Is the DR really developing

[aarhus]

I was encouraged to post about this. When you travel in the DR you see a lot of extreme poverty. Recently I walked around the colonial zone in Santo Domingo and it looks to me as if there was never any renovations. I traveled with bus from Santo Domingo to Samana and all I saw was poverty. Compared to 15 years ago only differences is some new infrastructure. Some posters seem to claim it is a growing developing economy. Is it really?

I wish the news and debate on here could be more nuanced. Of course there are improvements. But in some areas it seems there are none. It doesn’t mean it’s not recommended to live or invest here. I did it myself.

 

[NanSanPedro]

I've only been here 5 years but I don't agree. Everywhere I go in middle class evironments are completely crowded. I mainly go in San Isidro and Alma Rosa, but what I see is a vibrant middle class in these areas. Sure it's a small sample size, but that's my experience.

Another poster called Zona Colonial a dump. To me it's far from it. The parks around El Conde and Arzobispo Meriño are nice. The SD Malecon is nice and filled with Domicanos/as when I go.

I went back to Puerta Plata a few weeks ago. While the Malecon wasn't too crowded Jumbo and the restaurants were. Two pizza places were packed.

So while it's difficult for me to measure progress, it's evident that there are large pockets of middle class wealth here.

 

[william webster]

Yes, and that's the difference

You can find some awfully poor/underserviced areas & population in any country..... yes, perhaps more here than other places, but that doesn't negate the progress and growth of a middle class.
I doubt such a thing existed before.......... just rich & poor

Progress.... maybe not fast enough for some, but progress nonetheless

 

[chico bill]

Yes, and that's the difference

You can find some awfully poor/underserviced areas & population in any country..... yes, perhaps more here than other places, but that doesn't negate the progress and growth of a middle class.
I doubt such a thing existed before.......... just rich & poor

Progress.... maybe not fast enough for some, but progress nonetheless

Progress will hit a wall without delivered water

 

[NanSanPedro]

Progress will hit a wall without delivered water

And that is exactly what prohibits me from considering ever moving to PP.

 

[arete92]

in what context?

Is the DR really developing​

housing projects - that is a big yes
tourism - the data says yes although I think that could be greatly affected in the future with the beach erosion and the trash problem that's super bad.

now let's talk about infrastructure; there are quite a few components here how I am defining it is the following ( but there is way more )

1. government services
2. roads & accessibility
3. electricity
4. Internet
5. Medical aid
6. cellphone coverage
7. agriculture
8. Education
9. Business
10. Health services

1. No - I do not need to explain this, the only time I ever see any hint of progress that's not talking is during or right after elections, this won't change until for decades, I derive that conclusion by looking at the services and family structure of the 7-year-olds and how they're educated and treated, some families really try and please keep doing that cause this island needs bright young boy and girls to help them.

2. I think so honestly, looking around I do see more effort, accessibility is poor though for disabled people and sidewalk/pedestrians that is partly on the moto drivers who drive on the sidewalk and other heavy machines that slowly damage the material until it cracks. This country is not made for walking.

3. There has been projects for wind/solar but a lot of talk and I feel the projects are poorly managed and poorly thought out, there is so much corruption around energy here and this mentality of "good enough at 30%" that it's very hard to remain optimistic. Electricity has progressed but honestly I dream of being energy independent.

4. Yes - Starlink, it's external but still progress on how we measure accessibility.

5. Honestly no, I dont have much confidence in doctors here Im sorry if there is a doctor reading this but I just dont trust them, I know a few and the conversations that take place at the dinner table between us just makes me laugh and cry at the same time, credentials is a real issue your family doctor may be a plastic surgeon with a different name also.

6. I don't know, I don't use it much I use wifi calling. I notice the service a bit better but lots of dead spots

7. This part I am really disappointed in..Gardens in north America are a small social flex in a good way that people encourage you to do, here people will say you're poor if you grow your own food ( Dominicans told me ) community farming, vertical farming, green spaces, I have never seen this and it doesnt feel innovative in anyway here. I have seen a few cool farming communities "el gallos" behind mt isabelle de torre is an ecolodge that makes all their meals fresh, its awesome and relaxing and has amazing service.

8. I learned here education doesn't just mean people who went to school - it's a cultural collection of knowledge and open-mindedness to new ideas that may challenge your own belief systems, it's also the current existing services and the confidence you have in a community or business in a whole ( can the person do what they say they can ? ) and I really hate to be pessimistic here but over the last year I had to deal with so many different services it's not even funny, the amount of babysitting you need to do is exhausting cause if you don't, your new parts, money is gone. You have to use lawyers for anything and everything to protect yourself there is 0% trust

9. There has been some cool businesses mostly concentrated in Ex-pat communities by ex pats that really are unique and feel a bit more solid in terms of services and that, I would love to see more services for digital nomads... I go to Mcdonald's for the wifi I would gladly pay 4,000 peso a month for a office spot to socialize with others etc if they were available. on a separate though see the corporate tax here as debilitating but all my friends have good accountants so it becomes less of an issue I suppose

10. There are some good gyms here, they're about the same price sometimes more than back home - I do not see most trainers in the gym as knowledgeable as someone who has been working out for 15 years. I dont think there is any college program etc. martial art instructors normally dont have belts or ever worked with Krus, I think farang gym being the exception which is a foreigner gym.

Overall the biggest growth retarder here I see is scalability issues - road systems were poorly managed and thought out , highways major arteries to support the 11 million people here with a population growth trend that's quite vertical, how are these going to play out? the country is covered in mountains and projects take a very long time to complete i.e ( Cangrejo Bridge ) I don't see new highways being built, coupled with infrastructure and corruption issues.

I didn't sugar coat it those are my opinions.

 

[Buffness]

Is the DR really developing ?​

This is the answer from AI , Artificial intelligence, where I spend most of my time these days :

" Here are a few key points about the economic development of the Dominican Republic:

- The Dominican Republic has experienced steady economic growth over the past couple of decades. Its GDP growth averaged around 5-6% per year from 2000-2019, making it one of the fastest growing economies in Latin America.

- The economy has shifted away from agriculture and toward services and manufacturing. Tourism in particular has boomed - the Dominican Republic is now the most visited country in the Caribbean. Other major industries include mining, textiles, and telecommunications.

- Significant infrastructure development has occurred, especially in transportation. New highways, airports, and seaports have been built. Access to electricity has also improved.

- The poverty rate has fallen substantially, from around 50% in 2000 to under 30% today, thanks to job growth and social spending programs. However, inequality remains high.

- The Dominican Republic graduated to upper middle income status in 2008 and is now considered a middle income developing country. Its GDP per capita is around $8,000.

- Challenges remain, including income inequality, unemployment, corruption, and environmental threats like deforestation. But overall, the country has made impressive economic strides in recent decades. With continued prudent policies and reforms, the growth trajectory appears positive.

So in summary, while it still faces major challenges, the evidence suggests the Dominican Republic has experienced significant development progress and its economic prospects look reasonably bright for a developing country. It is considered one of the stronger economies in Latin America and the Caribbean. "

There it is 🖕

 

[El Hijo de Manolo]

Is the DR really developing ?​

This is the answer from AI , Artificial intelligence, where I spend most of my time these days :

" Here are a few key points about the economic development of the Dominican Republic:

- The Dominican Republic has experienced steady economic growth over the past couple of decades. Its GDP growth averaged around 5-6% per year from 2000-2019, making it one of the fastest growing economies in Latin America.

- The economy has shifted away from agriculture and toward services and manufacturing. Tourism in particular has boomed - the Dominican Republic is now the most visited country in the Caribbean. Other major industries include mining, textiles, and telecommunications.

- Significant infrastructure development has occurred, especially in transportation. New highways, airports, and seaports have been built. Access to electricity has also improved.

- The poverty rate has fallen substantially, from around 50% in 2000 to under 30% today, thanks to job growth and social spending programs. However, inequality remains high.

- The Dominican Republic graduated to upper middle income status in 2008 and is now considered a middle income developing country. Its GDP per capita is around $8,000.

- Challenges remain, including income inequality, unemployment, corruption, and environmental threats like deforestation. But overall, the country has made impressive economic strides in recent decades. With continued prudent policies and reforms, the growth trajectory appears positive.

So in summary, while it still faces major challenges, the evidence suggests the Dominican Republic has experienced significant development progress and its economic prospects look reasonably bright for a developing country. It is considered one of the stronger economies in Latin America and the Caribbean. "

There it is 🖕

If Chat GPT says it, it must be true 😂

 

[Fulano2]

Developing has different aspects.
Economy wise I think it has developed, so with infra.

The question is, has the people developed?
I dont think so.
There is a youth that listens rap and all the other noise they call music the whole day, at full volume, whose main purpose is money, fast with little effort.
Yeepeta, mujeres y bebida.

Yes I am generalising but thats what you see.

 

[Seamonkey]

The biggest positive change that I've seen here in the past 14 years is the internet speed. Beyond that the electricity (in Sosua) is worse, street water is worse and Sosua looks like it got hit by a bomb. Traffic in SD is by far worse but has much more shopping and variety of restaurants. There has been no advancement as far as people being educated on recycling and garbage. My opinions.

 

[william webster]

Traffic is hard to use as a lack of progress

One could argue - the more progress, the more cars, the more traffic

 

[johne]

One can answer the question posed in OP by looking at yesterday's news from Ecquador . If then you don't believe we here in the DR are not developing then think about IF we DON'T continue to fight against crime, drugs and corruption little else will matter.

 

[bob saunders]

Developing has different aspects.
Economy wise I think it has developed, so with infra.

The question is, has the people developed?
I dont think so.
There is a youth that listens rap and all the other noise they call music the whole day, at full volume, whose main purpose is money, fast with little effort.
Yeepeta, mujeres y bebida.

Yes I am generalising but thats what you see.

Adaption of a sub-culture from the USA, unfortunately. Materially there are more people better off, and there are more and better health facilities than there were 20 years ago. Way more cars on the roads, and no improvement in driving manners. A lot more drugs use and open selling on the streets.

 

[Fulano2]

I got it Bob. Thanks.

 

[chico bill]

Adaption of a sub-culture from the USA, unfortunately. Materially there are more people better off, and there are more and better health facilities than there were 20 years ago. Way more cars on the roads, and no improvement in driving manners. A lot more drugs use and open selling on the streets.

Yes Dominican men mostly are, for the most part, somewhat lazy.
Haitians do all the hot construction work, Dominicans look for ways to make an less strenuous quick buck.
I had conversations with two of the better Dominican owned auto mechanics in Puerto Plata (one a general mechanic the other a transmission shop owner).
I asked them about the quality of their employees and they both said (I'm paraphrasing) : Dominicans don't look to build a future, they won't invest in tools, are hard to train, don't care about quality and, for the most part, they are glued to their phones chatting and in the morning thinking about lunch and afternoon about having beer at the end of the work shift.

But what is funny is Dominicans are way harder workers than Puerto Ricans, in my opinion, the laziest I have seen in the entire world.

 

[arete92]

Is the DR really developing ?​

This is the answer from AI , Artificial intelligence, where I spend most of my time these days :

" Here are a few key points about the economic development of the Dominican Republic:

- The Dominican Republic has experienced steady economic growth over the past couple of decades. Its GDP growth averaged around 5-6% per year from 2000-2019, making it one of the fastest growing economies in Latin America.

- The economy has shifted away from agriculture and toward services and manufacturing. Tourism in particular has boomed - the Dominican Republic is now the most visited country in the Caribbean. Other major industries include mining, textiles, and telecommunications.

- Significant infrastructure development has occurred, especially in transportation. New highways, airports, and seaports have been built. Access to electricity has also improved.

- The poverty rate has fallen substantially, from around 50% in 2000 to under 30% today, thanks to job growth and social spending programs. However, inequality remains high.

- The Dominican Republic graduated to upper middle income status in 2008 and is now considered a middle income developing country. Its GDP per capita is around $8,000.

- Challenges remain, including income inequality, unemployment, corruption, and environmental threats like deforestation. But overall, the country has made impressive economic strides in recent decades. With continued prudent policies and reforms, the growth trajectory appears positive.

So in summary, while it still faces major challenges, the evidence suggests the Dominican Republic has experienced significant development progress and its economic prospects look reasonably bright for a developing country. It is considered one of the stronger economies in Latin America and the Caribbean. "

There it is 🖕

I agree with chatbot with those assertations but also at the same, where is it collecting its data from, and which group or entity published that information? I remain carefully skeptical for stats derived by chatbot where corruption is rampant, if they are domestic publications and not external they will fudge the data where it makes them look bad ( corruption, poverty, sector resource allocation).

 

[Buffness]

I agree with chatbot with those assertations but also at the same, where is it collecting its data from, and which group or entity published that information? I remain carefully skeptical for stats derived by chatbot where corruption is rampant, if they are domestic publications and not external they will fudge the data where it makes them look bad ( corruption, poverty, sector resource allocation).

Correct 🖕.

By the way , nobody said the answer was from “ChatGPT” or that it’s meant to be “true”.

It’s just a computer generated response to a question from an AI tool currently under development . Make of the answer what you will . Nobody cares. You would be foolish to assume a computer generated answer would be your source of truth without doing the research yourself .

Find your own truth . Live in your own truth . Good luck✌️

Back to the topic …yes , DR is developing IMO . Someone once wrote : “Progress is not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be.” … DR is developing .

 

[XQT]

Correct 🖕.

By the way , nobody said the answer was from “ChatGPT” or that it’s meant to be “true”.

It’s just a computer generated response to a question from an AI tool currently under development . Make of the answer what you will . Nobody cares. You would be foolish to assume a computer generated answer would be your source of truth without doing the research yourself .

Find your own truth . Live in your own truth . Good luck✌️

Back to the topic …yes , DR is developing IMO . Someone once wrote : “Progress is not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be.” … DR is developing .

Not bad for a buff person 😀

The AI data does seem to hit major points of reality,

- Significant infrastructure development has occurred, especially in transportation. New highways, airports, and seaports have been built. Access to electricity has also improved.

- The poverty rate has fallen substantially, from around 50% in 2000 to under 30% today, thanks to job growth and social spending programs. However, inequality remains high.

- The Dominican Republic graduated to upper middle income status in 2008 and is now considered a middle income developing country. Its GDP per capita is around $8,000.

- Challenges remain, including income inequality, unemployment, corruption, and environmental threats like deforestation. But overall, the country has made impressive economic strides in recent decades. With continued prudent policies and reforms, the growth trajectory appears positive.

So in summary, while it still faces major challenges, the evidence suggests the Dominican Republic has experienced significant development progress and its economic prospects look reasonably bright for a developing country. It is considered one of the stronger economies in Latin America and the Caribbean. "

 

[M4kintosh]

Developing has different aspects.
Economy wise I think it has developed, so with infra.

The question is, has the people developed?
I dont think so.
There is a youth that listens rap and all the other noise they call music the whole day, at full volume, whose main purpose is money, fast with little effort.
Yeepeta, mujeres y bebida.

Yes I am generalising but thats what you see.

Not all youth think in that way. It's a one-sided aspect. As you mentioned, it has become a mainstream the sub-culture and the illusion of progress on those 3 aspects from both bad and high income neighborhoods.

Flipping the coin you'll notice that a good bunch of youngsters in the DR doesn't rely on that specific pursuit of happiness to be successful or growth in this country. @NALs has showcased here in plenty of posts lots of examples of young Dominicans making the difference without being in a teteo all day.

 

[Buffness]

Whatever “Not bad for a buff person” may mean 🤔

If some , or most , people on DR1 do not think DR is developing …that’s fine …but that is not what we teach our kids who may or may not choose to be part of DR’s future development .

We teach them that there will be people ….yes , usually foreigners … yes , I am a foreigner too….who will always see any negative thing they what they want to see about the DR. Everything that irritates them about DR says more about them . Anyone interested in DR’s development would be wise to ignore those views …in fact they would do better not to engage with those people online or in person .

The good thing is that the people who are really focused on trying to contribute to DR’s development know better than to listen people who choose to see them as lazy, corrupt etc . I see and work with these good people everyday . If “lazy and drunk “is all you see in the DR , that’s on you . Nobody cares.

I need to quit DR1 for a while …I’ve been reading the same negative comments about DR …for 14 years …same posters. I may be of a younger generation than most here on DR1 …but what started, for us , as a great source of local information about the DR has turned out to be where a lousy generation that believes the way it was for them is the way it’s got to be …comes to vent .

Time for a pause .⏸️✌️Later . Perhaps.