Haitian Baby born in Puerto Plata.........

As far as I am aware (and I could be wrong), Haitian choldren born here could get a Dominican birth certificate when Hippolito was in power. That right was taken away when Leonel came back. This is when the parents do not have Dominican nationality. So all of the 'illegal' Haitians I know (Many of whom have visas but not cedulas) have children who have no birth certificate.

That is indeed the case. If the babies parents are illegal they child cannot get a birth certificate and then the problem worsens becasue the child also cannot get an education....the problem just grows as the child grows!

By Dominican law, confirmed with a Supreme Court ruling, the birth of children born to parents that are not legal residents or citizens of the Dominican Republic is recorded in a birth book in the hospital, certifying the birth took place here.

The birth certificates that were granted before were irregular, a "fee" was charged for the service but the birth certificates and subsequent cedulas that were issued were in violation with Dominican law.

Dominican law also establishes that all children living in the DR have a right to education, regardless of citizenship or legal residency.

The big problem, and this also happens with hundreds of thousands of children born to Dominican-born parents, is that if the parents aren't legal or do not have a legal identity from any nation, then the children will have a hard time existing legally and thus unless they get an irregular cedula they need to live an underground life, despite being able to get at least a grade school education.

If the parents have Haitian legal documentation, then they need to request a Haitian birth certificate from the Haitian embassy in the DR. With that the child can have an identity as a Haitian and go to school through university. There are no restrictions here for Haitians studying in Dominican schools -- Haitians are charged as Dominicans in the larger universities. Only in some private universities are they given foreigner treatment.

Matilda said:

As far as I am aware (and I could be wrong), Haitian choldren born here could get a Dominican birth certificate when Hippolito was in power. That right was taken away when Leonel came back. This is when the parents do not have Dominican nationality. So all of the 'illegal' Haitians I know (Many of whom have visas but not cedulas) have children who have no birth certificate.

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This was not true, at least not officially, but remember the Dominican Ambassador(PRD) was selling fake Dominican passports to Chinese so anything is possible.

Just out of interest, I assume that if you are from another country in the world, be it Uk or USA or whereever, and you are here illegally in that you have overstayed your visa and do not have residency then exactly the same applies to any children you have here - no Dominican birth certificate?

By the way, thanks Dolores that was very clear.

Matilda

Matilda said:

Just out of interest, I assume that if you are from another country in the world, be it Uk or USA or whereever, and you are here illegally in that you have overstayed your visa and do not have residency then exactly the same applies to any children you have here - no Dominican birth certificate?

By the way, thanks Dolores that was very clear.

Matilda

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Exactly! If you are a foreigner in the DR, given as you said to reside out of status due to either one of the examples you made; then by a good margin your kids won't get a BC as they'll be considered to be "in transit".

It don't matter the race or nationality of the children and parents, but their legal status in the country.

The DR has been allowing pregnant women come from Haiti for the sole purpose of having their kids free of charge in Dominican Hospitals. Now imagine if we allowed every single pregnant woman to come to the DR to have their kids and also get Dominican citizenship just because they were born here?

Permit a side question on this subject: Supposed two Dominicans resided in the US illegally and had a child in the US. Would that child be a US citizen?

RonS said:

Permit a side question on this subject: Supposed two Dominicans resided in the US illegally and had a child in the US. Would that child be a US citizen?

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If you register the birth, you are automatically a U.S. citizen if you are born on U.S. soil.

PICHARDO said:

. Now imagine if we allowed every single pregnant woman to come to the DR to have their kids and also get Dominican citizenship just because they were born here?

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I thought that is what happened in the US? And I think it happens in the UK. If you are born in the country then you are a citizen.

matilda

The US allows this to happen because they don't offer pregnant women the opportunity to cross the borders into the US for the sole purpose of having their kids free of charge at the Hospitals.

The humanitarian work of the Church and several Jesuits in the DR contributes to the permanent out of status of those children, since most of the mothers brought into the country don't return after child birth as promised.

BTW: The program was started at the cueing of the medical teaching institutions because Dominicans don't keep the same high levels of pregnancy as Haitians do. The more patients they attend, the more they could teach new students...

That's how the program really started...

Matilda said:

I thought that is what happened in the US? And I think it happens in the UK. If you are born in the country then you are a citizen.

matilda

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Let me know when the US and UK started to allow non-immigrants to cross the borders from Mexico to get free child birth at US hospitals and then return to their country without having to get a Visa of any kind:__________________________________________________

Please fill in the blank space...

I actually checked my copy of the US Constitution. The 14th Amendment provides that all persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to its jurisdiction, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside.

PICHARDO said:

Let me know when the US and UK started to allow non-immigrants to cross the borders from Mexico to get free child birth at US hospitals and then return to their country without having to get a Visa of any kind:__________________________________________________

Please fill in the blank space...

Click to expand...

I have no idea at all about US law. All I do know is that several Dominican friends of mine with US tourist visas go to the United States when she is pregnant so that the baby can be born there and be a US citizen. I assume they have to pay for the birth, so it tends to be richer Dominicans, but a US passport for life is worth a lot of money I would have thought.

I also know several Dominicans without cedulas which they cannot get as they do not have birth certificates. In most cases their parents sold their birth certificates to illegal Haitians. No cedula means no proper job, and it appears to be almost impossible to rectify. Not nice to be stateless all of your life.

I just think it is interesting that in order to have a Dominican birth certificate and hence citizenship you have to be here legally but maybe not in the USA or UK. And I would have thought that citizenship of those countries is worth a tad more than Dominican citizenship.

Matilda

RonS said:

I actually checked my copy of the US Constitution. The 14th Amendment provides that all persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to its jurisdiction, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside.

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This is the problem in the US...
The children then have access to all social services...WIC, Food Stamps, TANF, Medicaid
And yes, they do have their children for free...it is called emergency Medicaid...which all pregnant women who are below a certain income are eligible for, illegal or not
The illegal immigrants have to pay for their prenatal care (on a sliding scale basis) but their Labor&Delivery and Postpartum stay are covered by emergency Medicaid
After that the child is eligible for full Medicaid and it's home free from there

I once saw the ICE police (immigration) at a hispanic supermarket where I shop rounding up hispanics without identification...
I told one that they were wasting their time...if they wanted to find the majority of them they needed to go to the hospital

USA...Land of the "FREE" and the home of the "LET THE MIDDLE CLASS AMERICANS WORK FOR IT"

IMHO...

Matilda said:

I have no idea at all about US law. All I do know is that several Dominican friends of mine with US tourist visas go to the United States when she is pregnant so that the baby can be born there and be a US citizen. I assume they have to pay for the birth, so it tends to be richer Dominicans, but a US passport for life is worth a lot of money I would have thought.

I also know several Dominicans without cedulas which they cannot get as they do not have birth certificates. In most cases their parents sold their birth certificates to illegal Haitians. No cedula means no proper job, and it appears to be almost impossible to rectify. Not nice to be stateless all of your life.

I just think it is interesting that in order to have a Dominican birth certificate and hence citizenship you have to be here legally but maybe not in the USA or UK. And I would have thought that citizenship of those countries is worth a tad more than Dominican citizenship.

Matilda

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Just as many foreigners now make their home in the DR, via legal means, out of the love for this new place they found to be worth more to them than what was left back at the point of origin. Worth is in the heart of those that seek to feel valued somewhere, somehow. That Dominicans worth their citizenship more than the US or the UK is not the issue, but that the non-Dominicans do is.

Like I said, given the fact that the DR allows a huge amount of people from Haiti to seek pre/birth/post care is the #1 reason it can't just provide citizenship to those that make their trek to the country via any which way they avail themselves of.

I can clearly recall the kind of poverty that existed in the DR 20 years back, and believe you me; it wasn't the kind we see today! We have gotten the poorest of the poor from Haiti and somehow still able to continue to offer a relief valve to a Famine of monumental dimensions next door.

Even when the children may be 4th generation Haitian born to 3rd generation still non-Dominican Haitian parents, the law is there to provide order where none exists...:surprised

SKing said:

This is the problem in the US...
The children then have access to all social services...WIC, Food Stamps, TANF, Medicaid
And yes, they do have their children for free...it is called emergency Medicaid...which all pregnant women who are below a certain income are eligible for, illegal or not
The illegal immigrants have to pay for their prenatal care (on a sliding scale basis) but their Labor&Delivery and Postpartum stay are covered by emergency Medicaid
After that the child is eligible for full Medicaid and it's home free from there

I once saw the ICE police (immigration) at a hispanic supermarket where I shop rounding up hispanics without identification...
I told one that they were wasting their time...if they wanted to find the majority of them they needed to go to the hospital

USA...Land of the "FREE" and the home of the "LET THE MIDDLE CLASS AMERICANS WORK FOR IT"

IMHO...

Click to expand...

Much has changed here in the US my friend...
The hospitals no longer have access to the emergency Medicaid funds for non-emergencies like birth, clinics, etc... Now the same co-pay that is offered to uninsured Americans is also extended to illegals and non-residents alike (read people with visas).

Just so you know: The actual number of Dominicans living illegally in the US due to either over staying their tourist visas/fraudulent documentation to gain entry/illegal border crossing/etc. Is a paltry 5% of the strong Dominican population that call the US home. This data was mined from the records of visa requests and default I-94s that never returned to the INS officials via the ports of entry.

The bulk of illegal border crossers and fraudulent use of forgeries to enter the US main land, are from those daily trips aboard yolas to PR (a main bridge to the final destination of those making the trip to the US).

Just keep in mind that the low-mid classes of the DR are the ones that represent the bulk of expats here in the US, not the mid-upper classes.

Yet for all this, the US doesn't get the lowest and poorest of our society...
Those remain at home, doing their time under the Caribbean sun...

Now, compare the illegal immigration % of the US to that of the DR today and tell me which one is grossly under par to the load, yet is able to support a disproportionate percentage of illegals of the poorest to ever walk the face of the earth this past hundred years and still support it...

No country outside the DR carries the load and burden of over 1 million poor Haitian on their backs... The US allows in a very trickle amount of those that must pass muster to set foot in their soil.

That the DR provides that for a child to be able to demand the Dominican citizenship as a right, he or she must have a Dominican citizen as parent is our law. This law applies equally and without selection to Haitians, French, Americans, British and so on.

To say that Haitian children are denied health care at public hospitals in the DR because they lack Dominican BC is an outright lie! I can tell you personally that no hospital in the DR will dare to do such thing.

That schools deny Haitian children access to education if they lack Dominican BC is another lie! They lack ANY papers to allow the public schools to be able to register the child as required by the Education Dept. in order to get their funds allowance to provide space and services for the children. Since the funds are distributed on a head count of children the lack of proper documentation is the underwriter for embezzlement. That's why parents are requested to provide proof of identity to be able to enroll their kids at public schools. Be them Haitians or Americans.

Did you know that any Haitian or foreigner can enroll into a public school of the DR without having to pay a red cent? Or that they also have access to the free UASD? Stop repeating lies as if they were truths, something they are not.

Tell me when an illegal in the US or UK was able to get FREE education at a state funded college??????? Pleazeeee!

The statelessness that the Haitian children today live by, is the direct result of the policy of Haitian officials of denying the parents the right to inscribe their children as Haitians as their constitution provides. Their constitution states that any child born to a Haitian is Haitian regardless of place of birth.

Our constitution is clear and firm; respect our laws as you want the laws in your country to be respected by any foreigner there.

I was born in Aruba. My parents were legal residents. I was never given a passport because my father never wanted to be a citizen. When my parents returned to DR we (the children) travelled with a piece of paper that the Dominican Consulate issued to us.
When I travel to Aruba they treat my as a tourist. If I want to stay longer I have to go through all the steps that as other tourists.
Now I am a US citizen. My passport says born in Aruba. The years that I was Dominican was erased. I have a hard time getting the new cedula. In DR I am treated as a tourist.
I joke around that if deported I do not have another country to call home.

I'm an American and my ex-girlfriend was Canadian. Our daughter was born in the Dominican in 1997. Both of us were here illegialy at the time. She has an official Dominican Birth Certificate with all the stamps and signatures you could want on it but things might be different now.