The "I" in the Cibaeno dialect

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cibaenopuro

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where does it originate from? i think it must be spanish influence, because i've heard chilean campesinos speak with an "I" and Chile never had any tainos or african slaves, so there's no other explanation for it. What do you think?

this is what i'm refering to:

"vete pa'i coimado"
 

bachata

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Do you really wants to know where it comes from? OK, here is the answer; Same place where people from Santo Domingo got the "L".
And let me tell you something not all Cibaenos use the "I" only aigunos.

haha

JJ
 

Chirimoya

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No idea if it's true, but I've heard people claim that it originates in Galicia (NW Spain), one of the regions that sent lots of immigrants to the Americas, including the DR.
 

Hillbilly

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AI once heard that this I for R sound in Spanish comes from Andaluc?a en Spain. How much truth to that I cannot say.
In parts of the Deep South they use a lot of reflexives: Se me cay? la taza.
The L for R in Santo Domingo: Pol fabol. Might be African in origin...

HB
 

Chirimoya

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I'm from Andalucia - sort of - but have never heard the I for R. It's more likely to be Galician.

The R for L, though (as in the southwest of the DR), is a very common Andaluz pronunciation.
 

Hillbilly

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So I am right and wrong? Okay, I can have Senior Moments. Gallegos use the I for R??

And you southerners the L for R, okay, I'll try an member that..

HB
 

bachata

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AI once heard that this I for R sound in Spanish comes from Andaluc?a en Spain. How much truth to that I cannot say.
In parts of the Deep South they use a lot of reflexives: Se me cay? la taza.
The L for R in Santo Domingo: Pol fabol. Might be African in origin...

HB

People from the deep south speak backwards ex.
correct:
Se me cayo la taza.
Southerner way.
Me se callo la taza.
This people have an other peculiar form to talk, in the pronunciation of the verbs they don't use the "R"
Ex:

Planchar / plancha.

JJ
 

Chirimoya

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"Me se..." is also heard in Andalucia - especially among very uneducated speakers.
 

Chip

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My daughters have all got it really bad. I do my best to correct them but I'm just a gringo machucando at the end of the day.
 

cibaenopuro

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I'm from Andalucia - sort of - but have never heard the I for R. It's more likely to be Galician.

The R for L, though (as in the southwest of the DR), is a very common Andaluz pronunciation.

andalusia is a region twice the size of the DR, if we have variants in accents or dialects by region i'm sure andalusia does too. i've heard people say that they've heard people in some towns of andalusia speaking with la i, i've also heard the portuguese or galician theory but i don't know much about it. all i know is that it must be of european origin, because alot of chilean campesinos speak with the "i" too and they did not have africans or any sort of arawak tribes like we did, the only common origin is our european heritage.
 

Marianopolita

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Suggested reading- Books on sociolinguistics...

You will be able to find more information about this topic in books rather than on the internet. Some books are available online for sampling such as Google books but not all pages are part of the sample. However, in my opinion based on some that I have read about 60% of a Google book can be read online.


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The topic that addresses your question is sociolinguistics. It's still considered a fairly new branch of linguistics but in my opinion the most interesting because it's the study of the relationship between language and society and analyzes the historical factors that influenced language through to modern day changes in a speech population which includes historical factors, the influence of other languages on a language, the differences between urban and rural speakers, social class, social ethnic class etc.

Although quite a bit of analysis has been done thus far in the field on Spanish sociolinguistics, I wish there were more information. Linguists and Sociolinguists tend to analyze the language as a whole with the preliminary separation between Spain vs. Latin America and then analysis of the different linguistics regions of Latin America (and this separation is a key factor in understanding the vast speech pattern differences in LA). The Caribbean region is an area that stands out in sociolinguistics because of the many regional differences in the spoken language on all levels as compared to what's considered the standard.

Have you read ?C?mo hablamos los dominicanos? by Grupo Le?n Jimenes? It's a thorough sociolinguistic study of the speech of Dominicans. I read the book in 2005 when it was suggested by a poster (NALs) and it remains as the best and most complete study of Spanish spoken in the Dominican Republic I have yet to read. The book evidences excellent field work and research on Dominican speech patterns, phonetics, vocabulary, syntax (sentence structure) and regional speech differences among Dominicans. I highly recommend reading it. A full PDF copy of the book is available on their website or check for a hard copy at Librer?a Cuesta.

http://www.glj.com.do/home.php/biblioteca_virtual/como_hablamos_los_dominicanos

Specific to this thread and what has been mentioned, the book reveals a thorough analysis on the /L/ to /R/, /R/ to /L/ and the /i/ in the Cibao region replacing both the /L/ and /R/ as well as assimilation (doubling) of consonants by Dominicans speakers which in my opinion is definitely more prevalent among Cubans but once against it shows the linguistic drift from one region to another and thus a comparative speech pattern among Cubans and Dominicans. The /R/ to /L/ change in my opinion is common in Dominican speech but even more so among Puerto Ricans. The book details good information about these phonetic features. It states that the /L/ to /R/ change is very frequent in Andaluc?a (Chapter 2, page 86, so there's the historical aspect relating to language) and provides thorough details and a breakdown of the research done in the country based on sample speech patterns of Dominican speakers from all over the island.

These differences are definitely a reflection of cultured speech vs. less educated speech. One does not have to know the sociolinguistic details to recognize these speech patterns in the DR and the Caribbean as a whole. You can hear it, it's prevalent, it's part of the many differences in Caribbean Spanish that’s recognized amongst Spanish speakers (although in my experience many of the lesser educated do not recognize some of the grave errors in their speech). Sociolinguistic studies also reveal a lot about the demographic population of a region over a period of time.

I have not read much on the history and origin of the /i/ cibae?o but I have read some interesting details on the 'stigmatization' of it among Dominican speakers. For information on the /i/ cibae?o look up John Lipski, a linguist and professor whose focus is Latin American Spanish. He has published many books and has written several essays (available online) on various sociolinguistic aspects of Spanish including a focus on the Dominican Republic. If your research is casual then you can take your time to read some of what he's written.

If you are truly interested, you would definitely enjoy exploring aspects of this topic rather than I provide bits and pieces (and it's time consuming for me as well). I recommend this recent book release: Varieties of Spanish in the United States by John M. Lipski (there are interesting chapters on the features of Cuban, Dominican and Puerto Rican Spanish) and I recommend reading his essays. Some are lengthy but well worth the read.



-MP.
 
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