All of you will have to excuse me as I am going out of town early tomorrow morning for a week to attend the party in Sosua and sightseeing. Everybody behave and I'll talk to all next week.
Rick
Rick
- Thread starter Chris
- Start date
2 years to go.
Education is the key.
Have a good time, Rick. 4th of July Bash at Rocky's in your itinerary?
Getting back to the gist of the thread, the key to the DR's myriad of problems and deficiencies is EDUCATION, EDUCATION, EDUCATION!
Those of us that have been fortunate enough to have been educated and brought up in the First World have a different attitude and outlook that those that have never been able to get out of this Third World system. The same applies for those that have received a 'proper' education within the DR. By proper I mean in good private schools and universities.
Things will start changing for the better with the increased opportunities of better education both domestically and internationally. That is, the improvement of the public education system (a tough and big job) and the increased access to private education.
Have a good time, Rick. 4th of July Bash at Rocky's in your itinerary?
Getting back to the gist of the thread, the key to the DR's myriad of problems and deficiencies is EDUCATION, EDUCATION, EDUCATION!
Those of us that have been fortunate enough to have been educated and brought up in the First World have a different attitude and outlook that those that have never been able to get out of this Third World system. The same applies for those that have received a 'proper' education within the DR. By proper I mean in good private schools and universities.
Things will start changing for the better with the increased opportunities of better education both domestically and internationally. That is, the improvement of the public education system (a tough and big job) and the increased access to private education.
Current corruption problem is "undermining" a long lasting democracy
You mention "big time, a long lasting democracy, as we perceive it today, in the Dominican Republic" - how long do you consider this 'Long Lasting' democracy has been going on here? 100 years?? 200 years?
The way I see it, democracy started, to the point it is today in 1996, not 100 years or 200 years ago, that much history I know. The point is, as I said, that if open corruption continue unpunished it will "undermine" "big time" the establishment of a long lasting democracy in the Dominican Republic.
Meaning that the Dominican people, may eventually, get sick and tired of this system we call Democracy. In another words, democracy as we perceive it today it may never become a long "lasting democracy".
You mention "big time, a long lasting democracy, as we perceive it today, in the Dominican Republic" - how long do you consider this 'Long Lasting' democracy has been going on here? 100 years?? 200 years?
The way I see it, democracy started, to the point it is today in 1996, not 100 years or 200 years ago, that much history I know. The point is, as I said, that if open corruption continue unpunished it will "undermine" "big time" the establishment of a long lasting democracy in the Dominican Republic.
Meaning that the Dominican people, may eventually, get sick and tired of this system we call Democracy. In another words, democracy as we perceive it today it may never become a long "lasting democracy".
Let see what will materialize!
The Far East nations, primarily China, are targeting the cheaper natural resources of Latin America. Those 50 millions and the other 250 millions are Taiwan's budgetary allocations for investment into Latin America to get a pathway to penetrate the USA's market and for an incentives to their industries to invest in Latin America.
President, Chen Sui Bian of Taiwan Free Trade agreement with Latin nations is to geographically get Taiwan goods closer to the USA's market.
Just out of curiosity, can you tell me what are those exports that DR will sale to Taiwan?
L.F. paid vacation, justify by the sale presentation will remain as a vacation paid by the Dominican tax payers pending positive materialized results.
By-the-way, L.F. is just competing for those moneys mentioned above. However, without being too pesimist, I really hope we (DR) can get some of that money and create some desperately needed jobs for the Dominican's lacking labor market. I see you're reading DR1's news, don't believe everything you read! :surprised
aegap said:
The Far East nations, primarily China, are targeting the cheaper natural resources of Latin America. Those 50 millions and the other 250 millions are Taiwan's budgetary allocations for investment into Latin America to get a pathway to penetrate the USA's market and for an incentives to their industries to invest in Latin America.
President, Chen Sui Bian of Taiwan Free Trade agreement with Latin nations is to geographically get Taiwan goods closer to the USA's market.
Just out of curiosity, can you tell me what are those exports that DR will sale to Taiwan?
L.F. paid vacation, justify by the sale presentation will remain as a vacation paid by the Dominican tax payers pending positive materialized results.
By-the-way, L.F. is just competing for those moneys mentioned above. However, without being too pesimist, I really hope we (DR) can get some of that money and create some desperately needed jobs for the Dominican's lacking labor market. I see you're reading DR1's news, don't believe everything you read! :surprised
rtejada:
You, undoubtably wish for a change in the way the Dominican Government functions or doesn't function. Your many disjointed posts would reflect that desire. The main problem with you is that you don't offer any solutions other than criticism for the existing form used here.
I would ask the same questions of you that others have voiced:
1) How would you go about changing the existing system?
2) What methods would you employ to bring about those changes?
3) What form of government would you substitute for the Democracy you are so against. Would you replace the existing Republic with a Dictatorship, a Monarchy, a System of Anarchy wherein there is NO Government at all?
4) What form would your proposed "road map" (ie, Constitution) of Government take? Or, would you forego any system of a "Law of the Land" in favor of a day to day reorientation of government responding to the day to day demands of the population?
5) Would the Ruling Administration be by Committee? By a Single Individual making the decisions of International Trade Administration and control of the business community in accordance with those needs?
Thus far you have given no indication that you are qualified to make any of those decisions with any degree of competence, foresight or consistency.
All you have done is criticise the current administration in their efforts to effect the economic recovery of the nation.
We, on this board, have given you chance after chance to make your agenda known through discussion of those agenda in open forum. So far, you have refused to cooperate in that effort and that act alone leads me to believe that your sole purpose is to attempt to spread discord through false allegations, fallacious reasoning and outright antagonism through obnoxious commentary and vitroilic statements designed only to antagonize.
Be advised that hereafter, unless you begin to express yourself in a gentlemanly fashion, debate the questions intelligently, and desist from bellicose language and meanings, your days are numbered on this, or any other segment of DR1.
Now, unless you wish to be ostracised and cast out, get your act together.
Texas Bill
P.S.
Your last post is a littlle more in line with the norm here. I, like others, would really like to see a little better grammar and word usage. You claim to be educated. Evidently you didn't put much effort into the subject of English grammar and spelling.
TB
You, undoubtably wish for a change in the way the Dominican Government functions or doesn't function. Your many disjointed posts would reflect that desire. The main problem with you is that you don't offer any solutions other than criticism for the existing form used here.
I would ask the same questions of you that others have voiced:
1) How would you go about changing the existing system?
2) What methods would you employ to bring about those changes?
3) What form of government would you substitute for the Democracy you are so against. Would you replace the existing Republic with a Dictatorship, a Monarchy, a System of Anarchy wherein there is NO Government at all?
4) What form would your proposed "road map" (ie, Constitution) of Government take? Or, would you forego any system of a "Law of the Land" in favor of a day to day reorientation of government responding to the day to day demands of the population?
5) Would the Ruling Administration be by Committee? By a Single Individual making the decisions of International Trade Administration and control of the business community in accordance with those needs?
Thus far you have given no indication that you are qualified to make any of those decisions with any degree of competence, foresight or consistency.
All you have done is criticise the current administration in their efforts to effect the economic recovery of the nation.
We, on this board, have given you chance after chance to make your agenda known through discussion of those agenda in open forum. So far, you have refused to cooperate in that effort and that act alone leads me to believe that your sole purpose is to attempt to spread discord through false allegations, fallacious reasoning and outright antagonism through obnoxious commentary and vitroilic statements designed only to antagonize.
Be advised that hereafter, unless you begin to express yourself in a gentlemanly fashion, debate the questions intelligently, and desist from bellicose language and meanings, your days are numbered on this, or any other segment of DR1.
Now, unless you wish to be ostracised and cast out, get your act together.
Texas Bill
P.S.
Your last post is a littlle more in line with the norm here. I, like others, would really like to see a little better grammar and word usage. You claim to be educated. Evidently you didn't put much effort into the subject of English grammar and spelling.
TB
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dr1,
Taiwanese interest in Santiago
Fernandez, the DR's best salesman
Want take a guess on how many Taiwanese professors work at ITLA, where a very significant amount of the fund to build it came from?
dr1 during Leonel's first term,
Wanna guess how much Taiwanese investor are investing in the Santo Domingo CyberPark, PCSD?
rtejeda said:
Taiwanese interest in Santiago
Fernandez, the DR's best salesman
Want take a guess on how many Taiwanese professors work at ITLA, where a very significant amount of the fund to build it came from?
dr1 during Leonel's first term,
Wanna guess how much Taiwanese investor are investing in the Santo Domingo CyberPark, PCSD?
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More about the Stevens Institute of Technology of the Americas (SITTA),
http://www.stevens-tech.edu/press/pr/pr472.htm
http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/news/newsbyid.asp?id=26276,
About the Stevens Institute of Technology
ITLA
http://www.stevens-tech.edu/press/pr/pr472.htm
http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/news/newsbyid.asp?id=26276,
About the Stevens Institute of Technology
ITLA
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Guys, you have let/helped rtejeda hijack this thread. Let's get back to the main topic, eradicating corruption and promoting good governance. :tired: :tired:
Looking for the light.
First mistake is going to school with the attitude that you are looking for a way to end up with a good job and therefore security.
You should be acquiring an education for the purpose of being able to communicate intelligently with other people, being able to express yourself in the written word, being able to understand your surroundings by means of your ability to read the written word and to have the ability to solve problems encountered in everyday life.
If in the process of acquiring this education it leads to a better job then that is just another benefit of said education. If it doesn't then the education, regardless of its quality, should give you a better chance at survival then those that have decided to ignore the opportunity of an education which is out there for everyone.
Just food for thought.
Rick
First mistake is going to school with the attitude that you are looking for a way to end up with a good job and therefore security.
You should be acquiring an education for the purpose of being able to communicate intelligently with other people, being able to express yourself in the written word, being able to understand your surroundings by means of your ability to read the written word and to have the ability to solve problems encountered in everyday life.
If in the process of acquiring this education it leads to a better job then that is just another benefit of said education. If it doesn't then the education, regardless of its quality, should give you a better chance at survival then those that have decided to ignore the opportunity of an education which is out there for everyone.
Just food for thought.
Rick
Rick, I dont completely agree with your angle on this. You and I see the beauty in education as a means of personal development; however, I am sure most Dominicans dont.
I rather the Labor economics point of view. Education is an investment. Even if its free, there is always opportunity cost (the money you could be earning if you werent in school).
So the end of the light, i.e. jobs, should atleast compensate for the opportunity cost (more if you spent on private school).
None of these Dominicans in need of education see it as a means to communicate intelligently. They see it as a way to improve their living standards. Humans work on incentives.
Bilijou: "None of these Dominicans in need of education see it as a means to communicate intelligently. They see it as a way to improve their living standards."
Part of the problem. If DR had teachers that love to teach, instead of 'botellas', there would be students who love to learn. For the sake of learning.
The "good life" is different for everyone, but only a good liberal education (per Greek definition) can lead to self-realization -- whatever mode it takes. Without it, only the Hollywood/TV/HipHop modes are sought.
Less bureaurats in education, more lovers of learning (who often will teach for free, so throwing money at education often is a disincentive).
Part of the problem. If DR had teachers that love to teach, instead of 'botellas', there would be students who love to learn. For the sake of learning.
The "good life" is different for everyone, but only a good liberal education (per Greek definition) can lead to self-realization -- whatever mode it takes. Without it, only the Hollywood/TV/HipHop modes are sought.
Less bureaurats in education, more lovers of learning (who often will teach for free, so throwing money at education often is a disincentive).
Education is life long and is called experience. School is where you should learn at an early age the love of learning, but not all things are enjoyable to learn.The zest to aquire knowledge, although natural in some people, is something that a true teacher can teach to a child. I would agree that most people see school( not education by my definition) as a means to aquire the necessary tools to get a decent jobs. This is a truism, it is a tool in the toolbox of survival. What is missing, at least in Dominican High school is encouragement of critical thinking, something that is encouraged at an early age here in Canada.
Tuan and Bob,
OK, Education.
Once again, I agree, an education system that will teach their student the love of learning would be ideal, but is it likely?
If you sit down 1-on-1 with a student, you CAN teach them the love of learning. However, we are trying to mass produce them.
In the typical classroom in the US, I would say at most 25% of the students will develop this love of learning. The rest are up to Hollywood, Hip Hop, etc.
In the advanced capitalism mindset, people will take the route which is most ECONOMICALLY advantageous to them. The drugdealers sitting outside my building would rather "tons of money now" than "love of learning with the possibility of earning money in the distant future."
When I say "there is no light at the end of the tunnel", I'm referring to the fact that success of any education system depends on the labor markets. Today, an economist, Ayacx Mercedes, commented about the labor markets in DR (link). Despite 12.6% GDP growth, only low salary jobs have been created. In fact, the Employment-GDP ratio decreased to a historic low from 0.67% to 0.22% in this trimester.
In this survival mentality, why would someone go through higher education if they are not going to use it?
I know, it shouldnt be like that, but can we keep it real?
OK, Education.
Once again, I agree, an education system that will teach their student the love of learning would be ideal, but is it likely?
If you sit down 1-on-1 with a student, you CAN teach them the love of learning. However, we are trying to mass produce them.
In the typical classroom in the US, I would say at most 25% of the students will develop this love of learning. The rest are up to Hollywood, Hip Hop, etc.
In the advanced capitalism mindset, people will take the route which is most ECONOMICALLY advantageous to them. The drugdealers sitting outside my building would rather "tons of money now" than "love of learning with the possibility of earning money in the distant future."
When I say "there is no light at the end of the tunnel", I'm referring to the fact that success of any education system depends on the labor markets. Today, an economist, Ayacx Mercedes, commented about the labor markets in DR (link). Despite 12.6% GDP growth, only low salary jobs have been created. In fact, the Employment-GDP ratio decreased to a historic low from 0.67% to 0.22% in this trimester.
In this survival mentality, why would someone go through higher education if they are not going to use it?
I know, it shouldnt be like that, but can we keep it real?
In a society like the DR, as well as other countries where the economy isn't doing well, a person with a good education and a good brain can create their own job. If you have the mentality that the government is to create the job for you, you will stagnate and be under employed for your qualifications. This happens all over the world. I know a number of Dominicans, my wife and brother-in-law for example, that decided that in order to be sucessful, they would have to create their own business. My wife started off tutoring at night, while teaching in a catholic school during the day. She bought a piece of land in a good area in Jarabacoa and built the first floor of her school. She employed 3 teachers, two of them former students. She set the standards higher than the local school but had to keep her prices low as most of her clients were poor. As her reputation grew so did her school. When she had the money she expanded to 2 floors, then 3 floors. She now employs more than 20 teachers. Her brother has a sucessful internet cafe and electronic repair business. There many other examples of poor dominican pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, getting an education, using their brains and creating a sucessful future for themselves.
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Bob,
I'm glad you're participating in this forum.
I'm happy this discussion took this turn. You are absolutely right, Dominicans shouldnt only rely on jobs created by the government trade policies.
Your wife and brother-in-law are entrepeneurs. Many economists (those who follow the Austrian School of economics) focus on entrepeneurs rather than on the over-reliance of human behaviour on the market system as means to generate wealth. I agree with them.
Sorry to give you the Economics B-S (I dont know how many readers are economists themselves).
Unfortunately, in countries like DR it is a billion times harder. Developed countries, like the US, make it super easy for anyone to create a business and this is why there is so much business here. At age 18, I created my own company in NY (dont ask, not succesful), the registration only took ONE day.
One of the biggest criticisms of developed countries, is that they dont make it easy to create or operate businesses. In DR this registration would take more than a year. So, on the institutional approach (top-down), this needs to be fixed before expecting the situation I mentioned before to change.
Back to education. Entrepeneurship requires a certain personality, and on a country level, a certain culture. In this thread, I've proposed the need for a change in culture. You need to be competitive, ambitious, risktaking (therefore, cant be a pessimist), hardworker, organized, etc.
I dont think that all of this is acquired by an education.
This doesnt mean that Dominicans arent entrepeneurs, on the sides of highways all you see is people creating their own jobs, selling goods and services. However, I find that they dont take it to the next level. They dont save up money, hire some people and make it a chain of chimichurry stands. Of the BEST chimichurry stand.
I'm glad you're participating in this forum.
I'm happy this discussion took this turn. You are absolutely right, Dominicans shouldnt only rely on jobs created by the government trade policies.
Your wife and brother-in-law are entrepeneurs. Many economists (those who follow the Austrian School of economics) focus on entrepeneurs rather than on the over-reliance of human behaviour on the market system as means to generate wealth. I agree with them.
Sorry to give you the Economics B-S (I dont know how many readers are economists themselves).
Unfortunately, in countries like DR it is a billion times harder. Developed countries, like the US, make it super easy for anyone to create a business and this is why there is so much business here. At age 18, I created my own company in NY (dont ask, not succesful), the registration only took ONE day.
One of the biggest criticisms of developed countries, is that they dont make it easy to create or operate businesses. In DR this registration would take more than a year. So, on the institutional approach (top-down), this needs to be fixed before expecting the situation I mentioned before to change.
Back to education. Entrepeneurship requires a certain personality, and on a country level, a certain culture. In this thread, I've proposed the need for a change in culture. You need to be competitive, ambitious, risktaking (therefore, cant be a pessimist), hardworker, organized, etc.
I dont think that all of this is acquired by an education.
This doesnt mean that Dominicans arent entrepeneurs, on the sides of highways all you see is people creating their own jobs, selling goods and services. However, I find that they dont take it to the next level. They dont save up money, hire some people and make it a chain of chimichurry stands. Of the BEST chimichurry stand.
I am experiencing a failure to communicate that which I wish to express. This is partially due to the fact that I’m sitting here in Rocky’s Bar loaded with people and I’m not on my own computer. I will therefore have to wait till I get back home next weekend to respond to this thread as it is very interesting and important in my opinion and we have some interesting responses being posted by some interesting individuals. Till next week.
Rick
Rick
Bilijou, it's marvelous to hear you agree with the Austrian School.
Accordingly you should also agree that entrepeneurism is a natural human trait which socialism (populistm, clientism, fascism) inhibits through popular disincentives. [i.e., why get all a##-h and elbows involved in something creative when you can sit on your a##, bitch and whine and wait for a power broker to take from someone else and drop it in your lap?]
Botellas teaching in the schools press the disincentive case pretty thoroughly, as does a citizen's natural conclusions drawn from the huge "nomina" at the public trough.
The ultimate consequence of this is described to a gnat's eyebrow by the great Austrian economist Ludwig von Mises in his highly readable book "Bureaucracy". Check it out.
The only way out really does start with individuals (teachers formal and informal) at the bottom of the pyramid, propagating the love of learning.
Accordingly you should also agree that entrepeneurism is a natural human trait which socialism (populistm, clientism, fascism) inhibits through popular disincentives. [i.e., why get all a##-h and elbows involved in something creative when you can sit on your a##, bitch and whine and wait for a power broker to take from someone else and drop it in your lap?]
Botellas teaching in the schools press the disincentive case pretty thoroughly, as does a citizen's natural conclusions drawn from the huge "nomina" at the public trough.
The ultimate consequence of this is described to a gnat's eyebrow by the great Austrian economist Ludwig von Mises in his highly readable book "Bureaucracy". Check it out.
The only way out really does start with individuals (teachers formal and informal) at the bottom of the pyramid, propagating the love of learning.