80% of Dominicans are thieves!!

Golo100 · Nov 19, 2002

This is not a misprint. This is not me saying this. This is the latest statement by Don Hippo-lito Me-quilla, president of our banana republic.

Yes Hippo, in defense or justification for his protege Pepe-credit card-Goico has stated that Pepito is not the only "bandit" in this country and that 80% of Dominicans have stolen or committed acts of thievery. Well, speak for yourself you loudmouth bald mongolico!!!

This is the ultimate insult by a president who does not know how to differentiate between being a head of state and a the vulgar human being he has been all his life. The "come yerba" as he is known in a town where his bodyguard killed a free man for speaking out, now wants to place hard working Dominicans in the same class as this vulgar thief, who is the scum of the earth.

But dont think this statement has only been made to Dominicans, but to all foreigners living here alike. We are all here and live here. He also meant YOU!

Well, I speak for myself Mr. Hippo. I pay my taxes. I make my money legally. I have never hired a suspected thief even for cleaning my house. You hire thieves and accused con men to head the most sensitive areas of our government. You have shamed the military by overriding the military codes governing military promotions and enlistments by hiring a man who has a criminal case pending and has now repeated the same offense.

Speak for yourself COME YERBA!

TW

Jane J. · Nov 19, 2002

I wish he could read that! Seriously, does anyone have Hippo's email address?

Robert · Nov 19, 2002

Email, thats way advanced...

JOHNNY HONDA · Nov 19, 2002

Hey Guys and Gals thats Hippos version of truth in Government,now if we can only get him to admit his transgressions.hmmmm that would make for interesting press:beard:

ccarabella · Nov 19, 2002

internet@presidencia.gov.do

I got it from this website www.presidencia.gov.do

Jane J. · Nov 19, 2002

Should I sign it "cari?osamente.....GOLO"?

MommC · Nov 19, 2002

How about someone posting a "form" letter in Spanish (or a couple of variations for us Spanish impaired) that we could cut and paste to send to the above!! Maybe if we send enough of them to "shut down" the servers it may grab "His Dumbness" attention!!

Escott · Nov 19, 2002

Or get you jailed

arturo · Nov 19, 2002

I agree with Jazzcom, I recommend you all restrict your ravings to the harmless environs of this forum. Don't confuse ineffective administration with a lack of power over the military and the police. Besides, if his thievery rate claim were really off the wall, why would it bother anyone here?

Golo100 · Nov 19, 2002

Arturo

What Hippo-cryte did with this statement goes beyond what each of us personally feel. It is a matter of national hurt and pride in ourselves. As I mentioned before, the majority of the Dominican people are hard working citizens who obey the law and pay their taxes, and work to make their country a better place. Investors want to be sure we work hard and honestly. Why would they open up more free trade zones and bring in new companies with 80% thieves?

Read this article printed this afternoon in El Nacional, long after I posted. It is not me alone. The people are quietly outraged by this insult.

FROM "EL NACIONAL, NOVEMBER 19,2002.(ADENTRO)
?Son bandidos ocho de cada diez dominicanos?
POR LEO REYES

"El presidente Hip?lito Mej?a pudo no haber medido el alcance y la trascendencia de sus palabras al decir que ocho de cada diez dominicanos son bandidos.
Esa infeliz valoraci?n, en labios del Presidente, a quien se asume conocimiento de la sicolog?a del dominicano, adquiere categor?a de infalible para cualquier extranjero que en su pa?s lea las declaraciones del mandatario.

Esa imagen distorsionada y esos porcentajes alegres contribuyen a alentar prejuicios y desconfianza y a crear estereotipos sobre la calidad humana del dominicano.

El diccionario Larouse define bandido como "persona fugitiva de la justicia, bandolero, granuja, truh?n". Define truh?n como "granuja que vive de enga?os y estafas, que con bufonadas, bromas, gestos o cuentos divierte a otros".

La realidad, sin embargo, es que el dominicano com?n es un hombre honrado y trabajador y que los bandidos y truhanes, presentes en toda sociedad, son siempre los menos, como en cualquiera otra sociedad, as? sean los m?s escandalosos o en torno a los cuales se produzcan los m?s grandes esc?ndalos.

Si ese es el concepto que tiene el presidente Mej?a de los dominicanos, ?qu? podr?a pensar el extranjero de los miles de hombres y mujeres dominicanos emigrantes que alimentan la econom?a del pa?s con sus remesas mensuales producto del sacrificio, las horas de trabajo y la nostalgia de saberse lejos de su pa?s?.

Menos traum?tico hubiera sido si el Presidente en su declaraci?n hubiera invertido los porcentajes y en vez de ocho hubiera dicho que dos de cada 10 dominicanos son bandidos."

No obstante, no es al presidente Mej?a a quien toca desacreditar la honra del dominicano trabajador, antes por el contrario, su deber debe ser el de proteger el buen nombre de sus ciudadanos.
Todav?a en el caso de que, con su original estilo, el presidente Mej?a aludiera a la clase pol?tica, no es cre?ble que ocho de cada diez pol?ticos sean bandidos.

Desde siempre en la sociedad dominicana la pol?tica ha sido una forma de ascender social y econ?micamente. Pero no es la ?nica actividad, aunque s? la que lo permite m?s r?pido.

Joaqu?n Balaguer dec?a que la corrupci?n se deten?a a las puertas de su despacho y reconoc?a que en sus primeros doce a?os de Gobierno se hab?an fabricado nuevos 300 millonarios.

El mismo presidente Mej?a reconoce que los actos de corrupci?n que se han detectado entre funcionarios, afectan la imagen de su gobierno y ha proclamdo, como proclaman los cubanos en grandes letreros en las calles de La Habana, "se puede meter la pata, pero no la mano".

El malogrado general Omar Torrijos, que con sus salidas y ocurrencias en mucho se parec?a a Mej?a, se burlaba una vez de quienes ped?an hacer de Panam? una nueva Suiza pregunt?ndose "?de d?nde sacamos los suizos?".

Habr?a que pensar que el presidente Mej?a, honrado a toda prueba, se excedi? en un arranque de entusiasmo por la lucha de su gobierno contra la corrupci?n o de c?lera por ver que el lodo lleg? hasta su entorno.

arturo · Nov 19, 2002

I can't disagree with the essayist's assertions about the President's responsibility to uphold the honor of Dominicans. I further agree that a statements about the citizenry carry much more weight when spoken by the President and read by foriegners. I also think the writer hit the nail on the head when he infered that the President appears defensive now that the filth of corruption are starting to stain his guayabera.

Marc · Nov 19, 2002

Not sure on this one

I have to agree that the head of state can't be making this type of comment. At the same time, how far off is the comment. Depends what you call a "thief".

When I lived down there I believe the stat was something like 60% of people stole their power rather than pay for it. Add onto that all the people in positions to "be good to you" for a price at the power company, water company, business license issuers, counterfeit placa salesmen. How about people that rip off tourists by trying to charge 100pesos for a 5 peso fair, customs personnel, AMET, PN, etc...

I don't know that 80% is that far off. My definition of "theft" may be different from yours. But still not for the big Kahuna to use as an excuse...

marc

Jane J. · Nov 19, 2002

Define truh?n como "granuja que vive de enga?os y estafas, que con bufonadas, bromas, gestos o cuentos divierte a otros.

That's a definition of Hipolito if I ever heard one.

I think it's unfair to even speculate whether the figure of 80% is correct or not - it's a scientifically specious, unfounded number that popped into Hippo's bald little pinhead the moment he spoke it. If there is an inordinate amount of corruption (and yes, I know there is) doesn't the blame fall on the system itself, which demonstrates that the *best* way to get ahead is by eschewing moral judgement?

He has a lot of gall and delusion to even COMPARE his brand and scale of thievery with that of your common, every day little bandido. Gah.

Porfio_Rubirosa · Nov 19, 2002

Right. Without even delving into whether the percentage is true, the statement was unbecoming of a Dominican President, or any statesman for that matter.

That said, I suspect the percentage of greedy, thieving, give-me-something-for-nothing bastards in the country is closer to 40% - the 40% that voted for this turkey in the first place that is.

I don't know what makes me cry more, his inane remarks or the glare off the top of his head!

Jim Hinsch · Nov 20, 2002

100% is more like it. The philosphy of ethics.

He should not have said it just because it is offensive. 
But what did he mean? 
I say it means 80% of Dominicans are in a situation where stealing is the better option amongst choices. Or that 80% of Dominicans do not give much weight to personal ethics when considering to steal or not to steal. 
This is not indicative of character. It is indicative of situation.
100%. 
100% of Dominicans are thieves and liars and cheaters. 
100% of Americans lie, cheat, steal, and feel no remorse.
It doesn't matter how the dictionary defines it. 
We all conjure up our own idea of what a thief is. In my book, a thief is someone whose situation frequently finds stealing as the best of options. What is stealing? Taking something that isn't yours? Who's to say it isn't mine, or that it is stealing? You? The govt.? Ha ha. The government has been lying and stealing from me since I was born so don't give me that legal, moral, and sanctimonious crap. One person's stealing is another person's "spread of democracy", "immanent domain", "taxation", fines, and fees.
Anybody and everybody will lie, cheat, and steal if that is their best option. It's just not possible to behave in any way other than the best option. Maybe their evaluation is flawed or they have bad data, but nobody does it because they are evil.
It's not a morality issue. Those that don't steal are not more righteous. 
The only way to curb this kind of stealing is to make it the worse option. Penalties and punishment, public scorn, or even instilling a deep sense of personal failure at the act. All acts of theft come with their rewards and penalties. You want to stop the thievery? Make it the worse option. Perhaps alleviate the condition that makes the theft rewarding. Make the person feel bad (scorn) about it. ?
You've stolen So have I. 
We only differ in the frequency of the act of stealing, the scale, the audacity, and whether or not our personal feelings (ethics)weigh in heavily as a deterrent.
Consider this. If I was a thief at that moment, at what moment am I exonerated of the label? 1 minute, 1 day, 1 year, 20 years? When the government says? When the law says? Ha ha ha. Go back and read the post on the origin of laws.
What keeps us from lying, cheating, or stealing? 
When those acts are the less desirable option. Period. I don't care if the "down side" is public ridicule, jail, torture, fines, "living with myself", feelings for the victim, or the loss of the ability to feel "sanctimonious" and holy.
If I don't steal now, it's because it is not the best option. 
It is irrelevant whether the reason is damage to my reputation and personal integrity should I get caught (risk factor), or if the reason is because I cannot feel good about myself (ethics), consideration for the victim (feelings), or if it's because I want to set a good example. It is still based on selfish reason, not sanctimonious holier-than-thou altruism. Altruism doesn't exist without self-defining one's limits. Defining when the payback for making a decision doesn't count as selfish, as in when an act is done because it makes YOU feel good to have helped.
Me too. 
You never stole a pencil from work? Never lied in your life? Never left work 1 minute early yet still charged your employer for the time? Never padded an expense report, never popped a grocery store item into your mouth and then failed to declare it, never stole someone else's girl or man, never stole the life of an insect because you felt like putting your foot down right then and there?
It's relative, and everybody and anybody will steal when it is the better option. It's just that some people place more weight on how they feel about themselves after having done wrong. So maybe Hipo should say 80% of Dominicans are not deterred from stealing based on ethics.
It is still just a matter of the degrees and each person's perspective and personal ethics. Desperate people do desperate things. Those living the cushy life don't need the detriment that comes with a given fraud. So the don't do it.

So, Golo, a man who prides himself on being able to milk the most out of the "system" with the least amount of effort (this is known as financial sucess), is a better man because he followed the rules, the law, at least the one with regard to stealing? Better at the game maybe.

It least he did when it suited him. Of course, because if there was a practical way to circumvent the rules, he'd be foolish not to, as in using connections to avoid penalties for violating laws. As in bribing to get things done. As in deciding which laws to obey and which ones not. Don't get me wrong, I agree. Me too. He's the smarter man for it. And he does weigh the risk/reward factor on each decision - follow the rules or to hell with them.

The credit card thieves aren't bad, just bold. And now they shall pay the price of the risk they took. They wanted big reward, they took a big risk, and they lost. To jail with the lot of them. Not for punishment, but to not send them off is to take away the deterrent.

So off to jail with the bunch of them. Not with malice, but with indifference Like a casino clearing the board of lost bets. It's not personal, it's the system.
</FONT

Pib · Nov 20, 2002

For the ones with reading comprehension problems...

Ocho de cada diez_{^{Mal de muchos, consuelo de tontos}} dominicanos _{^{A palabras necias o?dos sordos}} son bandidos _{^{El ladr?n juzga por su condici?n}}.

Hip?lito _{^{Dime con quien andas y te dir? quien eres}}

Pib
In shame. _{^{For having an idiot for a president}}

Golo100 · Nov 20, 2002

It is simpler than getting into philosophy

The problem here is that his statement was an effort to justify Pepe Goico's actions by comparing him with 80% of Dominicans. Well, 80% of Dominicans are not committing credit card fraud, which is ouright theft of money and services directly from a financial institution.

The daring, corruption, abuse and lack of concern for laws involved in this very act is not something the common citizen gets involved. Moreover, it is widely known that laundering money, transporting and selling drugs, falsifying credit cards, top government bribery are major crimes against society. Most of us are not in this league of criminality, and never will be.

As for stealing electricity, this is not theft per se. Providing free electricity to barrios and poor neighborhoods was a way for governmenty to keep peace in an atmosphere of high criminality and corruption in high levels of government. Since they kept everything to themselves, they left the poor with free services. Electric power belongs to the people. It was hard earned thru lack of unemployment, and other services not provided by government. Bribing police for traffic violations was established as a quasi-legal activity by Balaguer himself, when he said "Los policias no ganan lo suficiente. Esta es su manera de buscarselas"

If the government had not set up "buscones" as an extra-official employment source to keep their party members happy there would have been no need for bribery. This is a legal activity for license plates and inspection stickers. The government gives away inspection stickers to buscones for sale.

TW

suarezn · Nov 20, 2002

8 more years..

In spite of the statements he makes and even though the economy goes to hell, because of the large debt being incurred by his government, and the electricity situation is not resolved, etc...etc...etc...I still anticipate that the PRD will be in power for at least two more periods. Hippo(crite) will get re-elected in 2004, and don't be surprised if the constitution is "reformed" again to allow for a third run. Everybody complains, but in the end at election time, they all end up voting for the same people who are screwing them.

It's amazing how many times politicians can make promises, get elected, not deliver on those promises, make those same promises again, get elected again, not deliver on those promises again, make the same promises again....you ge the drift... and people still believe them, even though they've heard it a million times and know that in the end nothing will be done.

You gotta give it to them...These people are really good.

Golo100 · Nov 20, 2002

Did Hippo stick his foor in his big mouth?

Well, after all. I don't feel so bad any more. After a good night's sleep I analyzed again what Hippo said about 80% of Dominicans being thieves and I arrived at the following conclusions:

In a previous statement during the presidential campaign Hippo said that 99% of PRD politicians are corrupt. Considering what he said yesterday, and based on the poll or survey he used to come up with this statement, and extrapolating the results to real numbers, one has to assume the following:

1)3,194,816 Dominicans voted in the 2000 elections. 1,593,231 were PRD members. Therefore the PRD had 1,274,585 members who are thieves, drug dealers, counterfeiters, money launderers,robbers and every kind of criminal element you can find. Since more than 400,000 PRD members are in government positions and only the most vocal, political oriented people were able to land jobs with Hippo, based on his own formula we have close to 399,000 thieves in public service.

2)Since the PRD party has 29 senators out of 31, based on Hippo's own figures all 29 of them are corrupt and at least 23 are vulgar thieves. The PRD part has another 60 or so thieves in the Chamber of Deputies, by Hippo's own standards.

3)Since 80% of our bankers are thieves we better think twice about where to deposit our money.

4)One victim of this thievery has already closed down for all practical purposes...our Post Office Inposdom. Almost everyone there is a thief, using Hippos' numbers.

5)We better think twice about confessing our sins. Our church prelates are mostly thieves who pocket the offerings and gossip with the information we confess to them, using Hippo's numbers.

6)Since 100% of public officials are politicians and most are PRD members, then 99% of our judges are thieves. They can easily sell you a discharge or keep you in prison unless you pay, according to Hippo's figures.

So you see, I feel better now. Hippo has confirmed how corrupt his government is and that Pepegate is only the tip of the iceberg.

TW

Marc · Nov 20, 2002

Re: It is simpler than getting into philosophy

golo said:
As for stealing electricity, this is not theft per se...Electric power belongs to the people.

TW

This is where we differ in opinion. Regardless of how it started, stealing power is theft imho and the root cause of your power problems.

Power does not "belong" to anyone free of charge when you have private companies generating it.

Like the post with the stats in it, good stuff.

marc

80% of Dominicans are thieves!!

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