Getting title has become a problem

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Hooley

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Dec 7, 2004
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I will try to condense what is a long and frustrating situations.

Hired a lawyer from SD and the contract was signed between myself and everyone on the title (farmer and his lawyer).

My lawyer proved useless and I eventually took my papers from him and paid the taxes in Nagua myself. (They had no problem taking the taxes.) The taxes were paid in about March 2008.

When I went to file the papers in Samana to get my title I was told the wife of the lawyer who was on the title had to sign the contract before they could process it. (Her name is not on the title.)

It is common in Samana for the lawyer to have a percentage of the title. (Farmer has no money so lawyer takes a percentage of his land - in this case 33%.)

If they need the wife of the lawyer to sign than should they not also need the wife of the farmer to sign? And my spouse for that matter.

I smell a rat. (Both lawyers involved should have known if the wife had to sign.)

The date of the contract is April 1 2007 (did I say long and frustrating) and I am also concerned about my position with respect to the deslinda requirement that comes into effect April 2009.

Does what they say make sense and if it does why do they not ask the wife of the farmer to sign.

What happens if the wife of the lawyer refuses to sign?

Can this signature be added as an appendix to the original contract instead of making up a new contract?

If my lawyer did not perform his duty, do I have any recourse? (He of course has been paid)

I loath to get more lawyers involved at this stage and would not be adverse to placing a few peso's in the right hands in order to get the title.


Any suggestions?
 
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Fabio J. Guzman

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Very hard to give an opinion without looking at the documents.

Spouses have to sign all contracts involving property transfers (Art. 1421 of the Civil Code) even though their names do not show up on the title.
 
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cocoleka

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Sep 7, 2007
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Title and Deslindar Question

Hi.
I purchased a property near sanchez last year and was informed that in order to get a Title I first needed to have a proper deslinde.
So i paid an agrimensor (surveyor) to obtain 2 satellite points and submit the application for the deslinde. Only then, I've been told, can we apply for the Title.

Currently we are waiting (about 3 months so far) to hear about the deslinde, which I'm told can take many months due to backlog.

Does all this sound proper or have I been misled? Any thoughts at all? I have a lawyer but...Should I do anything further?
I appreciate your responses.
Scott
 
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kevadair

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Nov 9, 2007
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Missing names on the title.

Fabio J. Guzman said:
Spouses have to sign all contracts involving property transfers (Art. 1421 of the Civil Code) even though their names do not show up on the title.
Click to expand...

Then, what if a couple has property and children together, and the wife dies.

The husband is the only one on the title.

Can the husband sell all of the property, or does half of the property belong to the children, even though they are not on the title?

How could an investor ever know how many people really own a property if only one of their names appears on the title?
 
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TheHun

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May 4, 2008
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cocoleka said:
Hi.
I purchased a property near sanchez last year and was informed that in order to get a Title I first needed to have a proper deslinde.
So i paid an agrimensor (surveyor) to obtain 2 satellite points and submit the application for the deslinde. Only then, I've been told, can we apply for the Title.

Currently we are waiting (about 3 months so far) to hear about the deslinde, which I'm told can take many months due to backlog.

Does all this sound proper or have I been misled? Any thoughts at all? I have a lawyer but...Should I do anything further?
I appreciate your responses.
Scott
Click to expand...

I was told that to register the property with the new system (GPS etc..) can take 7-12 months! Than the title will be issued. It takes long only at the first time - actually there is no second time, when you sell the land it was already registered, so the title can be issued fast to the new owner. According to the new land registry law only registered land can be transfered.

TheHun
 
L

La Mariposa

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Jun 4, 2004
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kevadair said:
Then, what if a couple has property and children together, and the wife dies.

The husband is the only one on the title.

Can the husband sell all of the property, or does half of the property belong to the children, even though they are not on the title?

How could an investor ever know how many people really own a property if only one of their names appears on the title?
Click to expand...

Of course he can since he is the only owner of the property. The children cannot inherit the property since their mother did not own it she only had a right on it in case of divorce or if her husband would have died first.
 
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kevadair

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La Mariposa said:
Of course he can since he is the only owner of the property. The children cannot inherit the property since their mother did not own it she only had a right on it in case of divorce or if her husband would have died first.
Click to expand...

That's not what I have been hearing. Does anyone else have an opinion?

BTW, just curious, are you a lawyer?
 
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FrankysFriends

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Jan 28, 2009
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Children of the owners

This is my question too. How can you know who owns a property if the wife is dead and the two people had children, but the Father of those children doesn't want to share the money of selling with those children that he has?

My friend wants to buy near Sosua, but how do you know who really owns if they had the land when the wife was alive, but now she is dead, and there are those children.

He says he had seen the title and it has only the fathers name, just one name, but I think that father has children with his dead wife, and her name is not on the title, only the fathers name is.

Thank you very much,

Franky
 
E

Eddy

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Jan 1, 2002
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In a nutshell

FrankysFriends said:
This is my question too. How can you know who owns a property if the wife is dead and the two people had children, but the Father of those children doesn't want to share the money of selling with those children that he has?

My friend wants to buy near Sosua, but how do you know who really owns if they had the land when the wife was alive, but now she is dead, and there are those children.

He says he had seen the title and it has only the fathers name, just one name, but I think that father has children with his dead wife, and her name is not on the title, only the fathers name is.

Thank you very much,

Franky
Click to expand...

Your Attorney will sort out the title stuff. In Sosua I do recommend Guzman. They have always come through for me. As for the deslinde, there are very few accredited people to do the work. They are backlogged because of this. Expect to wait 1 year (+-) for everything to get done. properly. The deslinde is the responsability of the seller. If he doesn't have a deslinde he cannot sell. (At least don't buy a property that does not have one).
 
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kevadair

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Nov 9, 2007
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Other opinions Re: Title?

The situation that I am aware of in this regard is near Higuey. I appreciate the answer from La Mariposa on this issue, but I'm still looking for additional opinions.

Do the children of the title holder have a right to half the land if the land was acquired while their parents were together and the wife/mother, who was not on the title is now dead?

Or, can the owner on the title sell the land and choose whether to share the proceeds with his children?

Perhaps this issue is enforced differently in different regions of the DR, but the opinions I have heard on this so far, have been split 50/50.

Thanks,

Kevin
 
H

Hooley

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Dec 7, 2004
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Spouses have to sign all contracts involving property transfers (Art. 1421 of the Civil Code) even though their names do not show up on the title.

So I can assume that both lawyers, in my case, have not meet their legislative duties. They should have ensured that all spouses had signed off?

My lawyer should be acting in my interest and also the lawyer on title should be acting in his clients interest.

The farmer who owns the land and myself have made a deal. We are both happy with the deal.

Now I have a contract of sale that is not signed off by the spouses - what do I do? How can I get title?

This took me many years to decide to buy property in the DR and it was only when I thought I had a compentant lawyer that I decided to invest my life savings.

My lawyer now appears to be totally incompentant since he didn't get the signature of all spouses.

My lawyer is a political man and I would not be hestitate to expose him if necessary.

I just look for an easy life.

Any thoughts?
 
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kevadair

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Nov 9, 2007
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Spouses Signatures

Everything in the DR seems to take much longer than you would ever imagine it would. Still I'd bet, the spouses are probably available and willing to sign. I'd go directly to the farmer's attorney to have him encourage his wife and the farmer's wife to sign. If the women sign then there's no problem. The contract is not legal without the other two signatures, and it is not in the lawyer's best interest to have him party to an illegal contract. I'd imagine it would be best if your wife signed as well.
 
F

Fabio J. Guzman

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Jan 1, 2002
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kevadair said:
Then, what if a couple has property and children together, and the wife dies.

The husband is the only one on the title.

Can the husband sell all of the property, or does half of the property belong to the children, even though they are not on the title?

How could an investor ever know how many people really own a property if only one of their names appears on the title?
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter if the title has the name of one spouse or both spouses, if the property was purchased during marriage without a pre-nuptial agreement, it is and will remain community property. Upon the death of a spouse, his or her heirs will be co-owners with the surviving spouse. The titled spouse will not be able to sell without the heirs.

How can you tell there is a spouse (or heirs) if the title is not in both names. The marital status must be mentioned on the titles. If it says "married", the Registrar won't record a sale unless the other spouse has consented to the sale. If the non-titled spouse is dead, then the surviving spouse and the heirs will have go through a procedure called "determination of heirs".
 
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La Mariposa

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Fabio J. Guzman said:
It doesn't matter if the title has the name of one spouse or both spouses, if the property was purchased during marriage without a pre-nuptial agreement, it is and will remain community property. Upon the death of a spouse, his or her heirs will be co-owners with the surviving spouse. The titled spouse will not be able to sell without the heirs.

How can you tell there is a spouse (or heirs) if the title is not in both names. The marital status must be mentioned on the titles. If it says "married", the Registrar won't record a sale unless the other spouse has consented to the sale. If the non-titled spouse is dead, then the surviving spouse and the heirs will have go through a procedure called "determination of heirs".
Click to expand...

If there was a pre-nuptial agreement (conventional separation as to property), you could joint to the sale contract copy of the pre-nuptial agreement ??
 
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kevadair

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Nov 9, 2007
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Thank you, Lic. Guzman for answering this question. I have written further on this topic under the separate thread: What if the wife dies?

So, if a seller fails to mention that he has surviving offspring of a previous marriage who also hold claim to the property (even though the title makes no mention or reference of this). After the money has been paid to the seller, it is the buyer who is liable to lose property he has paid for. Is that correct?

Are there any recourses against the seller?

Or, the attorney who notarized the sales agreement?

Or, the attorney who generated the title, years after the wife had died, but still left her surviving heirs off of the title?

Or is this really the legal pitfall that it clearly seems to be for international buyers who thought their research was complete until this law pops up?

Finally, could you describe what's involved in a Determining of Inheritance process?

Thanks so much for your legal insight.
 
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Fabio J. Guzman

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kevadair, the lawyer acting on your behalf should have caught the problems in the due diligence. The fact is, however, that many purchasers do not hire a lawyer to do the due diligence because it is "expensive." Worse still, many lawyers and notaries who get paid for doing it, just don't bother. If the latter is the case, you have a claim against the seller and the lawyer.

A determination of heirs involves a petition to the Land Court requesting the cancellation of the old title and the issuance of a new one in the name of the heirs. Among the documents required are: death certificate of the deceased, marriage certificate, birth certificates of the heirs (and/or certified copy of the will), and proof of payment of inheritance taxes (receipt from the Internal Revenue office).
 
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