Identity of Latinos

Teddy_Ruxpin · May 27, 2005

I've noticed that a lot of Latinos are not being taught their history or their racial makeups. And those who have a Latino parent and an American parent seem to be even more uninformed about their identities.

For example, I might meet a Puerto Rican and I'll say 'so what race are you?' and they say 'Puerto Rican', then I say 'No, I didn't ask you your nationality, I asked you your race', and then this dumbfounded look rests upon their faces. Then I say 'Puerto Rico means Rich Port. Spaniards unloaded African slaves at the slave 'Port', and put them to work in the fields with the Boriken Indians, which made the Spanish 'Rich'(not to mention the gold they plundered), and that is why Christopher Colombus named it Rich Port or Puerto Rico. Then I have to go into 'a Puerto Rican can be any color, black, white, Indian, or all three combined in most cases'. And I usually have to give Dominicans a history lesson too, about St. Dominic and blah blah blah. Which is pretty sad seeing as I'm not even of Latin descent and yet I know the African Diaspora and the Spanish conquests very well. When I tell people these things they are amazed at how much they didn't know about themselves. For example, lots of people go around saying Boricua, and I ask 'do you even know what it means?'

I have some friends who have a Puerto Rican parent and an African American parent. They often say 'I'm half black and half Puerto Rican'. Then I say 'that's impossible, Puerto Rican isn't a race, you're half American and half Puerto Rican'. Then lots of people that I meet even go so far as to call themselves Spanish(shock!). Most of the people I know don't know the difference between a Spanish person and a Spanish speaking person.

I think schools should teach more Latin American history and more about the African Diaspora. Not only for the sake of Latin American kids, but for the sake of Americans in general because I feel that most people look at America as the U.S. and exclude South and Central America. Most kids don't know that the Spanish were the first to bring African slaves to the new world, most don't know about their Indio roots or that Spanish was not their primary language. Schools should try to do more.

mofi · May 28, 2005

In case you haven't noticed, Americans schools don't teach much outside of of the United States. They also sensor alot of events that take place outside of the states as not to offend the public ect. This is definitely an interesting topic.

Pana · May 28, 2005

I agree with what you said about Latinos not knowing there identity, I once was like that when I was young and as I grew older and went to colledge and studied about the history of Latin America my eyes where opened. I am American of Panamanian decent and I always thought I was differnt from the people that where non-spanish speaking even though I was a person of color, the funny thing is that people of color never considerd me to be like them because I spoke spanish, and then people who spoke spanish where surprised I spoke spanish because I didnt fit the typical sterotype of a Latino. African influences in Latin culture was surpressed, but you still see influences in the (features ex... bodies,hair, skin tone), (music Merengue ,Salsa, Rumba, Reggaeton ex..). Indians are only from Asia and not from North America the people on this side of the world where the aboriginal people artwaks Tainos as the Spanish would say they wiped out the just about the entire population of the Tainos in the Caribbean. Mexicans are probaly the only Latinos that dont call themselves Spanish unlike other ones , as for me I never call my self Spanish or Hispanic I call my self Latino of African decent with drops of European blood.

Pana · May 28, 2005

mofi said:
In case you haven't noticed, Americans schools don't teach much outside of of the United States. They also sensor alot of events that take place outside of the states as not to offend the public ect. This is definitely an interesting topic.

In the USA you do not learn anything until you go to colledge and that is where your mind starts to open and you really begin to learn about the world.

Frank the Tank · May 28, 2005

ronaldobklyn said:
In the USA you do not learn anything until you go to colledge and that is where your mind starts to open and you really begin to learn about the world.

colledge?? Do you mean college?? I'm guessing spelling wasn't one of the classes you took.

jackquontee · May 28, 2005

Very interesting

Teddy_Ruxpin, I found your comments to be very interesting. I always admire intelligence and truth.

I used to date a girl who claimed that she was Cape Verdean Portuguese, as do all the other people who are of similar descent. I had to explain to her that, no, there is no such race, or even ethnic group, as Cape Verdean Portuguese. Cape Verde is a geographical location off the west coast of Africa, not a race or ethnicity. So, the truth is that she was a mix of African and Portuguese. It amazes me that anyone would refer to themselves in a way to try and mask who/what they really are. Some do so out of innocent ignorance, while others do so out of shame.

I happen to be what is refered to as Cape Verdean Portuguese which, for me, means a mix of African and Portuguese. I also happen to be Mexican American which, for me, means a mix of Spanish and the native population of what is present day Mexico. And, finally, I happen to be Native American which, for me, means a descendant of people previously emigrated from Asia.

I'll end by saying (before someone else gets the chance to say it) that, yes, I am a mutt. And a proud one. But, I'm also reminded about something my father used to say. "We're not prejudiced. We'll screw anybody." LOL.

heldengebroed · May 28, 2005

does anyone realy knows what his roots are? I have the privelege to have some uncles with a lot of time that have been lookikg at the family tree. I can assure you that the result of these investigations is strange. I'm belgian with a flemish name on both fathers and mothers side. For lines of the four of my grand parents i can trace the familyhistory 2 3 or even 4 centuries which is exceptional considering the devastating influence of the french revolution on european administration of that period.
Here comes

My family name comes from a orphan girl that gained her living by " making angels" (abortion)
My grandmothers name (fathers side) comes from prussia
My mothers name comes from a Portuges nobleman who has.... in flandres fields
My Grandmothers name (mothers side) comes from England.

So conclussion i'm a homo sapiens sapiens like most of us :nervous: .

fortywater · May 28, 2005

to add..

I also knew someone who was born in PR but had both parents from DR, yet when you asked them what they were they only said Puerto Rican.

Also, is a person with African blood from the DR, Panama, Columbia, etc. African-American? If not, do they only consider the US to be America? And if they say no because they are mixed with other races, then what should we call African-Americans in the US who have other races in their family trees? Most "black" people in the states have some Caucasian or Native-American in them, so I was curious about the rationale behind everyones racial nomenclature. Just wanted to throw that out there for discussion.

jackquontee · May 28, 2005

Sure do

Yes, I know exactly who and what I am. As a member of a Native American tribe, the US government requires us to "prove" who we are by documenting our geneaology, a process required in order to gain what is referred to as "Federal Recognition'. I've always found this odd since the gov't doesn't require any other race or ethnicity to do the same.

As far as Blacks, or African Americans, are concerned, more often than not they had no choice in determining who or what they were/are. US Government practice and policy was that if you had an ounce of black in you, you were considered black, no matter what other race or ethinicity you shared, and especially if you were mixed with white. And, that was/is based on the policy/practice of racism. Additionally, an African-American is an American of African descent. In the same way that other ethnicities refer to themselves as Irish-American, Italian-American, Mexican-American, and so forth. I personally believe that once the pot becomes mixed, it is your choice to identify with the ethnicity that you feel most comfortable with. The problem I have is when others come along and want to tell you what you are or should be.

fortywater, you stated that there are many Blacks who are mixed with Caucasian and Native American. That being said, it can also then be said that there are many Caucasians who are mixed with Black (which is more likely the case since it was the white slave master who initiated sex with his black slaves) and Native American. Should those whites be required to identify with either of their mixed ethnicities, rather than the one (Caucasian) which they choose to identify with?

Additionally, people need to be more aware of what race is when discussing race. There are three races; the Mongoloid, Caucasoid, and Negroid races. From these are derived the various ethnicities. One's race and ethnicity is what it is. That cannot be changed, nor should it be denied. What people have a tendency to do these days is to identify with their place of birth, or place of residency, and pass that off as a race or ethnicity.

Pana · May 28, 2005

There are no such things as race!!!

Additionally, people need to be more aware of what race is when discussing race. There are three races; the Mongoloid, Caucasoid, and Negroid races. From these are derived the various ethnicities. One's race and ethnicity is what it is. That cannot be changed, nor should it be denied. What people have a tendency to do these days is to identify with their place of birth, or place of residency, and pass that off as a race or ethnicity.[/QUOTE]

I believe that there are no such thing as race for the very fact in the oldest book in the world the bible, torah, qur'an, etc.... in no where does it mention a persons race it was man who seen the diffrences in people and started all this non-sense about race, when it comes down to it we are all Gods creation no matter what we look like or where we are from we need to treat each other with respect and dignity the way we would want to be treated.

FuegoAzul21 · May 28, 2005

I beleive that the reason Latinos are not educated more on the entire race subject amongst Latinos becuase it gives people more of a chance to divide us and weaken our unity.Also, race in Latin America has never been so much of an issue as it has been in the U.S.A.In the U.S.A most hispanics are concerned with nationality rather than race to a point where they beleive that everyone from a certain country is of the same race.So, most hispanics figure that becuase we speak the same language,share some cultural aspects,many go through the same expeirience of immigrating to the U.S.A, and going through hardships,that we are one,this unites us and empowers our community.Messing with all that race crap is poison to the community .I think thats what many people want,for latinos to fight against each other and divide,becuase traditional America culture cannot fathom a multiracial sub-group classified as a race.Face it , the Latino community is growing at an uncontrolable rate and getting stronger every year,in the year 2050,maybe half of the U.S.A will be hispanic(Latin American).The other groups want us to divide ,so they do not have to worry about another group taking over.

hugoke01 · May 28, 2005

What race are you ?

I find this a very strange question .. Never heard anybody asking to anyone : What race are you ? and believe that if you ask that question to some white guys in the USA they might answer you : I'm Irish or whatever

Pana · May 28, 2005

FuegoAzul21 said:
I beleive that the reason Latinos are not educated more on the entire race subject amongst Latinos becuase it gives people more of a chance to divide us and weaken our unity.Also, race in Latin America has never been so much of an issue as it has been in the U.S.A.In the U.S.A most hispanics are concerned with nationality rather than race to a point where they beleive that everyone from a certain country is of the same race.So, most hispanics figure that becuase we speak the same language,share some cultural aspects,many go through the same expeirience of immigrating to the U.S.A, and going through hardships,that we are one,this unites us and empowers our community.Messing with all that race crap is poison to the community .I think thats what many people want,for latinos to fight against each other and divide,becuase traditional America culture cannot fathom a multiracial sub-group classified as a race.Face it , the Latino community is growing at an uncontrolable rate and getting stronger every year,in the year 2050,maybe half of the U.S.A will be hispanic(Latin American).The other groups want us to divide ,so they do not have to worry about another group taking over.

Taking over what? Whites will always have control and power in the USA, and also the Latino population is growing in the USA because of Mexicans, probaly in the next 10 years or so in NYC alone they will surpass Puerto Ricans and Dominicans as the majority population of Latinos, they are reproducing at a fast rate. Why do you think the USA came up with these terms in gerneral to divide us people of color and they are doing a great job at it.

Pana · May 28, 2005

FuegoAzul21 said:
Also, race in Latin America has never been so much of an issue as it has been in the U.S.A.

Come on Fuego you know that's not true, I am Latino just as yourself and I will say that people in the USA dont sugar coat if they do not like you but in Latin America, they will smile in your face and then talk behind your back.

fortywater · May 28, 2005

jackquontee said:
fortywater, you stated that there are many Blacks who are mixed with Caucasian and Native American. That being said, it can also then be said that there are many Caucasians who are mixed with Black (which is more likely the case since it was the white slave master who initiated sex with his black slaves) and Native American. Should those whites be required to identify with either of their mixed ethnicities, rather than the one (Caucasian) which they choose to identify with.

I think I understand the point you were trying to make, but like you said, if you had one drop of black blood in you then you were considered black. So the slave master still thought of his offspring as being black, and so did the rest of the society. Also, I dated a girl once who grew up on a reservation because her father was half black and native american, but most people in the states would look at her and think "she's black".

I agree that it is going to be very interesting once latin americans become the largest group in america, especially when race is involved.

mofi · May 28, 2005

ronaldobklyn said:
In the USA you do not learn anything until you go to colledge and that is where your mind starts to open and you really begin to learn about the world.

I am aware of that but what a waste of time. Here in canada, in elementary school we start to learn about other countries. First you study cromagnon man and what not, then you start to learn about different parts of europe ect, I don't think we learn about canadian social studies until grade 10, then in grade 12 if you take history you learn about china/vietnam/and Africa the aparthide (sp). Then you can take what ever you want in university. My first year i took Latin American Studies, and Politics in Developing nations (Specifically Mexico, Guetmala, Nicaragua, Chile, Argentina and Uruguay).

To answer someone elses questions Most mexicans refer to themselves as latinos. Calling themself spanish in most cases would be incorrect as they are not true spaniards most have spanish and then a mix of something else.

Now I have a question, does anyone have any idea where the last name "Oscoy" comes from?

mofi · May 28, 2005

heldengebroed said:
does anyone realy knows what his roots are? I have the privelege to have some uncles with a lot of time that have been lookikg at the family tree. I can assure you that the result of these investigations is strange. I'm belgian with a flemish name on both fathers and mothers side. For lines of the four of my grand parents i can trace the familyhistory 2 3 or even 4 centuries which is exceptional considering the devastating influence of the french revolution on european administration of that period.
Here comes

My family name comes from a orphan girl that gained her living by " making angels" (abortion)
My grandmothers name (fathers side) comes from prussia
My mothers name comes from a Portuges nobleman who has.... in flandres fields
My Grandmothers name (mothers side) comes from England.

So conclussion i'm a homo sapiens sapiens like most of us :nervous: .

I agree with you. Not many people know this information.
My Dads last name- Originated in france but over time the family moved to scotland where they became frasers of lovett- spelling changed, and they immigrated to canada in the 1800's by boat to pictou county Nova Scotia.

His mother is half irish and half spanish from spain

My mothers last name- is from norway, although I believe they have some german ties in there family

My grandma is from canada, but both her parents were born in austria and immigrated to canada a few years before my grandma was born.

FuegoAzul21 · May 28, 2005

ronaldobklyn said:
Taking over what? Whites will always have control and power in the USA, and also the Latino population is growing in the USA because of Mexicans, probaly in the next 10 years or so in NYC alone they will surpass Puerto Ricans and Dominicans as the majority population of Latinos, they are reproducing at a fast rate. Why do you think the USA came up with these terms in gerneral to divide us people of color and they are doing a great job at it.

well you obviously see the point.White Americans, right now, are scared for the future becuase they see that soon they will be a minority in what they beleive is soley thier country.People of color will be the majority and whites will lose some power , especially when it comes to politics.Of course they are going to try to divide us, its to secure their satus as the reigning group.Now in a country that is still racially divided the last thing the Latino community needs is racial division within the community.That is why i say to stay away from the race garbauge and see the bigger picture.We are immigrants who speak the same language,go through many of the same expeirience in this country,we have many of the same needs and wants,there are many cultural similarities,our unity is vital

P.S i want people to understand that i love the U.S.A and what it has done for me and my family but , sometimes you must call a spade a spade

FuegoAzul21 · May 28, 2005

ronaldobklyn said:
Come on Fuego you know that's not true, I am Latino just as yourself and I will say that people in the USA dont sugar coat if they do not like you but in Latin America, they will smile in your face and then talk behind your back.

You have to compare how race has been viewed in the U.S.A's history and in the rest of Latin Americas history.The U.S.A has be far more concerned on race than latin america.They dont have Ku Klux Klans in Latin America,they never had Jim Crow laws, they never needed civil rights movements(some places might needed it),you see what im getting at ,notice that the U.S.A has always had a segregated society amongst races till a point where racial mixing wasnt accepted until recently,where as in Latin America its been the basis of most of the populations(most people are mixed) for centurys now.

Teddy_Ruxpin · May 28, 2005

ronaldobklyn said:
Additionally, people need to be more aware of what race is when discussing race. There are three races; the Mongoloid, Caucasoid, and Negroid races. From these are derived the various ethnicities. One's race and ethnicity is what it is. That cannot be changed, nor should it be denied. What people have a tendency to do these days is to identify with their place of birth, or place of residency, and pass that off as a race or ethnicity.

I believe that there are no such thing as race for the very fact in the oldest book in the world the bible, torah, qur'an, etc.... in no where does it mention a persons race it was man who seen the diffrences in people and started all this non-sense about race, when it comes down to it we are all Gods creation no matter what we look like or where we are from we need to treat each other with respect and dignity the way we would want to be treated.[/QUOTE]

Well I think he was speaking in factual terms rather than opinion. There are only 3 races, some people say that we're all one race, some people say that we're not. We're all one...species. We all belong to the human race but the human race in fact does consist of 3 races.

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