Blackhawk Down 2?

Vacara

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May 5, 2009
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First let me explain to any tourist reading this post that the actions depicted in the video are limited to a tiny area of Santo Domingo (see the map, the area highlighted in blue), and that there's very little chance they will ever encounter something like this.

Graphic1.jpg


So I saw this video on youtube and I could not believe my eyes, never though the drug problem was so bad in DR.

Immediately after watching it a few question popped in my head and I think people in this forum with military knowledge might be able to respond, like:

- How good is the technique used by the DNCD in this drug raids?.

- How good are they armed compared to the drug dealers?, I'm not good at weapons but I don't think shotguns are made for this type of action, specially against guys who have automatic weapons.

- How about the use of suspects as shield?, and the type of vehicle they use (pick up truck)?.

I personally think this is not a job for police but rather the army, and to think that according to the narrator this happens every night!!. Anyway enjoy.

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That is a good video for all the people on this board who think that the police do nothing good in DR. I would work with most of those guys anyday,they showed guts going straight ahead under fire,I salute them for their bravery. As for the use of pick up trucks??? You use what ever your superiors give you,I would rather use a different vehicle and not the motor cycles either,but thats what they get so they make do.Some of the police were armed with automatic weapons but the camera guy seemed focused on the guy with the shot gun. Job well done boys and my condolences to the men who lost their lives trying to do a thankless job.
 

Robert

Stay Frosty!
Jan 2, 1999
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This video is about 4-6 months old.

This is indeed a thankless task and I wouldn't want to be a cop for a second, in any part of the world. They deserve a lot more respect than they get.

The DNCD here have a drug problem and their own people are involved.
Money talks and it doesn't take much to get someone to turn a blind eye.

Nice move on the dog!
 

zoomzx11

Gold
Jan 21, 2006
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Wow

Brave reporters, cameraman and police. Shotgun is weapon of choice in a city otherwise you might kill an innocent person blocks away. Amazing video. My one criticism is that there is not enough police officers for an action like this. The cops need to go in large numbers as to be seen as an overwhelming force such that resistance is futile. In a barrio with tight quarters that can be hard to do. Other option is to seal off the area using more cops. Army is good for patrol but these cops seem to know exactly what they are doing. Police behavior might have been improved by their knowing they were on video. Excellent clip of what the drug problem is like. At this point I want to withdraw my application for a job with the Santo Domingo PD-too dangerous. These are very brave guys.
 

Vacara

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May 5, 2009
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That is a good video for all the people on this board who think that the police do nothing good in DR. I would work with most of those guys anyday,they showed guts going straight ahead under fire,I salute them for their bravery. As for the use of pick up trucks??? You use what ever your superiors give you,I would rather use a different vehicle and not the motor cycles either,but thats what they get so they make do.Some of the police were armed with automatic weapons but the camera guy seemed focused on the guy with the shot gun. Job well done boys and my condolences to the men who lost their lives trying to do a thankless job.

Some people here would rather give the dealers the benefit of the doubt than feel pity for the cops.

As for the use of pick up truck, like Rumfeld once said; you go to war with the army you got, no the army you wish to have, but my point is; it is scandalous sending guys this poorly equipped to what appears to be a sure death. Now that you mentioned it, the guy on the bike can't do anything while driving, and the two lawmakers who applied for tax exemptions to import Roll Royces (http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/local/2009/9/4/33144/A-poor-Dominican-lawmaker-can-afford-a-Rolls-Royce) should donate a couple of humvees to the DNCD.
 
Mar 2, 2008
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If the amount of the seized drugs that are shown indicates anything, it seems like a fairly large operation for not much of an end result. Also it seems as though the operation was carried out as a drag-net. It is unclear if all those arrested were actual suspects, or just some "collateral catch".

As Robert pointed out, the DNCD has many internal problems, and without knowing the entire background and intent of this operation, one can not judge if this was simply a show for the press, a raid against rivals, or the real deal.

The use of the shotgun makes sense, and might have been used to project shock grenades or tear gas. The tactics seemed well planned and executed.

The bottom line is, we don't know enough to make a thoughtful judgment about the motives or intention of the raid, but the tactics seemed decent, and the officers showed bravery in the face of fire. All-in-all, it seemed like a lot of trouble for only marginal results, that I could see.
 

Vacara

I love AZB!
May 5, 2009
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If the amount of the seized drugs that are shown indicates anything, it seems like a fairly large operation for not much of an end result. Also it seems as though the operation was carried out as a drag-net. It is unclear if all those arrested were actual suspects, or just some "collateral catch".

As Robert pointed out, the DNCD has many internal problems, and without knowing the entire background and intent of this operation, one can not judge if this was simply a show for the press, a raid against rivals, or the real deal.

The use of the shotgun makes sense, and might have been used to project shock grenades or tear gas. The tactics seemed well planned and executed.

The bottom line is, we don't know enough to make a thoughtful judgment about the motives or intention of the raid, but the tactics seemed decent, and the officers showed bravery in the face of fire. All-in-all, it seemed like a lot of trouble for only marginal results, that I could see.

Fair assessment, lot of bread and no meat, but I think part of their mission is to keep the bad guys in check, not letting them feel too comfy.
 

ben jammin

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2007
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Fair assessment, lot of bread and no meat, but I think part of their mission is to keep the bad guys in check, not letting them feel too comfy.
more than likely it will only spawn more violence from the baddies. looking for the snitch or rival gang they think outed them, getting their 10yr old cousin/brother to run their product instead. i am not belittling the brave action of policia but they are fighting a losing battle in a lost war. just mho
 

Vacara

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May 5, 2009
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more than likely it will only spawn more violence from the baddies. looking for the snitch or rival gang they think outed them, getting their 10yr old cousin/brother to run their product instead. i am not belittling the brave action of policia but they are fighting a losing battle in a lost war. just mho

So what should they do?, let the "Tigueres" run the whole society?.
 

heldengebroed

Bronze
Mar 9, 2005
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As for tactics
The best choise of weapon for a raid as this is something like the minimi short muzzle and relative small calibre set to 1 shot at the time
extremely good trained officers like belgian Diane or british SAS

1 shot 1 kill

Most importantis to block cell phone use in the barrio for the duration of the raid
Greetings
Johan
 

Vacara

I love AZB!
May 5, 2009
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As for tactics
The best choise of weapon for a raid as this is something like the minimi short muzzle and relative small calibre set to 1 shot at the time
extremely good trained officers like belgian Diane or british SAS

1 shot 1 kill

Most importantis to block cell phone use in the barrio for the duration of the raid
Greetings
Johan

Great idea.
 

suarezn

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Feb 3, 2002
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This was mostly for show, because the cameras were rolling.

Look, there are some honest cops just like anywhere, but the fact is that the cops know exactly who and where the drugs are dealt. They are involved from the smallest micro-trafficker to the huge loads being dropped by plane every night all over the island. They provide protection to the dealers and help them take out rivals who don't pay or pay less.

I don't even blame the cops either as they are risking their lives for a pittance of a salary. They charge a dealer about 30k pesos to maintain a "punto" of which a small percentage is theirs (the bulk of it goes up the chain to the coronels and generals). So easy to take advantage of this situation that it is almost impossible to remain honest.
 
May 5, 2007
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I noticed a few M 16's and two shotguns, the shotguns "Appeared" to be firing at a 15o or so elevation, something usually done with gas or explosive rounds. It was really appalling to see an assault situation where most of the"good guys" were using side arms, that is unheard of

I'm a little shocked at the "underwhelming" force these guys are trying to do a job with, and apparent lack of training (Why couldn't any of the Police figure out to shoot out that stupid light bulb that kept exposing them) and the end result sure didn't justify the expenditure of lives

It is easy for me to criticize at home and not be on the front line, but personally I think one 500# cluster fuc* would have solved the whole problem

Good job guys
 
No, They should legalize and regulate drug use. And no we will not stop saying this until people get it. This is exactly what the current war on drugs causes. There is no way to win this war.

So by your way of thinking,you should have just stopped and gave them your car in Puerto Plata when you thought they were robbing you. Its a war we cant win so just give them your car.
 
Mar 2, 2008
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"So by your way of thinking,you should have just stopped and gave them your car in Puerto Plata when you thought they were robbing you. Its a war we cant win so just give them your car."
BadPiece

Respectfully, these are two absolutely different situations. I am not a proponent of legalizing drugs, but if I wanted to argue the point, I wouldn't use a completely abstract and disconnected set of circumstances to justify the criminalization of drugs. These are two separate and distinct issues.

Car jacking, or however one chooses to describe the event at POP, is something totally different and apart from the issues involved with the drug trade. It makes no sense to compare the two crimes, and only serves to personalize a debate that should remain objective.
 

Vacara

I love AZB!
May 5, 2009
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This was mostly for show, because the cameras were rolling.

Look, there are some honest cops just like anywhere, but the fact is that the cops know exactly who and where the drugs are dealt. They are involved from the smallest micro-trafficker to the huge loads being dropped by plane every night all over the island. They provide protection to the dealers and help them take out rivals who don't pay or pay less.

I don't even blame the cops either as they are risking their lives for a pittance of a salary. They charge a dealer about 30k pesos to maintain a "punto" of which a small percentage is theirs (the bulk of it goes up the chain to the coronels and generals). So easy to take advantage of this situation that it is almost impossible to remain honest.

So how do you know all this?, how sure are you that the cops are getting 30k just to maintain a point?, do you own a point?, do you have inside information or you are just repeating what's been in 2 millions different mouths before your?
 

Vacara

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May 5, 2009
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No, They should legalize and regulate drug use. And no we will not stop saying this until people get it. This is exactly what the current war on drugs causes. There is no way to win this war.

Isn't that sickening?, don't you have kids you should care about?, don't you know anybody who's in risk of falling into such a destructive addiction?.

Some guys here are wackos.