. i know, you bought the house and gave her money but you are just stroking your own ego.

bet you couldn't/wouldn't move in full-time and cut your safety lines to the U.S. there is a less than respectful amusement in their limitations that comes through. you are their big, colonial bwana that gets to run the show. there is nothing more dangerous, or pleasurable, than feeling good about controlling and influencing the lives of others.

my advice is not to become too fluent in the Spanish language or culture or the thrill will wear off. at some point, a few years out, this will become a "normal" environment without the exotic feel. then you will be looking at a 40+ woman that can't share a single thing with you. this is when you will rationalize some way of bailing out.

good writing though...
 

Pib

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Gregg said:
i do agree with AZB. you are acting as an anthropoligist but in a dishonest way. at least they tell everyone they are studying the people. something tells me you are more in love with the novel descent into ignorance and poverty than you are with the lady herself (what about your young neighbour Amber?). of course, you would not do this in the U.S. because it lacks an exotic, other-world feel. it is unfortunate that you need a separate, foreign environment to allow yourself to relax and observe.
I am glad to see that you can ascertain somebody's motives and psyche by reading a few posts on a message board. You can even make a living out of it.

I wish I had your talent.
 

Chris

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Gregg said:
i love the writing and the OP's ability to bring the scenes to life. however, for me, the attraction is the coming doom.

Gregg, for all you know, this may be simply fiction, written by someone who sits on the porch and observes. Well written fiction.... I would not castigate the writer for something that may be a true and realistic fairy story.
 

Robert

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You will be pleased to know that this thread will soon be a blog free of the physcoanalysis.
 

Gregg

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Pib said:
I am glad to see that you can ascertain somebody's motives and psyche by reading a few posts on a message board. You can even make a living out of it.

I wish I had your talent.

of course i can. he is a good writer. i never mentioned his motives. i am sure he feels motivated by many good thoughts. my point is that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. i think that overall his influence will be harmful to the family UNLESS he is actually committed to them. without citing examples, i would guess he is playing the sandbox there. AZB had it right, i was just trying to be less crude. it will be for the OP to answer.
 

Gregg

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at least i try

Robert said:
You will be pleased to know that this thread will soon be a blog free of the physcoanalysis.

Robert, at least i try to put some effort and thought into my posts. i do my best to be fair and explain myself. i proof read and try to spell and write clearly. sometimes it takes quite a bit of time. and, most of the time, i do not flame or attack on a purely personal basis (RickToronto being my only exception...).

comments like the one you just made are like mental farts. anyone can do that after having digested a rich meal of thoughts. i would be more impressed if you said whether you agree or not and why. aren't you supposed to set an example on here?

this is not a blog right now. it is a thread and there have been many responses already.

would you have preferred:

"way to go man. love to see your slumming it in the DR. hope you get's lots of the Amber's *** and tits because i bet's she's hot. cuz wow, you are cool. i wud screw wit' the putas cuz they hos! but uz payin' the bills so have fun."
 

Gregg

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not sure what the distinction is

Chris said:
Gregg, for all you know, this may be simply fiction, written by someone who sits on the porch and observes. Well written fiction.... I would not castigate the writer for something that may be a true and realistic fairy story.

this is written in first person and it is well written.

if it is fiction, then please take my comments to pertain to the main character.

if it is "real" then take my comments to pertain to the author.
 

Robert

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Gregg said:
Robert, at least i try to put some effort and thought into my posts. i do my best to be fair and explain myself. i proof read and try to spell and write clearly. sometimes it takes quite a bit of time. and, most of the time, i do not flame or attack on a purely personal basis (RickToronto being my only exception...).

comments like the one you just made are like mental farts. anyone can do that after having digested a rich meal of thoughts. i would be more impressed if you said whether you agree or not and why. aren't you supposed to set an example on here?

this is not a blog right now. it is a thread and there have been many responses already.

would you have preferred:

"way to go man. love to see your slumming it in the DR. hope you get's lots of the Amber's *** and tits because i bet's she's hot. cuz wow, you are cool. i wud screw wit' the putas cuz they hos! but uz payin' the bills so have fun."


Some of my best farts have been mental farts :)

Yes, I enjoyed your physcoanalysis of the author.
It's potentially as fictitious as the posts by Dan.

But... Moving onto much more important issues.

Sometimes, you just have to LET people write...
 

Gregg

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you're all missing the point here

Robert said:
Some of my best farts have been mental farts :)

Yes, I enjoyed your physcoanalysis of the author.
It's potentially as fictitious as the posts by Dan.

But... Moving onto much more important issues.

Sometimes, you just have to LET people write...

the highest compliment you can pay an author is to debate, seriously, the ideas put forward in the writing. it means the character, autobiographical or not, has come alive.

saying "way to go" and "great stuff" wears pretty thin after the first few days.

and Blogs without responses tend to die off after a while. it is like writing into empty space.

so, i admire everyone's loyalty to Dan but i will bet a few pesos that deep inside his writer's soul, the past few postings are truly the most satisfying.
 

Chris

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Gregg said:
so, i admire everyone's loyalty to Dan but i will bet a few pesos that deep inside his writer's soul, the past few postings are truly the most satisfying.

And I will bet a few pesos that the author is just writing to write and could not care two hoots about the responses. Good or bad, he/she will keep on writing. Anyone for a book study group on Dan's writing? (I hate myself for even thinking this!) This one I'd like to simply keep on enjoying without analysing, but I guess we all have our own foibles.
 

Gregg

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Chris said:
And I will bet a few pesos that the author is just writing to write and could not care two hoots about the responses. Good or bad, he/she will keep on writing. Anyone for a book study group on Dan's writing? (I hate myself for even thinking this!) This one I'd like to simply keep on enjoying without analysing, but I guess we all have our own foibles.

if he were just writing for the sake of writing, he wouldn't have posted on the DR1 forum!!! it would still be in a private journal. every author wishes to be read.

and, as i have stated numerous times, it is good writing.

why don't we leave it to the author to respond. he seems more than capable.
 

Gregg

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Chris, would love to know how you form a study group to read his work without analyzing it? seems to defeat the purpose of a study group.
 

Gregg

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Chris said:
Gregg, turn on your sarcasm meter and read again....

oooooops... had the meter turned off. i did think you were serious. and i was wondering how far the group would go with only a few pages written in this story.... :cross-eye

cheers.
 

Mirador

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peeping tom?

Psychoanalysis? social commentary? I get nothing of the sort from Dan?s writing. Dan writes with the narrow angle lens approach of a photographer. His fixed camera (or writing) pivots with the unobtrusiveness of an invisible hidden cam, producing a continuous stream of detail of unfamiliar closeness, like the close-up shots of a pornographic film, while some are bothered, others relish it...
 

dawnwil

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Aug 27, 2003
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gloves off now

oh boy, I could really get into this debate, particularly about the motives of one who writes in an open forum for others to read.

Years ago, on a writer's site, was a similar debate over the comment of a very good writer who said he 'only wrote for himself'.

ha! Then the question must be: "why are you submitting your writing for critique here?"

I have some beliefs about that romanticized ivory-tower b.s. many who practise an art will tell you about their work... ie. "I only do it for myself."

I SO disagree!!

How can a work of art be complete without its audience? Its 'apt audience' as so aptly described by one of the famous old-time NY editors.

Think about it... one creates a work as a form of communication about life, or one's perceptions about life. There is a subconscious, if not fully understood, need to communicate something about one's personal take on things.

A work of art is incomplete without its audience. Sometimes timing is off and the apt audience of size happened years before the work. Other times, years after. But it's a moot point if the artist's timing happens to be off. Thems the breaks. Not everyone will have his finger on the pulse of the time.

So what might that make an audience of one-- oneself? I say it's navel gazing in the extreme-- mental masturbation, if you will.

god, that felt good. hee
 

Chris

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Dawn, a quick comment - and always debatable ... one may write for someone to read, but if one is a writer/artist/whatever, you will do it, whatever the consequences (or the paycheck), whether they read, whether they comment or not. It may be a complete work with audience, or an incomplete work, sans audience.. but if one does it, it is a work. (Now I think of the old tree in the forest thing... If a writer writes, and no-one reads, does anyone hear the tree in the forest fall? Geez, lame eh!) Nevertheless, if no-one hears the tree in the forest fall, will Dan keep on writing? I think so. Mental masturbation may not be such a bad thing...
 

dawnwil

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heh heh

Trees falling aside, that is the question: is it a complete work if no one sees it?

No, something is missing without audience. The work is incomplete because audience is the final ingredient.

And this has absolutely nothing to do with paycheck, btw. I have a very difficult time selling my stuff-- I am much more excited by the idea of giving it away.

Also, I would never do it 'for' an audience, that's not what I meant. It's simply the idea that the work itself is incomplete without one. Perhaps subtle, but a major difference.

I have said nothing here that is right. Or wrong. It's how I feel about it, without qualifying as 'my' opinion. I say it goes without saying that what one writes is one's opinion. Or ought to be. Nothing worse than pre-packaged thought being pawned as one's own. :)
 
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