Translation comments/Spanish/English/German

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Tom

Guest
Hello:

I wanted to try this new translation program for accuracy. Obviously, it won't be perfect, but I wanted to know if the translation was close enough to understand

Thank you,

Tom

Hola:

Yo quise probar este nuevo programa de traducci?n para la exactitud. Obviamente, no ser? perfecto, pero yo quise saber si la traducci?n fuera el cierre bastante para entender

Gracias,

Tom

Guten Tag:

Ich wollte dieses neue ?bersetzung-Programm f?r Genauigkeit versuchen. Offensichtlich wird es nicht perfekt sein, sondern ich wollte wissen, wenn die ?bersetzung genug Ende zum Verstehen w?re,

Danke,

Tom
 
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Pascal Yhuello

Guest
Tom ,

I am impressed..., it's fine by me but guess should be used with extrem cautious , this is too short text to prove it works. I will be quite happy to check a longer text for you . Email Pascal.Yhuello@de.opel.com Is this working in French as well ? could check it also Pascal
 
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Fabio J. Guzman

Guest
Tom:

First sentence is OK except you don't say "para la exactitud". Second sentence starts fine but then stumbles badly with the phrase "si la traducci?n fuera el cierre bastante para entender". The word "cierre" is totally inadequate here and would leave any monolingual Spanish speaker wondering what you meant.
 
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Tom

Guest
Fabio

Been a time since I heard from you. The program definetly needs refinement, but I need to understand the capabilites also. That was a "draft" translation without using any of the grammar add ons

Thanks for the input

Tom
 
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Pascal Yhuello

Guest
I am not sure about the interpretation of ' cerre ' in this context but I think we should all ( spanish , non spanish , dominican spanish , and the others ) be carefull. Let's be honest dominican is not spanish and belgian french is not french and you name it..... look at the word cerre below in same context as in Tom's text and it comes from a ' mana' de Zaragoza Spain and it is perfectly ok not to imply proper . Pascal Maria Jose Sarasa @ GME SPAIN 06/02/99 06:46 PM

To: Pascal Yhuello@GMRUESSELSHEIM@GMRUESSELSHEIM cc: Subject:Hola

Aunque estamos de cierre no me olvido ? FELIZ CUMPLEA?OS! Que pases un buen d?a Besos Maria
 
J

jerry

Guest
Tom

Which program are you using. I first tried Universal translator. The problem I found was the word miss. you can miss someone, be a miss smith, miss the bus or the bus can just miss hitting you. Everytime you write i miss you, it would come out yo senorita te. but if it works out, it might be worth checking it out until my spanish is up to snuff. but i have been speaking english for more years then i care to remember and still have problems with it.

Jerry
 
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Jim Hinsch

Guest
I find translators better for reading than writing.

Jim Hinsch JimHinsch@CSI.COM
 
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Martine

Guest
First sentence is OK, but maybe ?precisi?n? would be better than ?exactitud?. As to the second sentence, if I didn?t have the English translation above, I would not know what is meant by ?fuera el cierre bastante para entender. Keep working on it though, we need a good translation program.

Martine
 
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Fabio J. Guzman

Guest
I insist. The word ?cierre? makes no sense in the translated text. The reason is simple. While in English the word ?close? may mean both the action of closing something (?close the door?) and the fact of being near to or next to something, in Spanish this doesn?t work. ?Cierre? in Spanish refers only to the act of closing something and could never be an adverb of position denoting proximity. Other words such as ?cercano?, ?pr?ximo? would be used.

Regarding the statement that ?dominican? is not Spanish, I didn?t know there was such thing as ?dominican? as a language. I am a Dominican national but I speak and write Spanish. Dominicans, like Peruvians, Argentinians, Costa Ricans or Spaniards, may have different accents, may use some words with a meaning different from other countries, etc. but they speak the same language subject to one grammar, which of course is subject to change with time. Every few years the ?Real Academia Espa?ola? updates its dictionary and its grammar. Dialectical usages of certain words in different countries are duly noted. This is done not just by Spaniards but by committees formed by members from all the ?Academias? of Spanish-speaking countries (including the ?Academia Norteamericana? in New York). If you look up the word ?cierre? in the ?Diccionario de la Lengua Espa?ola? (1992 ed., p. 334), you will find out that the only meaning of ?cierre? in Spanish relates to the action of closing something. The whole purpose of the enterprise is precisely the unity of the Spanish language. An educated Dominican uses the same grammar as an educated Patagonian or Spaniard, just as English grammar is basically the same in England and the U.S., even without the benefit of ?Academies?. Of course, an uneducated Dominican or Spaniard will not speak or write correctly. Neither would a dropout from the Bronx write or speak English like a professor from Harvard.

As as amateur linguist, I realize that I have simplified things somewhat. We could have endless seminars on the concept of ?language?, whether ?dialects? are ?languages?, whether certain ways of speaking a language constitute a ?dialect?, or a different language, etc. The mainstream however holds that there is such thing as a standard transnational Spanish or English language.
 
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bonita

Guest
Hi Tom, just want to say, the german translation sounds very funny. With much fantasy I can understand it, but some words are not correct and without a context.

greetings from germany bonita
 
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Pascal Yhuello

Guest
****Regarding the statement that ?dominican? is not Spanish, I didn?t know there was such thing as ?dominican? as a language. I am a Dominican national but I speak and write Spanish. Dominicans, like Peruvians, Argentinians, Costa Ricans or Spaniards, may have different accents, may use some words with a meaning different from other countries, etc. but they speak the same language subject to one grammar****

My statement about lingual/cultural diferences wasn't meant to imply good or bad , better or worse and was not relating to the cultural level of anyone. I meant to highlight that under the umbrella of a language family , there is hopefully variations which indeed reflect the cultural aspect of a group/nation/country which is in my opinion the most interesting thing in life because it enriches people . I speak four languages and happened to marry a dominican girl , a few years later went to Spain a year on a work assignment with no worry and proud of my ability to speak ' Spanish'. Reality is that in Spain , Spanish as a language is not recognized and is being replaced by ' Castillano ' to actually highlight the language variations across the spanish speaking countries.I had to restructure the way I was putting things to get my message across to people in business meetings. Let's face it british english is not american english , nor Dutch is flemish in many ways. I may be one of the rare european posting messages and do travel a lot in foreign countries . In the south of Italy the preterito perfecto simple is very much used and doesn't relate to time , it doesn't tell you when things actually happened while in the north the preterito perfecto compuesto is prefered as it says when things did happen. languages carry economical constraints such as time as for instance time is money. No worry though , I love very much speak Dominican and keep away from castillano . Pascal
 
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JC

Guest
Yo **quise** [quer?a] probar este nuevo programa de traducci?n para [determinar] **la** [su] exactitud. Obviamente, no ser? perfecto, pero yo **quise** [quer?a] saber si la traducci?n **fuera** [era] **el cierre bastante** [lo suficiente correcta] para [ser] **entender** [comprendida]

** Eliminate

[] Add
 
J

JC

Guest
>>>Aunque estamos de cierre no me olvido>>>

The context here means:"Event though we are [saying good bye] I don?t forget"
 
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JC

Guest
>>>The mainstream however holds that there is such thing as a standard transnational Spanish>>

...which is only used by a cultural elite.

When I write advertising or editorial copy for the Hispanic market in the USA I run into the problem that the vocabulary of that "transnational spanish" is a foreign language to the common denominator in the population. If some instances I have found that using the english equivalent is better, specially with new terminology (technology related) or even no so new: Gu?a Hidr?ulico (power steering).

I some cases a word may be right but not precise to a particular latin group. Look at this:

To Drive: Guiar, dirigir, conducir, manejar.

In some latin american countries the impact of the indian languages and dialects is significant (Per? and M?xico are prime examples). In others the spanish used retain a lot of traditional [archaic] terms (Such as Colombia and Venezuela) that are not recognized by other countries.

Territories that were occupied by France, Holland, and England (among others) also received linguistic input in their mix as well.

Our own "Cibao" use a lot of terms that today are still used in "Gallego", "Luso-Portuguese" and "Brazilian-Portuguese", since this three share evolutionary roots with archaic spanish.

Remember that poem from school textbooks?

"Moza tan fermosa non vi en la frontera" (Marqu?s de Santillana).

Regards

JC
 
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b glass

Guest
JC,

I want to thank you so much for the paragraph about the reasons people from Cibao speak the way they do. I've tried to explain it to some mainland latin american friends who are contemptuous of Dominicans in general and especially the way cibaenos speak. I explained the same thing you said but they wouldn't believe it. So I'm printing this out (hope it's ok with you) and showing it to them.

bglass
 
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JC

Guest
Are you from El Cibao? I am from Santo Domingo but my father is from Moca and my mother from Santiago. I love the valley for the majesty of its mountains and rivers, and also for the beautiful cibae?itas ;-)

When I was in the DR in 1989 I almost lost my foolish heart, mental sanity and cherished freedom for a Vegana. Whew! That was a close call.

Talking seriously, I can relate to the story with your latin American friends. I had have people trying to pull all sort of jokes on me for the same reasons but since I speak four languages fluently and they only speak half of one, it usually takes me under 5 minutes to put them where they belong.
 
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