Roberto and his stupid new palm trees

Status
Not open for further replies.

GringoCArlos

Retired Ussername
Jan 9, 2002
1,416
40
0
Just having returned to the DR for a brief visit, couldn`t help but notice that Santo Domingo`s bonehead mayor has cut down all of the medium to large-sized shade trees along the median of Ave Lincoln and is now replacing them with a bunch of cheap-looking palm trees. I guess he thought there was just too darn much shade along Ave Lincoln, (or else he or his family own a vivero that just happens to sell palm trees, or relocate them from el campo).

Why does he want to turn Santo Domingo into a broken version of Miami Beach?
 

SantiagoDR

The "REAL" SantiagoDR
Jan 12, 2006
5,814
950
113
Change is inevitable........

Without change, how would the politicians line their pockets with more money?
 

amparocorp

Bronze
Aug 11, 2002
900
86
0
when you can't get old growth hardwood trees anymore in the jungle you get them from the next logical location, city streets. my question is not how much did we pay for the new trees, but , how much was made selling the old ones?
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,514
3,204
113
when you can't get old growth hardwood trees anymore in the jungle you get them from the next logical location, city streets. my question is not how much did we pay for the new trees, but , how much was made selling the old ones?
The real question people should be asking themselves is how much politics is behind the current critics frenzy towards this beautification project?

Funny how the plan begins under the PRD and no one blinked an eye. The plan was in effect all through the PLD's rule and no one blinked an eye either. Oh wait, it's a year until the next elections and many of the anti-metro crowd has been silenced considerably in the last few months, so now the critics will focus on something else! It all makes sense now.

And to think that PRD opponents are some of the loudest anti-Santo Domingo Verde critics when they were the one's who started the darn project!

Remember the slogan under the PRD: "Santo Domingo, ciudad de palmas (or something along those lines)"?

Wow, people do have short memories!

Aaaah, Dominican politics...

-NALs
 

Don Juan

Living Brain Donor
Dec 5, 2003
856
0
0
That's exactly it!

when you can't get old growth hardwood trees anymore in the jungle you get them from the next logical location, city streets. my question is not how much did we pay for the new trees, but , how much was made selling the old ones?

I can't imagine anyone thinking that cutting down shade trees to "beautify" the city makes any sense! Why didn't they just plant the darned palms alongside or on treeless spots? You're right, Amparocorp, Nobody could possibly be that dumb!! Actually, This was a brilliant idea! Let's harvest all this precious wood on the pretext of doing something good for the city!

I think somebody should investigate where the wood ends up. If sold by anyone in gov, the tree murderer should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, Damn it!!
 

LatinoRican

New member
Apr 11, 2004
211
6
0
Trees cut down in POP

I clicked on the link to Sosua News and could not believe that the administration of Puerto Plata had cut down all the large, shade-giving trees in the main plaza of the city! As my wife is from POP, we have walked that plaza many times and sat under the shade of the trees that have now been so senselessly destroyed. And for what? To plant palm trees also? What happens to people once they are elected to office? Do they become insensible to everything except their own benefit? Cutting down those trees is an offense, not only to the city of POP, but to the country as a whole.
 
Last edited:
L

LarrySpencer

Guest
And what about all the palm trees they are planting along Las Americas? How many times are they going to plant them and them pull them back out? Is this because they are afraid that if they don't that the next hurrican will do it for them? If this is the case, why didn't they just think of that and plant them after the rainy season?
 

Stodgord

Bronze
Nov 19, 2004
668
14
0
I can see some benefits to replacing old wide and low hanging trees for thin high palm trees. They are;

1- Citizen security reasons. Those wide trees created a heaven for criminals to ambush their victims at night.

2- The hot son will prevent "vendedores ambulantes" (panhandlers) from setting up shop under a tree.

3- Homeless won't be able to set camp either, during the day.

4- Overall, the thined out view will give people and motorists a better viewing range, helping unsuspected victims react quicker when a drag race on.


By the way those nay sayers are just exercising their right to "el brinco y el pataleo" .
 

GringoCArlos

Retired Ussername
Jan 9, 2002
1,416
40
0
You left one out Stodgord - Roberto`s grandchildren can cut down the royal palms in 40 years and then cut them into boards to build new wood shacks (I mean houses) for those less-fortunate Dominicans, gaining their votes, and then replanting hardwood trees again in the streets of Santo Domingo.
 

Stodgord

Bronze
Nov 19, 2004
668
14
0
You left one out Stodgord - Roberto`s grandchildren can cut down the royal palms in 40 years and then cut them into boards to build new wood shacks (I mean houses) for those less-fortunate Dominicans, gaining their votes, and then replanting hardwood trees again in the streets of Santo Domingo.

At least his has a plan, may not be perfect one, and may not make everyone happy, but is still a plan.
 

GringoCArlos

Retired Ussername
Jan 9, 2002
1,416
40
0
I am sure the captain of the Titanic also had a plan , it just didn`t work out. Words straight out of the mouths of McCain and Kyl. How original.

If your argument is that Roberto has cut down all of the shade trees along Ave Lincoln to reduce crime at night, then please explain to me who it is that is out walking along Ave Lincoln at night who is in such danger? I seem to only see jevitos dragracing up and down, and their parents either going to, or coming from dinner out in their shiny jeepetas - no one is out walking, and there are enough lights to read the newspaper with, even in the shadows.

What`s next? Gazcue?
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,514
3,204
113
Listin Diario: Santo Domingo, ?verde? (June 2, 2007)

Here are a few quotes I've taken from the Listin Diario article, which you can access via the link at the end of this post.

The words in red are in Spanish and in the blue the English equivalent. Within the quotes in English, whatever is in brackets was inserted by me and anything in parenthesis after the quotes is my own observation of the quoted material.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Se persigue, primero, la eliminaci?n de especies introducidas como el nim, el chach? y la acacia, que causan da?o por su r?pida propagaci?n y su impacto en las infraestructuras.

Otra parte del proyecto es la reconstrucci?n de aceras, paredes y calzadas da?adas y la reforestaci?n con ?rboles nativos como caoba, avellano, alm?cigo, aceituno, grigr?, guayac?n, mara, uva de playa, roble blanco, penda, sam?n y otros. Tambi?n palmas: reales, corozo, alexandra, cana y otras.


First, the elimination of introduced species such as nim, chach?, and acacia, which have caused damage due to their rapid propagation and their impact on infrastructure.

The other part of the project is the reconstruction of damaged sidewalks and walls and reforestation with native trees such as mahogany, avellano, alm?cigo, aceituno, grigr?, guayac?n, mara, seagrape, white oak, pendan, sam?n and others. Also, palms: royal, corozo, alexandra, palmetto and others.


(This makes much sense. Given that much of the planting of trees throughout the city and through the years were done with little attention to aesthetic, possible damage to infrastructure, etc; the ideal would be for such problems along publicly owned places to be remedied now. For example, there are many types of trees that are not grown on medians or near sidewalks in many US cities for the simple fact that such trees causes damage to such infrastructure as the tree grows, especially if the tree has thick roots too close to the surface of the ground. Many of the trees planted in the central areas of American cities were done with much scrutiny, advice from botanists and other specialists, etc. The plantings that have been occuring in Dominican cities until this project was put in effect had not scrutiny, no advice from experts or anything of the sort and for that reason many of the problems associated with those species of trees have to be remedied.

Also, notice that its not just palms that are being planted.)

------------------------------------------------------------

Esta semana reporteros de LIST?N DIARIO fuimos testigos del proceso de extracci?n y traslado de 18 palmas en Villa Restauraci?n, Ban?. All? fue posible conversar con Radham?s Rodr?guez, gerente administrativo de Caribbean Garden Proyect, uno de los suplidores de palma cana del proyecto.

Rodr?guez explica que el precio que le paga el Ayuntamiento por cada palma extra?da, transportada y sembrada en la ciudad es de 7,500 pesos.


This week Listin Diario journalists witnessed the process of extraction and transfer of 18 palms in Villa Restauraci?n, Ban?. There it was possible for them to talk with Radham?s Rodr?guez, administrative manager of the Caribbean Garden Project, one of the suppliers of palmetto palms.

Rodr?guez explains that the price city hall pays him for each extracted, transfered, and sown palm to the city is 7,500 pesos.


(RD$7,500 is not the same as the RD$30,000+ being said by political opponents and those who oppose this project based on mere cynical speculation.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ahora bien, ?puede un ?rbol ser perjudicial? Hay criterios que determinan si es o no pertinente que est? en determinado lugar. Algunos de esos criterios son, por ejemplo, si interrumpe flujos normales: drenaje fluvial, la circulaci?n vehicular..., si altera infraestructuras, si su crecimiento altera el cableado, o es muy fr?gil y quebradizo, si afecta el crecimiento de otras especies o si son al?rgenas o venenosas

Can a tree be dangerous? Certain criteria may determine if a tree is or is not depending on the location of such. Some criterias are, for example, if normal flows are interrupted: drainage, vehicular circulation, if damage is caused to infrastructure, if [the trees] growth alters the [electric/telecommunications] wiring, or if its too fragil, if it affects the growth of other species or if they cause allergies or are venemous [to people].

(Anyone who has ever walked the sidewalks of Santo Domingo knows very well that all those problems are present all over the city. Damaged sidewalks (which poses a health risk to pedestrians who may trip and fall) due to trees not suitable to an urban environment having roots that are too big is a feature of the Santo Domingo urban landscape. Such trees should be replaced with more urban friendly species, which not only includes palms (eventhough palms are preferred for the major avenues), but the other non-palm species mentioned in the article which are also being planted all over the city and conveniently being ignored by the critics.)

Santo Domingo, ?verde?

-NALs
 

GringoCArlos

Retired Ussername
Jan 9, 2002
1,416
40
0
There are thousands upon thousands of neem trees ("nim" en espa?ol) which were planted all over the Republica in the 60`s and 70`s , and I`ll bet there aren`t three people here , other than maybe Hillbilly or AZB, who can tell you WHY they were planted.

Neem comes from India, another very poor country. The Peace Corps and other similar organizations, planted these neem trees to help the poor here. The neem in India is known as the "Pharmacy Tree", because it provides some of the deepest shade of any tree, tolerates years of drought without any additional water, its' twigs can be used as toothbrushes, and the twigs and leaves have several chemicals present that provide antibacterial activity in the mouth and gums, thereby helping poor people keep their teeth.

Chewing (but not swallowing - that might make one vomit) 10 neem leaves every morning will keep one`s mouth free from infections and gum disease. Indians have been using neem for 5,000 years. And it's FREE. THAT`s why it was brought here to the DR.

Drinking a tea made from its leaves is anti-parasital. Crushed and dampened leaves will treat skin diseases or infections. The bark has similar actions. Oil from its seeds will do many of the same treatments of the skin or for infections.

The leaves are also insecticidal, but do not kill the insects immediately, they instead inhibit the fertility of insects and in time, will wipe them out. Cattle will hover under neem trees for the deep shade and because the flies won't bother them there. The presence of a neem tree will persuade mosquitos to go somewhere else. A neem leaf in standing water will prevent the mosquitos from breeding there.

Yes, they have invasive roots. They do not make good street trees. They DO help reduce air pollution, so a better place for them was in parks and or private yards in a city setting. They will tolerate anything (too dry, too wet, bad soil, good soil, rocky soil, etc) except salty soil - too close to the ocean, or freezing temperatures.

My guess is that the Peace Corps explained all of this to a few dominicanos in the 60`s, who either didn`t listen very well (what's new?) or else didn`t bother to pass on the knowledge. You sure don`t see any neems around that are only 10 years old. San Pedro has several parks with many neems, as do other cities here.

They should be appreciated better, and not just let uneducated people like Roberto blast them as just "introduced, unwanted species". Maybe this should be a new project for the Peace Corps, if they are still active here - educating the next generation of poor dominicans about the good that can come from "trash trees" such as neem.

Palm trees do NOTHING. They do "zip" for air pollution, which is a major and growing problem in Santo Domingo. They generate trash in the form of falling fronds. And they enrich someone to plant them, and maintain them. Neems don?t need any attention, they just grow once planted. Maybe Roberto should pass out 10,000 or 20,000 neem seedlings to people to plant in their yards if he doesn`t want Santo Domingo to turn into Smoggo Domingo.
 

ExtremeR

Silver
Mar 22, 2006
3,078
328
0
I mean why is this a stupid plan?? Because you just have to rave about every move that authorities make??? Why in Miami it wasnt an stupid move?? You see the palmeras like cheap is because those are young specimens that hasnt yet developed completely. I mean everybody have to oposse every plan.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,514
3,204
113
They should be appreciated better, and not just let uneducated people like Roberto blast them as just "introduced, unwanted species". Maybe this should be a new project for the Peace Corps, if they are still active here - educating the next generation of poor dominicans about the good that can come from "trash trees" such as neem.

Palm trees do NOTHING. They do "zip" for air pollution, which is a major and growing problem in Santo Domingo. They generate trash in the form of falling fronds. And they enrich someone to plant them, and maintain them. Neems don?t need any attention, they just grow once planted. Maybe Roberto should pass out 10,000 or 20,000 neem seedlings to people to plant in their yards if he doesn`t want Santo Domingo to turn into Smoggo Domingo.
Every single nim tree within the city WILL NOT BE CUT. Only those that are in places such as sidewalks or plazas, where the pavement can easily be damaged by their expanding roots, etc.

Similarly, the trees being planted are NOT JUST PALM TREES!

Many people on this website need to understand that ignoring the facts will not make them go away, so please stop cherry picking on the information about this project that can easily be used outside of context to criticize this very same project and appear as a true tree-hugging savior.

Now, if it was only true that the only trees being planted were palms and every single nim tree within the city would be cut, then the argument above would make sense. But the problem is that PALMS ARE NOT THE ONLY TREES BEING PLANTED AND ALL THE NIM TREES WILL NOT BE CUT!

For that reason, the naysayers here are simply blowing hot air and nothing more!

-NALs
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,514
3,204
113
I mean why is this a stupid plan?? Because you just have to rave about every move that authorities make??? Why in Miami it wasnt an stupid move?? You see the palmeras like cheap is because those are young specimens that hasnt yet developed completely. I mean everybody have to oposse every plan.
I keep wondering how can a palm (or any tree for that matter) look "cheap"?

How can something as natural as a tree look cheap?

:confused:

-NALs
 

Stodgord

Bronze
Nov 19, 2004
668
14
0
I think the naysayers in STO DGO missed their flight to Prague for the G8 summit or maybe could not afford the ticket.
 
Jan 5, 2006
1,582
38
0
I think that everyone should take a wait and see approach on this. On the surface, this seems like a moronic plan because as of now, we only see palms. However, they state that other species of native trees will be planted.

I think that any fair minded person has to admit that Mr. Salcedo has done a good job as mayor of SD, so IMO he deserves the benefit of the doubt on this until the completion of the project.
 

GringoCArlos

Retired Ussername
Jan 9, 2002
1,416
40
0
Forgive me if I seem sensitive to full-grown shade trees getting cut down to make way for expensive-looking palm trees that will help make our streets safer.

In the past year, a new building was started on one side of our building. In the first month, the Haitians climbed up and proceeded to cut down 5 fully grown trees, two mahoganies that were each about 18" to 24" across, and 3 others of similar size that looked like the typical Gazcue trees (similar to a basswood is my guess), and another calabash ( a type of gourd) tree just inside the front wall.

All (except the calabash tree) were next to the street, and not on the property, and the Haitians managed to turn a shady street into a sunny, hot, bare street in the space of about 4 days with their machetes.

Within a month of this happening, Leonel`s GOVERNMENT started renovating an existing large house on the other side of our building, turning it into yet another huacal. They too, cut down two full-grown mahogany trees next to the street, and several other full-grown trees just inside the front wall of the property.

Then, they sent THEIR Haitians up into the trees on OUR side of the dividing wall. That`s when the stupid Gringo went outside and raised hell until the Dominican in charge came out to see what the problem was. He finally pulled the Haitians down out of our trees, after I first asked to see his permits from Ambiental, and then asked him if he wanted a lawsuit.

The government then proceeded to replace the cut trees with stick-shaped palm trees. The other side plans to do the same. I love this neighborhood, and the new palm trees will only help add to the ambience.

OK, deal - I will wait and see the shade produced in another 40 years by these ugly. thin, palm trees that I am POSITIVE the property owners replaced for a total of no more than 2,000 pesos. EXPENSIVE palm trees.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.