Greasing palms is part of life here ...this not unique to the DR as it happens in dozens of other countries and if you want to have a comfortable life you go with the flow...we are only half as bad as India for example .
- Thread starter Buzz65
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Bribing is the norm - Pay or Don't play
If I understand you correctly then paying bribes here is OK because it is cheaper than other countries? I guess that's one way to look at it.
Digging around?? This flag makes me question if you are a cruiser. Checking into the DR costs $75.00 US and includes a 90 day cruising permit. Each person aboard will also pay for a tourist card. For Despacho will cost you $20.00 for the Navy to clear you.out. There is also a $20.00 charge should a crew member leave the vessel to fly out. No big deal. Tips? If you wish to not have issues, slide the Comandante 500 pesos. $12.50 or so US. No big deal as this is looked at as simple respect. Don't do this, and you.could be there awhile. How much is 500 pesos going to hurt your cruising kitty? If it is "unheard of", then you shouldn't have left port in the first place. The Bahamas will cost.you $300.00US. Trinidad will trash your boat while you are outside at gunpoint and anything they want, they will take. Columbia use to be the same although it has gotten much better. Sailors in the know understand how to deal with situations like this, and those that don't should stay home. I've checked into the DR more times then I can count. Before I was married to a Dominicana, I use to not speak Spanish too them, because I wanted to know what they were thinking. Just watching out for myself. I also keep a big bag of change down below and if I'm in a bad situation checking into a country and they are trying to separate me from all of my money, I bring it out and start counting quarters. They will leave because they do not want change. Use your head, be respectful, pay the pocket change needed in order to have an excellent stay and move on. It's easy. Some tips.for you. On the north coast, check into Oceanworld and don't go to the Govt. dock to check in under any circumstances or you will be sorry. Samana is easy in and easy.out. Punta Cana and Luperon is easy as well but if you are.going to leave your boat unattended in Luperon, make sure and pay someone from the Marine Guerra to keep an eye out and you will be good. Stay out of La Romana and Boca Chica on the south shore or have a bag of change handy and be ready to count quarters to get them off of your boat. If they jam you up leaving and say the weather is bad when it's not, slide 500 pesos to the guy and tell him "Soy bueno Capitan y sabes tiempo". He will let you leave. This information is for Gringos. I'm married to a Dominicana and now I don't even deal with them except to sign documents. She takes care of everything and I don't have any issues. Bottom line is that these people are poor. Dirt poor and get paid squat to do their job. Don't be a dick, give them some pocket change, and have the time of your life in the DR. It's a great adventure for a boatie and the people are excellent. I pulled.into Oceanworld and requested a line handler on the radio to dock. There were two there. I paid each a $10.00 bill and got my boat washed with their water. They talked to the officials when coming aboard, and it was one of the smoothest entries I'd ever done. I've found that if you are a decent person amd treat people respectfully, that things go good. Be a snooty stuck up gringo who is above these peasants, and you will get what you put out. Last is that the DR isn't near as bad as many countries and islands I have checked into. They are just more direct and will ask where others will give you BS lies about the "new laws". Hope you don't take this wrong. Just straight talk from a marinar who knows.
...in the barrio were a girl frens mother lives , the police are openly in charge of the drug points..........
This is the life here... they are just trying to feed their families.or drink a beer... what's the big deal.. look at it this way the police here are the judge pay them and be on your way .Think about it they make less than two hundred buck a month what would you do? its the culture and its not going to change.
Bribes, sobornos, or whatever you want to call them are just wrong. If you choose to participate in that crap, then you are just as bad or even worse than the party who is making the offer because you should know better. This crap about them being poor and just trying to feed their family is just away for some folks to justify paying the bribes. The frigging robbers and stickup artists are trying to feed their family also aren't they? Why not justify that? Is it because they are a little bit more direct by putting a gun or knife to your face and scaring the crap out of you?
The climate of uncertainty of fairness within the justice system is limiting the country's development. Why would the Govt pay the cops more when they appear to be perfectly capable of extorting additional money from the citizenry? The willingness of the people to participate in this scheme because it's usually only a few hundred pesos at a time, is a part of the problem not any sort of solution. VIP process payments are simply an institutionalized form of inducement given a softer less contentious name. Every person should be able to receive the same efficient level of service from the Govt. without having to pay extra for it. Let me tell you in no uncertain terms, most locals do not pay bribes - revolving door chicas excepted. These "gifts" are mostly solicited from foreigners and well known repeat offenders; Especially those short time foreign visitors who it is assumed won't be around long enough to protest much. Just by looking an official can't tell a tourist from a resident.
The seemingly accepted pervasiveness of small time corruption lays the ground work for larger scale corruption. Corruption that festers unchecked brings about more of the same. Just like the life-cycle of a mosquito, to prevent disease, you have the interrupt the cycle at some stage. For the full time resident the opportunity to have the most positive impact is at the roadside shakedown, at the service window or where cash seems to be a quicker end run around a delay.
When one develops the attitude of acceptance and acquiescence to this filth, they are in fact a part of the problem and make it much tougher for others who do not believe this behavior is something worth promoting. Of course the position of the official is to create a situation where it is much easier to just pay than to opt for the alternative. As I have said before, everyone has to make their own decisions. If you accept being a victim you are helping to ensure that you will be a victim again as well as insuring that others find themselves in the same predicament.
It can be a major inconvenience to take a stand no doubt. It will cost you time, possibly more money that the original bribe, but the end result can be that you become known as being too much trouble to bother with since you will push back - still lots of other easier fish in the sea to fry. With respect to dealing with the police - All local legal issues except for the most serious of offenses are first dealt with at the local level with the local Fiscal. It is very easy and relatively cheap to stand in front of the Fiscal with your lawyer and demand that the official involved justify either the charge, the ticket or the accusation with evidence. Most of the cops bank on virtually no foreigner being prepared to stand up for themselves. When you do, the cops lose every time you mention that you were asked for money. I have yet to see or hear of any instance where the local Fiscal has supported open corruption. Cops know better than to be caught lying to the Fiscal. A unsupportable claim is always withdrawn or dismissed before either you or your lawyer have the opportunity to level an accusation of impropriety.
I know the system can work, I've seen it work. I'm not sure I can say it always works but for a stupid shakedown it does. If you don't have a triangle in your car, take the ticket and pay it. Giving a lesser amount to the cop just encourages them to do it again. When it is no longer advantageous and easy to extort money they will go on strike and get the Govt to provide a living wage. Not today, tomorrow or next week, but in due course. Currently it is way too easy and profitable to accept under-the-table-cash.
When you make it profitable to be corrupt, you have to accept your part in that corruption and expect others who do not wish to conduct their affairs this way, to be reluctant to overlook your part in their ongoing dilemma. I understand you may not wish to be a social activist attempting to bring about radical change, but the least you can do is not make the situation worse solely for your own convenience especially if you already know that you have done wrong and are looking to lessen the cost of that choice. Where I stand, that is just as much of a crime as asking for the payment.
This is intended to be a one sided editorial. Minor league crims and selfcentred individuals are expected to feel differently and should not feel compelled to offer further incriminating justifications, unless you really want to.
The seemingly accepted pervasiveness of small time corruption lays the ground work for larger scale corruption. Corruption that festers unchecked brings about more of the same. Just like the life-cycle of a mosquito, to prevent disease, you have the interrupt the cycle at some stage. For the full time resident the opportunity to have the most positive impact is at the roadside shakedown, at the service window or where cash seems to be a quicker end run around a delay.
When one develops the attitude of acceptance and acquiescence to this filth, they are in fact a part of the problem and make it much tougher for others who do not believe this behavior is something worth promoting. Of course the position of the official is to create a situation where it is much easier to just pay than to opt for the alternative. As I have said before, everyone has to make their own decisions. If you accept being a victim you are helping to ensure that you will be a victim again as well as insuring that others find themselves in the same predicament.
It can be a major inconvenience to take a stand no doubt. It will cost you time, possibly more money that the original bribe, but the end result can be that you become known as being too much trouble to bother with since you will push back - still lots of other easier fish in the sea to fry. With respect to dealing with the police - All local legal issues except for the most serious of offenses are first dealt with at the local level with the local Fiscal. It is very easy and relatively cheap to stand in front of the Fiscal with your lawyer and demand that the official involved justify either the charge, the ticket or the accusation with evidence. Most of the cops bank on virtually no foreigner being prepared to stand up for themselves. When you do, the cops lose every time you mention that you were asked for money. I have yet to see or hear of any instance where the local Fiscal has supported open corruption. Cops know better than to be caught lying to the Fiscal. A unsupportable claim is always withdrawn or dismissed before either you or your lawyer have the opportunity to level an accusation of impropriety.
I know the system can work, I've seen it work. I'm not sure I can say it always works but for a stupid shakedown it does. If you don't have a triangle in your car, take the ticket and pay it. Giving a lesser amount to the cop just encourages them to do it again. When it is no longer advantageous and easy to extort money they will go on strike and get the Govt to provide a living wage. Not today, tomorrow or next week, but in due course. Currently it is way too easy and profitable to accept under-the-table-cash.
When you make it profitable to be corrupt, you have to accept your part in that corruption and expect others who do not wish to conduct their affairs this way, to be reluctant to overlook your part in their ongoing dilemma. I understand you may not wish to be a social activist attempting to bring about radical change, but the least you can do is not make the situation worse solely for your own convenience especially if you already know that you have done wrong and are looking to lessen the cost of that choice. Where I stand, that is just as much of a crime as asking for the payment.
This is intended to be a one sided editorial. Minor league crims and selfcentred individuals are expected to feel differently and should not feel compelled to offer further incriminating justifications, unless you really want to.
While your post has merit overall, how many times and how many countries have you visited by boat? Gifts and propina are viewed as normal within the community. Some go over the top while others do not. Have you ever took a stand for your beliefs and for "what was the right thing to do for the better good of humanity"? How about being held outside by armed men while your boat is being literally trashed? Do you realize that Customs in all countries has the right to kick you off of your boat and hold it "for further inspection"? The topic the OP posted is not limited to the DR and as I stated earlier, some countries are much worse. I've had a customs official in TCI tell me after spending 4k US for a haul out that I was going to give him 2k US, or he was going to impound my boat. Are you going to fight this because it's the right thing to do paying the yard fees and legal cost including hotel because they just impounded your house or slip his boss $500.00 to make it go away. In Boca Chica, Marina Zar Par is where you check in. You either pay their propina, or you will not get checked in. Very simple means of extortion. If you leave your boat, you will be arrested for being illegal and you can't just leave either because you have entered a DR port. So what would you do? An incoming boatie doesn't know anyone to call. You're stuck. Maybe if the DR Govt. Paid government employees a living wage things would be different, but saying that they don't because they know they are extorting money from doing their job shows government corruption at the highest levels. So how do you change that in any country including Canada and the US? From a boatie perspective you learn how to deal with it and minimize it. We all have our stories and share amongst ourselves to better understand where to go, and where not to. Same holds true for Anchorage safety.
My apologies jstarebel, I completely forgot about the boating reference in the OP and have no practical experience from a boating perspective.
Ok don"t pay and see what happens......let me know how that works out for you
Paying a bribe is frequently the best possible option with the most favorable outcome. And so it goes.
Ok don"t pay and see what happens......let me know how that works out for you
Yup. That's one of the reasons why this country is in the situation that it's in currently. I'll take my chances by not paying and am willing to deal with the outcome.
I was stopped and ticketed in Higuey last year for no seatbelt ; Cop asked me where I was going, and if I would return. I told him yes, as I was just going to the bus stop. Upon my return, he flagged me down and got into the car. Asked me for the ticket that he had issued me. Looked at the ticket, looked at me; several minutes passed of me being the stupid gringo. In the end, he realized that he would get nowhere with me, tore the ticket up and departed.
You really believe what you wrote.... how about the government paying a decent wage... plus we are talking a few peso not a thousand dollars. I definitely want to know how that works out for you.. when they start making up charges and drive you down that dark dirt road...
I once asked a couple of cops where the road to the beach was in Sosua. It is to say the least a bit confusing to get there. They asked me to follow them on their motorcycle. I had my truck. When we got there they toldme that thyey have to pay for gas in their own motorcycle and could I give them something for that. I told him to his face that I didn't believe that and offered hi 70 pesos which he rejected.
Wooo. I am so scared.
I have been stopped before and have never offered a bribe. The government should offer a decent living wage. I do agree with that. The willingness to pay a bribe is on the individual. Whosoever wants to do that has a choice to do so or not to, but I choose not to. My point is a simple one. When does the bribing stop? A few pesos or a million dollars. It's so ridiculously ingrained in the culture. I know of government workers who are fearful that bribes will be offered to them and by them saying no, are fearful that they would be labeled the bad guy or the troublemaker. Again, to each his own. I choose not to.Been there before and nothing happened. They even called el colonel, I stuck to my line..by saying "I speak no Spanish", even though I speak fluent Spanish, and was let go. The Dominican guy who was with us did pay because he did not have his cedula. But, that was his choice. He knew better than to not have his cedula on him at night.
Paying a bribe is not the norm. Asking for one or expecting to receive one is another matter. The vast majority of those who are offering up cash when it is requested are foreigners or those in compromised legal situations. Most have done something to peak the interest of the official and an inducement is usually offered as a means to an expedited or more favorable conclusion. The innate fear of a dodgy justice system or a complex process is usually enough to get one to consider paying. If paying a simple ticket takes 10 hours and three different stops, I'd consider paying too, if I wasn't so successful in not doing anything worthy of getting a ticket in the first place.
It''s fairly hypocritical to lambaste the country for being corrupt and then offering up cash whenever it is expedient to do so.
It''s fairly hypocritical to lambaste the country for being corrupt and then offering up cash whenever it is expedient to do so.