Carnival Cruise Lines - Port in Maimon

[IslandDreaming]

Again, I am first to admit I know little of the cruise ship industry, but have had the pleasure of visiting some of their ports of call. Have Hamilton, St. George, Royal Navy Dockyard, Limon, St. John, Montego Bay, St. George and dozens of others all been destroyed by cruise ships? I just don’t grasp the negative aspect of this I don’t for one second believe the people of the North Coast will benefit on par with Carnival, but I would think some positive result will be forthcoming

One of the things I have seen from the noted ports, the countries try to use the experience the passengers have to get them to return for extended vacations to their destinations I know several people who have been to Limon and St George that have remarked that the enjoyed the visit and would like to see more of the country

 

[dv8]

indeed, any new jobs and initiatives will be good but i think it is wiser to "hope for the best and expect the worst". some politicians here in POP make it sound like a second coming of christ. they need to calm down, wait and see.

 

[IslandDreaming]

indeed, any new jobs and initiatives will be good but i think it is wiser to "hope for the best and expect the worst". some politicians here in POP make it sound like a second coming of christ. they need to calm down, wait and see.

Valid, I am thinking along lines of something is better then nothing. I'm not even familiar with where port is going to be, what is the use of the area now?

 

[dv8]

the port is situated just between RIU and maimon fish restaurants. if it will become a starting point for cruises in the future there is existing infrastructure to support it. RIUs could be re-vamped and renovated. two airports (POP and STI) are within a short drive and the road is supposed to be fixed in the future. but it's not sure what exactly is going to happen and how will the port work few years down the line.

 

[the gorgon]

I snorkeled and spear-fished that area many times before they started dredging, there was nothing there worth saving. Any type of pollution from the ships will dwarf whats coming in from the garbage dump nearby. I wish some people were upset about that, we sometimes have toxic smoke drifting over to Cofresi and it stings our eyes. Modern ships have exinirators (sp?) for garbage and they have to abide by strict regulations on their use. Anyway, if you can't see that this port will have more positive benefits than negative, then you need to change your glasses.

of course it will have benefits for some big players, who will be in league with Carnival. it will have no significant effect on the lives of the average people in the area.

 

[the gorgon]

take a gander at this, and get some idea.

Caribbean cruises leave wave of bitter merchants

as reported by an economist, only 5% of the money spent by the visitors actually stays in the destination country...

 

[ctrob]

From the above Jamaica article - Paul Davy, a father of two who sells wooden statues of roosters, fish and other creatures outside the port, says locals are growing angry at the lack of opportunity.

"The pot is starting to boil and, trust me, it will boil over if things don't change around here," said Davy, who helped build the pier as a construction worker but turned to crafts vending a year and a half ago. "Why can't we, the people who actually live here, make a living off the cruise ships, too?"

The answer is real simple. He can't be guaranteed a living off of the Cruise ships, because they're not his Cruise ships.
He didn't make that investment.

The same thing can and probably will happen on the North Coast. The locals are told "it will be great for our economy".
And it will be. Just not in the way they might envision in their own head.

 

[the gorgon]

From the above Jamaica article - Paul Davy, a father of two who sells wooden statues of roosters, fish and other creatures outside the port, says locals are growing angry at the lack of opportunity.

"The pot is starting to boil and, trust me, it will boil over if things don't change around here," said Davy, who helped build the pier as a construction worker but turned to crafts vending a year and a half ago. "Why can't we, the people who actually live here, make a living off the cruise ships, too?"

The answer is real simple. He can't be guaranteed a living off of the Cruise ships, because they're not his Cruise ships.
He didn't make that investment.

The same thing can and probably will happen on the North Coast. The locals are told "it will be great for our economy".
And it will be. Just not in the way they might envision in their own head.

we have a different concept of fairness, that is all. you apparently see nothing inequitable in a situation in which the local economy retains 5% of the spend, because, in your mind, the cruise ships don't belong to the locals.

bulletin; without the land, there is no cruise ship business. and kindly tell me how it will be great for the local economy if the locals don't benefit financially

 

[the gorgon]

http://dev.newsociety.com/titleimages/crs_intro.pdf

 

[the gorgon]

try this on for size, ctrob

Nicole Glass: Cruise Ships Financially Exploit Onshore Stores

 

[dv8]

i think that ctrob was not presenting his view on fairness here but rather stating that the benefit to "the economy" means general situation, like someone mentioned before: taxes, licences, government charges and so on. but it will not translate to the benefit to the local people. at least not immediate benefit such as creating new jobs and bringing a strong flow of money to local businesses.

because now i think of it i see how this could profit the community indirectly, just building a new road, as promised, will be beneficial. more money for the government is more jeepetas and more corruption but also more investments in schools, hospitals, roads and so on.

hope for the best and expect the worst, i tell you.

 

[the gorgon]

i think that ctrob was not presenting his view on fairness here but rather stating that the benefit to "the economy" means general situation, like someone mentioned before: taxes, licences, government charges and so on. but it will not translate to the benefit to the local people. at least not immediate benefit such as creating new jobs and bringing a strong flow of money to local businesses.

because now i think of it i see how this could profit the community indirectly, just building a new road, as promised, will be beneficial. more money for the government is more jeepetas and more corruption but also more investments in schools, hospitals, roads and so on.

hope for the best and expect the worst, i tell you.

the only port of call that has a decent per capita charge is Hamilton, Bermuda. i think they charge something like 55 dollars. most other islands get 10 dollars. sometime in that past, a cruise line pulled out because the island dared to try to demand a higher charge. since all the islands are like crabs in a barrel, they refuse to unite against the operators, because of the bullying they fear will come their way. so, the islands are not raking in all this money from passenger fees like people think. some islands in the past would charge fees for services like tender boats, but in the more enclave settings, the cruise lines even own the tugboats, and provide that service themselves. as i said, from all accounts in the literature, the islands get crumbs. it is better than nothing, but people should refrain from allowing that the country is on the verge of being the beneficiary of a cornucopia of riches. it is fiction, period.

 

[IslandDreaming]

i think that ctrob was not presenting his view on fairness here but rather stating that the benefit to "the economy" means general situation, like someone mentioned before: taxes, licences, government charges and so on. but it will not translate to the benefit to the local people. at least not immediate benefit such as creating new jobs and bringing a strong flow of money to local businesses.

because now i think of it i see how this could profit the community indirectly, just building a new road, as promised, will be beneficial. more money for the government is more jeepetas and more corruption but also more investments in schools, hospitals, roads and so on.

hope for the best and expect the worst, i tell you.

What's that got to do with anything? :nervous:

 

[IslandDreaming]

It’s pretty well established Wal Mart “exploits” it’s workers (They are forced into working their at gunpoint) and makes a couple dollars more at corporate level then the cashiers, would some of you object to Wal Mart being built on North Coast of DR for these reasons only?

I’m just a slight bit confused as to the attitude of local businesses, workers etc. making the same profits as the Carnival Corp.

Those articles on Falmouth Jamaica, how much were the “trinket” sellers making before carnival?

I still subscribe to something is better than nothing in an area that has been dying for years, an area that first came to prominence from Cruise ships

 

[beeza]

It?s pretty well established Wal Mart ?exploits? it?s workers (They are forced into working their at gunpoint) and makes a couple dollars more at corporate level then the cashiers, would some of you object to Wal Mart being built on North Coast of DR for these reasons only?

I?m just a slight bit confused as to the attitude of local businesses, workers etc. making the same profits as the Carnival Corp.

Those articles on Falmouth Jamaica, how much were the ?trinket? sellers making before carnival?

I still subscribe to something is better than nothing in an area that has been dying for years, an area that first came to prominence from Cruise ships

I have to agree. It's something that puts POP back on the map.

Ask anyone in Europe or North America to name a place in the Dominican Republic. I bet the most common answer would be Punta Cana.

 

[windeguy]

The main benefits I see is more name recognition and perhaps more people coming to retire on the north coast in the future.

 

[the gorgon]

It’s pretty well established Wal Mart “exploits” it’s workers (They are forced into working their at gunpoint) and makes a couple dollars more at corporate level then the cashiers, would some of you object to Wal Mart being built on North Coast of DR for these reasons only?

I’m just a slight bit confused as to the attitude of local businesses, workers etc. making the same profits as the Carnival Corp.

Those articles on Falmouth Jamaica, how much were the “trinket” sellers making before carnival?

I still subscribe to something is better than nothing in an area that has been dying for years, an area that first came to prominence from Cruise ships

you are missing the point. nobody is debating the "something is better than nothing idea. my point is simple. there is going to be no festival of riches for Puerto Plata, and people should stop saying that there is going to be.

 

[the gorgon]

The main benefits I see is more name recognition and perhaps more people coming to retire on the north coast in the future.

there has been no study that shows that people make decisions to visit a country in the future as a stopover because of a cruise ship experience.

 

[Sosua Sonny]

there has been no study that shows that people make decisions to visit a country in the future as a stopover because of a cruise ship experience.

Got to disagree with you on that one Sir Gorgon. Took a cruise and had a stop over at st pierre and miquelon. Had a wonderful afternoon there and that experience prompted a future visit.

 

[the gorgon]

Got to disagree with you on that one Sir Gorgon. Took a cruise and had a stop over at st pierre and miquelon. Had a wonderful afternoon there and that experience prompted a future visit.

glad you had a good time , Sonny, but you are one guy among millions. there is no panel data to show that there is a huge group of guys like you. as a matter of fact, one bad experience on shore can cause many people to never want to return to the destination country.