Condo liability

[drdirectional]

Hello Forum
I have a question as to what legal liabilities a condominium association has to its owners and guests. Specifically, what, if any, liability does the condo have to pay for damages to vehicles or injuries to people in the common areas of the complex? For example coconuts or roof tiles falling onto cars or someones head, theft, drownings in the pool, etc... Does posting signs of "not responsible" make a difference?
I would hate to see the Dominican turn into another US or Europe where people can sue for anything but I see that this may become an issue as most owners in the condos in our area are foreigners.
Thanks

 

[Ken]

Hello Forum
I have a question as to what legal liabilities a condominium association has to its owners and guests. Specifically, what, if any, liability does the condo have to pay for damages to vehicles or injuries to people in the common areas of the complex? For example coconuts or roof tiles falling onto cars or someones head, theft, drownings in the pool, etc... Does posting signs of "not responsible" make a difference?
I would hate to see the Dominican turn into another US or Europe where people can sue for anything but I see that this may become an issue as most owners in the condos in our area are foreigners.
Thanks

Does posting a sign relieve you of responsibility where you come from?

Doesn't your condo have liability insurance. Where I live, our insurance includes a very substantial amount for the condo and a lesser, but still substantial, amount for each owner which covers us not only if something happens in our apartment or on the property, but also when we are off the property. Everything but auto liability.

If your condo doesn't have liability insurance, it is at risk.

 

[drdirectional]

Ken, yes in fact posting signs relieve a lot of responsibility in civilized countries. i.e.: no lifeguard on duty swim at own risk, not responsible for lost or damaged property, caution slippery when wet, my favorite are cigarette packs in canada, especially the one with the broken cigarette "smoking can cause impotency". Ever watch a prescription drug commercial from the US? It has become a necessity to put them up so that you can say you took the necessary precautions to warn stupid people about obvious hazards. Anyway, we don't want to put a sign on every free space in the complex to remind people that the tiles around the pool maybe slippery. Those of us who live in the DR live in a country with less rules and regulations and we like it that way!

As for liability insurance, we have one quote which was around $60,000/yr which is more then our entire complex income in the year. This is not a viable option. I would really like to know where your complex gets its liability insurance and how much? Now that would would be helpful.
My question still remains, are there laws in the Dominican Republic that relate to Condo liabilities? What are the legal steps we have to take? I never heard of a civil court in the Dominican is there one?

 

[Hernandez]

What are the legal steps we have to take?

What happened exactly? Injuries due to falling coconut?

In fact, Dominicans have no liabilities because "NO ES MI CULPA". Of course, foreigners have liabilities if Dominican is injured.

 

[the gorgon]

Ken, yes in fact posting signs relieve a lot of responsibility in civilized countries. i.e.: no lifeguard on duty swim at own risk, not responsible for lost or damaged property, caution slippery when wet, my favorite are cigarette packs in canada, especially the one with the broken cigarette "smoking can cause impotency". Ever watch a prescription drug commercial from the US? It has become a necessity to put them up so that you can say you took the necessary precautions to warn stupid people about obvious hazards. Anyway, we don't want to put a sign on every free space in the complex to remind people that the tiles around the pool maybe slippery. Those of us who live in the DR live in a country with less rules and regulations and we like it that way!

As for liability insurance, we have one quote which was around $60,000/yr which is more then our entire complex income in the year. This is not a viable option. I would really like to know where your complex gets its liability insurance and how much? Now that would would be helpful.
My question still remains, are there laws in the Dominican Republic that relate to Condo liabilities? What are the legal steps we have to take? I never heard of a civil court in the Dominican is there one?

2.4 million pesos? you can not be serious...

 

[the gorgon]

the problem you have is that some fruitcake is going to break his ass on your property, and his lawyer is going to argue before a court that your liability still stands, because his client cannot read.

 

[Ken]

Ken, yes in fact posting signs relieve a lot of responsibility in civilized countries. i.e.: no lifeguard on duty swim at own risk, not responsible for lost or damaged property, caution slippery when wet, my favorite are cigarette packs in canada, especially the one with the broken cigarette "smoking can cause impotency". Ever watch a prescription drug commercial from the US? It has become a necessity to put them up so that you can say you took the necessary precautions to warn stupid people about obvious hazards. Anyway, we don't want to put a sign on every free space in the complex to remind people that the tiles around the pool maybe slippery. Those of us who live in the DR live in a country with less rules and regulations and we like it that way!

As for liability insurance, we have one quote which was around $60,000/yr which is more then our entire complex income in the year. This is not a viable option. I would really like to know where your complex gets its liability insurance and how much? Now that would would be helpful.
My question still remains, are there laws in the Dominican Republic that relate to Condo liabilities? What are the legal steps we have to take? I never heard of a civil court in the Dominican is there one?

I'm in the US right now. Angie Wolff and EPS is our agent. It is with a company affiliated with Banco Popular. Talk to Angie.

Our insurance covers everything at replacement value, including the apartments (not furniture) and includes the liability. Owners pay by assessment.

 

[Ken]

My question still remains, are there laws in the Dominican Republic that relate to Condo liabilities? What are the legal steps we have to take? I never heard of a civil court in the Dominican is there one?

You should contact a lawyer, a reputable lawyer. The lawyer who used to answer questions in the legal section retired and rarely does these days.

 

[Mack]

The cost of liability insurance will vary depending on what coverage is required, size of your complex, etc. Our liability insurance covers just about everything including earthquake. It does not cover the individual units for contents.
We are covered by Seguros Universal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia our cost is about $420.00 USD per unit per year.
Mack.

 

[drdirectional]

Thanks for the tips, our complex has 60 units so at $420 a unit per year is still a lot of money, we would have to raise the HOA fees or like Ken, pay by yearly assessment. Then there is the question as to wether the insurance company, especially a dominican one, will ever pay. I was hoping to hear from Guzman Ariza on here but as Ken also mentioned he is retired. I guess we go speak with an attorney and find out our best options. Thanks again.

 

[Ken]

The cost of liability insurance will vary depending on what coverage is required, size of your complex, etc. Our liability insurance covers just about everything including earthquake. It does not cover the individual units for contents.
We are covered by Seguros Universal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia our cost is about $420.00 USD per unit per year.
Mack.

We are also covered by Seguros Universal. Angie Wolff at EPS in Sosua is the agent.

The insurance is not a liability policy. It is a general insurance that includes all the insurance the complex needs in case of fire, hurricane, riots, etc.,etc. It also includes insurance on each apartment to restore the apartment in the event of fire, etc. There are options offered. In our case we insure in dollars, which means we pay in dollars and would be paid in dollars. Also, you have an option in terms of how much you want to cover your apartment for. Liability both for the condominium and each owner is part of this package

Additionally, we are able to pay for the insurance in 12 monthly installments which helps with the amount each owner must be assessed each month.

Our owners are very pleased with the insurance and feel much more comfortable in the Dominican Republic knowing they have personal liability protection that covers them on and off the property for everything except automobile liability. They also like the fact that they have insurance on their apartment.

Furniture and other furnishings are not covered, but owners have the option of getting supplemental coverage that does and this is tied to the insurance in the main policy for their apartment.

We have considered the insurance from various companies and chose this because it offers the best coverage for the money and gives us coverage in dollars rather than pesos.

I suggest you talk with Angie.

 

[Fabio J. Guzman]

You should contact a lawyer, a reputable lawyer. The lawyer who used to answer questions in the legal section retired and rarely does these days.

Ken, although I'm not seeing clients anymore, I'm still the managing partner of my firm (Guzm?n Ariza). My job is to ensure that quality standards are met and to help with the strategy in important cases. We have some 30 other lawyers at the firm who can take care of our clients' needs directly.

As for this forum, I still look at it every week (I've done it since 1998) and try to respond to most questions that have not been previously answered by knowledgeable expats like yourself.

 

[Mack]

Ken, although I'm not seeing clients anymore, I'm still the managing partner of my firm (Guzm?n Ariza). My job is to ensure that quality standards are met and to help with the strategy in important cases. We have some 30 other lawyers at the firm who can take care of our clients' needs directly.

As for this forum, I still look at it every week (I've done it since 1998) and try to respond to most questions that have not been previously answered by knowledgeable expats like yourself.

Thanks for your response. It's good to know you're still watching over us.
Mack.

 

[Castellamonte]

Double down on Angie Wolf. She does my insurance for my properties as well. Very good agent with excellent insurance offerings.

 

[drdirectional]

Ken, although I'm not seeing clients anymore, I'm still the managing partner of my firm (Guzm?n Ariza). My job is to ensure that quality standards are met and to help with the strategy in important cases. We have some 30 other lawyers at the firm who can take care of our clients' needs directly.

As for this forum, I still look at it every week (I've done it since 1998) and try to respond to most questions that have not been previously answered by knowledgeable expats like yourself.

Thank you for your volunteer work on this forum, I have found all of your information invaluable. Im still wandering however about the liabilities claims in the DR. Do they carry any weight? Is there preventative legal steps we should be taking to avoid them?

The insurance thing I understand, and we will look for a number of more quotes including that of Angie Wolf, but we have a pending situation that we are unsure of how to move on. The victim is requesting a very small amount of money (for property damage) but we don't want to set a precedent for paying out. On the other hand, if we dont pay out, we dont want to end up paying even more on a court decision not to mention all the legal fees. Im absolutely certain that had we had insurance in the first place the deductable would have been more then the claim.

 

[Castellamonte]

I suspect that legally you may be protected by any well-lit, prominently posted signage just about as well as you will in the US. This does not mean you are protected from a civil suit, however. Anyone can sue for anything, so you have to ask yourself a business question rather than a legal one: "Is this worth it??"

Small damage I would defend against, large damage I would defend against, it's that "stuff in the middle" where you need to go to court to defend yourself yet you don't really know if you'll win or lose plus you'll have the additional money at risk.

 

[Fabio J. Guzman]

Regarding the coconut question, the condo is responsible for any damage caused by a "thing" (be it a coconut or anything else) under its control if the "thing" has caused harm to a third party.

Liability insurance is cheap, but insurers usually will only cover it if you have a general policy (fire, etc.).

A sign stating that the condo is not responsible for harm done by a coconut (or in the pool, etc.) is not always enough to exempt it from liability in case of an accident.