Security guards for homes

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Lesley

Guest
It's been recomended to me that I get a security guard for my home when I move to Santo Domingo. I'm not sure which area I'll be in yet, but it will be a middle to upper class neighborhood with rent about $2800US. Please tell me if it's necessary to have a guard at my home. Is there that much danger to foreignors in Santo Domingo? Is it safe to walk in the neighborhoods by yourself (or with kids) during the day? If there is danger is it mostly robbery or more serious crimes? Please let me know as much information as you can as I have some relatives who claim I won't be able to leave the house by myself.

By the way, I did check the archive section and could not find any messages that answered my questions. Thanks.
 
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Tom F.

Guest
When it comes to security measures, it is better to be safe than sorry. If you are staying in a home that rents for that much money, a night watchyman would be a good idea. Look and see what your neighbors are doing. If you like dogs, one that barks at strangers would also be an idea. As far as walking the streets during the day time, it depends. I always felt safe, but have been the victim of stolen radios in parked cars during the middle of the day when I left the vehicle alone for less than 20 minutes. Once in Santiago and once in Santo Domingo. I have known of women who had their purses grabbed from them and/or jewerly being taken right off their necks. You will find that few people walk in the Capital, especially those with means. If someone sees this happening, you will find them to be very helpful afterwards and almost embarrassed that this happened to you in their country. I was also a victim of a in home robbery which left me very injured. All my Dominican friends warned me that living alone in a country home was not a good idea. I had many offers to loan me a gun before it happened. As a foreigner, who might be considered an easy target so like a mentioned earlier, when in Rome.
 
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Keith R

Guest
Lesley,

I lived for four years (11/95-11/99) in the middle class portion of a well-known "middle to upper class neighborhood" in Santo Domingo, and we never needed a security guard. We were robbed once, but it was clearly an "inside job," something a guard would not have helped against. [One consideration for you: Dominicans frequently say that robbers are tipped off about best times and where to find the goods by house guards!] There were houses in our neighborhood (but not near us) that had guards, but they were all well-known politicians, diplomats or the very rich, all with houses 2-5 times bigger than ours, and so clearly needed one. The rent you cite is actually very high by Santo Domingo standards, so perhaps your house is correspondingly huge and thus would warrant special protection. If by chance you are renting a condo in one of the many luxury "towers" that have sprung up in Santo Domingo in recent years, I do not think your own guard is necessary -- these towers all have their own security.

I would suggest waiting until you arrive and check out the situation first. Make some inquiries of the neighbors, see what others are doing. If your home does not appear so lavish from the street, if you have the privacy of high walls, and if you exercise the type of caution that you would in any large East Coast US city (most importantly, don't flaunt and don't discuss -- with ANYBODY -- what you do and don't have at home), then a guard is not necessary. A large dog might be a good idea, and certainly new locks on the main doors (no telling how many maids had a copy of the key before you moved in!).

As for walking down the street, I did it daily for four years without problem, and there is no way anyone would mistake me for a Dominican born-and-raised. My kids and I went to Mirador Sur park frequently throughout the week. And several times I walked 2-3 miles alone in the city. But then, I was wearing simple clothing, no jewelry, always act like I know where I'm headed (even when I don't), speak fluent Spanish stuck to neighborhoods I know not to be high risk. Just as in any big city anywhere in the world (at least all the ones I know, and they are many), if you are "advertising" yourself as a worthwhile target, a mugger will pick you over a less obvious target.

I would suggest spending your first couple of weeks having various folks take you to different parts of the city you'll probably be frequenting in your daily life, and give you a chance to scope out which ones are riskier than others.

People will also tell you to put an alarm on your motor vehicle. Everyone seems to have one. But in truth I didn't use mine for the last 3 years of my stay in SD and my car was never bothered. For that matter, nor were any of the cars of my friends and family. I did use a Club, but that only deters those wishing to steal the whole vehicle. If you drive a Mercedes or BMW or Lexxus, okay, then get an alarm. But if it's a Honda or Toyota (wiser choices in light of the cost of fuel in the DR), then don't worry about it.

Please take all the dire warnings you'll hear with a grain of salt. I too heard them all from my Dominican family and friends before we moved there, and most of them turned out to be very inflated. Take sensible precautions, but otherwise please relax a bit. Santo Domingo is hardly the security risk that New York City (I lived there for 3 years too) or Rio or Sao Paulo are (I visit them often),and in fact is by comparison quite safe. Many Dominicans living there think that it's not because crime is much worse than before, when it was minimal. It's all relative, isn't it?

Hope this helps.
Regards,
Keith
 
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tony

Guest
I think your nuts to think that the capital - Santo Domingo - is any safer than New York City...not true. Day time walking is okay and relatively safe. However I would not walk alone at night - certainly with a friend would be more secure. Santo Domingo has a crime problem, but I feel alot safer walking the streets of New York than Santo Domingo anytime. Best of Luck
 
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Tom F.

Guest
Tony, I agree. NY gets a bad rep on this board. It is actually an exiting place to live except for parking and traffic. You don't see everyone with bars on their windows and overnight security all over the place. I was a lot worse in Honduras when I visited there. It comes down to desparate situations within a paternalistic society.
 
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Keith R

Guest
Re: With all due respect, you're wrong

Tony,

I'm not nuts, I'm not inventing things and I'm not just talking from the point-of-view of an occassional visitor (which you've already admited that you are). I lived in NYC for 3 yrs, Santo Domingo for 4 yrs. I have relatives that live in the poorer sections of both cities whom I visit very frequently, so I'm not just speaking of the so-called "nice" neighborhoods in both either. I'm speaking from first-hand, extensive experience. I'm not claiming that SD does not have crime, and I agree that SD is not as safe today as it was when I first visited it in 1986. Even so, it is still, overall, far safer than NYC.
Regards,
Keith
 
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Natasha

Guest
Tom, I don't really know anout that. Those who can afford it, choose to live in sucured places, even with overnight security attendants, not only in NYC but all over. It is rare here in Arlington, VA to see apartment/condo buildings without security and/or overnight attendants. And, I have yet to see a home without an alarm system around here. Because here you can generally depend on an alarm system (no need to worry about electricity failure), there is no need for bars on windows.

Regards,
Natasha
 
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Keith R

Guest
Natasha,

I haven't lived in Arlington since 1987, so I can't speak about it, but over here next door in Alexandria, VA, you see numerous houses without alarms (most of my neighborhood is that way, in fact). And people can accidentally leave their car unlocked overnight in the driveway and expect to find it there in the morning (take it from someone who knows firsthand!). In my section we do, however, have a citizens' volunteer Neighborhood Watch that has two (of our own) cars patrol the neighborhood for four hours on Friday and Saturday evenings, but in all the years I have done it, there has been nothing exciting -- kids vandalized the elementary school once 10 years ago, and a car tire slashing last year....

And of course, as I know that you know well but perhaps not all DR1 board readers will realize, the need for bars on windows in the DR goes beyond the fact one cannot rely on an alarm system when electricity supply is so erratic. It has much to do with the fact that most Dominicans keep their house open to outside air -- to the breezes. You cannot keep all your windows and doors open all day and night without bars to ensure that someone doesn't mistake it for an invitation to rob the home!
Un abrazo,
Keith
 
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Natasha

Guest
EXACTLY Keith! Do you think I would have been believed here on this board if I had also mentioned the fact that most Dominicans leave their doors windows opened to the breezes to cool their homes? Perhaps not! :)

Also, yes, I am sure there are numerous homes here in Arlington without alarms, but it seems like everyone has one...just my observation, specially in North Arlington.

Un abrazo,
Natasha
 
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Keith R

Guest
Natasha,

Coming from you, they probably would have believed it -- certainly they SHOULD believe it -- because you've established your credibility here over the years. I think it's probably safe to say that even the DR1 board posters that don't always agree with you on some subjects nonetheless all respect you and know that you don't speak rashly, off-the-cuff.

Dominicans keep their windows and doors open for more than just cooling. It's also to constantly "air out" the house. My wife, una dominicana, always complained that the trouble with living in NY or VA was that we had to spend so much of the year with the house "closed up," so that the inside air was "stale" and anyone with good olafactories (as she certainly has) could tell you the composition of last night's dinner when they enter a home by the smells still hanging in the air. Most Dominicans do not need to install an exhaust fan in their kitchens as we do in the States -- the breezes sweeping through the kitchen all day does a better job. I must say, though, I don't mind the smell of a Sancocho or tostones cooking! :)
Un abrazo,
Keith
 
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Jim Hinsch

Guest
The bars on the windows are part of the culture whereby each person is responsible for providing their own security, as opposed to the system in most parts of the USA, where police are heavily funded and constantly patrol the neighborhoods to provide safety. This dates back to the Napoleanic system, where the police are there to protect the people in power.

I don't think bars on windows has anything to do with keeping the doors and windows open for air flow. The bars are for when they aren't home, or are sleeping, making it harder to break in. A closed window will not keep a robber out much more than an open window will, because most Dominican windows don't open in such a way that a person can climb in. They are more like louvers. Bars are what keeps robbers out, whether the windows are open or closed.

"You cannot keep all your windows and doors open all day and night without bars to ensure that someone doesn't mistake it for an invitation to rob the home! "

I don't get that statement. Lack of bars is an invitation for a robbery? All across america people sleep with their windows open. That's why all our windows have screens, so they can leave them open but the bugs won't get in. The only thing reason people in the USA might keep their windows shut is for temperature and dust control. Most Dominican homes don't have either (no temperature control system, no micro-filter ventilation system), while most American homes have both a heating/cooling system and a filtered ventilation system.
 
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Keith R

Guest
>>I don't think bars on windows has anything to do with keeping the doors and windows open for air flow.<<

Spoken like someone who has not actually lived in the DR. Yes, bars are also for security, but you're quite wrong, they do have much to do with air flow. Ask your Dominican friends next time you're down there. Most still don't have air conditioning -- the air flow is needed and much desired.

By the way, Jim, those "louvers" as you call them can be easily removed by a skilled burgler WHEN THEY ARE IN OPEN POSITION (it happened to my mother-in-law's house), so the bars are indeed necessary even when you're at home and not sleeping but you want air to flow through your house.

>>"You cannot keep all your windows and doors open all day and night without bars to ensure that someone doesn't mistake it for an invitation to rob the home! "
>>
>>I don't get that statement. Lack of bars is an invitation for a robbery? All across america people sleep with their windows open.<<

I'm not talking about the US, Jim, I'm talking about the DR. Please recall that the average Dominican has a single story house, or at most a two-story house. How many Americans with a single-story house do you know would sleep with their barless windows open at night???? I'd like to know where in the US it's still so safe that people can do that.

Regards,
Keith
 
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jim

Guest
"JIM HINCH IS RIGHT"

I OWN A HOSE IN PUERTO PLATA AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE BARS ARN'T ON THE WINDOWS JUST FOR FRESH AIR,THEY HAVE ONE PURPOSE ONLY,TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT,AND YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE SOMEONE STAYING THERE ALL THE TIME,OR YOU WIL COME HOME AND FIND NOT ONLY THE CONTENTS OF THE HOUSE GONE,BUT ALLSO,THE WATER PUMP,WATER HEATER,EXPANSION TANK,AND ANYTHING ELSE THEY CAN TAKE .I KNOW, IT HAPPENED TO ME......JIM
 
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jim

Guest
"JIM HINCH IS RIGHT"

dominicans arn't as concered about the breeze blowing through as they are a crook blowing through,and taking all their stuff with him.I have a house in pop,and I can tell you those bars are not decorative,they have one purpose,and thats not to let the smell out, or the breeze in,they are to keep people out and nothing more,and those bars only provide a little distaction for a crook if that house is not watched all the time......jim
 
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Keith R

Guest
Re: Not necessarily

I never said that the bars were only for air -- I said it was one of the reasons. Jim claimed that the bars had nothing to do with keeping windows and doors open for air flow, i.e., that the bars are ONLY for security, which you seem to believe too. Fine. We agree to disagree. My experience, and my Dominican family and friends, suggest differently. I guess I can only speak about the places I know about, namely Santo Domingo, Duverge, San Cristobal, Bonao, Ramon Santana...I admit, I do not know the PP-Sosua area well, because when I lived in Santo Domingo 24/7/365 for four years, I didn't do the tourist gig.
Regards,
Keith
 
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Keith R

Guest
Re: I'm talking about a house lived in

I'm not talking about a house occupied part-time or only on vacations in some beach town. I'm talking about a house that has people living in it 24/7/365. Not the same thing.
 
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Jim Hinsch

Guest
Re: I'm talking about a house lived in

" I'm not talking about a house occupied part-time or only on vacations in some beach town. I'm talking about a house that has people living in it 24/7/365. Not the same thing. "

Please explain how the function of bars on doors and windows changes when the house is located near the beach, or if it is not occupied 24x7x365.
 
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Jim Hinsch

Guest
Kieth R: "Spoken like someone who has not actually lived in the DR"

I don't (and won't) advertise my work, leisure, property, houses, business, holdings, etc. in the DR. I don't need to to justify my expertise. My knowledge speaks for itself. You don't have a clue about where I "live". (I spend more time in the Dominican Republic than any other single place, including American cities.

You can try, but it is a poor attempt to disqualify my knowledge just because I don't occupy a continuous space. To attack the background of the poster instead of the information on its merits is, well, what it is.

No, the bars aren't for air flow, they are for security. Ask anybody that has them. Those louvers can be kicked in in a pinch, opened or closed. The louvers provide little security, open or closed. The bars do provide security.

I know you are talking about the DR. I'm just surprised you admit that no bars is an invitation to get robbed. The reverse is not true in MOST parts of America, but in high crime areas, it also holds. So don't try to sweeten it by saying the bars are not for security. If somebody wants ventilation, they use a fan. When they want security, they use bars. My point was that one doesn't need to put bars on their windows in order to get ventilation because a closed window without bars in the DR is just as big of a security risk as an open window without bars.

Apparently you don't know much about the USA. I've lived and worked in 15 different cities in the USA and have traveled to just about every state. In 90% of the USA, there are no bars on the windows and no alarms. Have you ever heard of the suburbs? The countryside? The mountains? You will generally only find bars on homes in high crime areas, especially within big cities. In fact, most of the setups I've seen in the DR would be fire-code violations in the USA - you can't get out without a key! Trust me. The bars are for security and most Americans live without bars and without house alarms.

FYI: Any alarm worth it's weight has a battery backup. Loss of power is not an excuse to use bars instead of an alarm.