Cars Flooded by Hurricane could be on the Market

[frank12]

really, Frank? so how do you get them on a ship to the DR with a flood title?

I don't know the answer to that question. But, as i mentioned above, my cousin--who is not really my cousin--is a Dominican and has been importing cars here for as long as i can remember. He, and every other "Used car importer" on this island, are not buying cars at prices that cannot be offset in some way after the customs slap a 53% customs tax, plus first time registration, plus shipping, plus prepping the car--prepping the car back in the US before it is shipped involves removing the interior if neccessary, removing the seats for cleaning, cleaning the uphostery, and replacing the carpet and floor mats if neccessary from flood damage) and sometimes re-painting the car, fixing dents, etc. Once it gets here, odometers have to be rolled back (Use CarFax to verify before you purchase), and other minor repairs are done as well if neccessary.

Remember, in order to recoup his investment on what he has paid at a dealers auction, recoup the money paid in prepping the car and fixing what's been damaged, paying for the car to be transported/shipped down here, paying the Dominican customs taxes and first time registration, paying for drivers to go to the port and stand around all day and waiting before driving the cars back to different dominican dealerships across the island--(i'm sure you've seen long lines of cars following each other down the highway with the Aduana stickers on their windows after they've just been picked up at the port), and i'm forgetting many, many other small details and costs here--including his time used going back and forth to dealer auctions in the US, flying back and forth from the DR to the US. In order to see any kind of justified profit and time spent and manpower used--the car has to be bought either with very "High Mileage" or a "Salvage Title."

Otherwise, there would be no other way to both compete with all the other used cars on the market, as well as and used car dealerships that have flooded the market, as well as make any kind of semblance of profit after everything has been paid for and all the time, energy, and investments have been made in order to get a car down here.

This is the way things are forced to be done when you have a government imposing over 50% customs duty on imports, but it also protects the authentic dealerships here from being undersold and pushed out of business.

Frank

 

[playacaribe2]

really, Frank? so how do you get them on a ship to the DR with a flood title?

Gorgon:

You are correct about the illegality of bringing "salvage" vehicles into the country...but it is done.

Getting them on the boat is the easy part. Getting them out of customs after they arrive, requires a little "planning."

Note that while "salvage" vehicles are technically prohibited from entering the country, those that had a prior designation as "salvage" (flood, fire, collision, hail, recovered theft) can be brought into the country after they have been repaired and are in service (registered/driven) for a year...these carry a so-called "reconstructed" title, noting prior fllod, prior fire, prior collision, etc.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

 

[Castle]

cars that pass through floods are declared salvage vehicles for one of two reasons. if it is a freshwater flood, and the water gets above the dashboard, it is a total loss. if it is a saltwater flood, the water just has to get to the base of the door aperture, right at the top of the rocker panel. in both those cases, the title is branded SALVAGE, with the flood designation. if memory serves me correctly, that is a federal statute, and flood titles cannot be washed, unlike collision titles in some states. as long as the vehicle has a lien, and is carrying comprehensive insurance, the title will be a flood title. the DR does not allow rebuilt salvage into the country. therefore, unless some guy self insures a vehicle, whereupon it will not show up in carfax, there is very little likelihood of a rash of flood vehicles ending up here.

I understand. However, I thought a car could only end up branded as SALVAGE is the owner reported it to the insurance company. I thought the owner could agree with a third party to sell the vehicle as is, so the insurance company, and hence the state would never know the vehicle was flooded to begin with.
I know for sure that flooded vehicles make it to the DR. A few years ago while shopping for a SUV, I could find quite a few SUV at local dealers with clear signs of flood (katrina maybe?)

 

[the gorgon]

I understand. However, I thought a car could only end up branded as SALVAGE is the owner reported it to the insurance company. I thought the owner could agree with a third party to sell the vehicle as is, so the insurance company, and hence the state would never know the vehicle was flooded to begin with.
I know for sure that flooded vehicles make it to the DR. A few years ago while shopping for a SUV, I could find quite a few SUV at local dealers with clear signs of flood (katrina maybe?)

absolutely correct, regarding private sale. it is the insurance company that issues salvage CERTIFICATES, not the state department of motor vehicles. in order to register a car that has been totalled by the insurance carrier, the salvage certificate has to be presented to the DMV. in a state like New York, you then get an appointment to have the car inspected by auto crime personnel. you have to present bills for every replacement part, which have to display a vehicle number, if it is sheetmetal. the numbers on the sheetmetal are checked against a database to verify if they are stolen. confidential hidden VINs are checked, to make sure you did not tag the car. only when the car comes up clean do you get a branded salvage title. recently, in most states in the USA, you cannot even get a title for flood damaged cars any more, because of the safety implications, and health considerations. who knows what bacteria were in the flood water? very soon, all flood cars will be sold with a 'parts only" certificate. you will no longer be able to re-title them. they will be junk.

 

[the gorgon]

Castle, you can only sell the car in a private sale if it has no lien. most late model cars do, which is why they have collision and comprehensive insurance. you cannot sell a car with a primary lien, because you do not get title until it is paid off. secondary liens are recorded on the face of the title

 

[playacaribe2]

I understand. However, I thought a car could only end up branded as SALVAGE is the owner reported it to the insurance company. I thought the owner could agree with a third party to sell the vehicle as is, so the insurance company, and hence the state would never know the vehicle was flooded to begin with.
I know for sure that flooded vehicles make it to the DR. A few years ago while shopping for a SUV, I could find quite a few SUV at local dealers with clear signs of flood (katrina maybe?)

Castle:

You are correct as well. However, what individual would refuse to utilize his/her insurance under those circumstances.

That having been said, self-insured fleets like the rent-a-car companies may legally bypass the system....and those vehicles may go un-branded, fixed, and enter back into the stream of commerce. While these flood cars garner the headlines, the fact of the matter is that every week (instead of one off events like Katrina or Sandy) literally thousands of damaged rental vehicles are sold at the auctions, fixed, and never reported.

To combat this, companies like Auto-Check and Carfax have made arrangements to access many, but not all, of the auctions.

Things have gotten much tighter in the USA, but the fact of the matter is, once the vehicle leaves US jurisdiction, anything can and does happen with the odometers and titles.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

 

[Castle]

Castle, you can only sell the car in a private sale if it has no lien. most late model cars do, which is why they have collision and comprehensive insurance. you cannot sell a car with a primary lien, because you do not get title until it is paid off. secondary liens are recorded on the face of the title

Right. I'm just speculating and I don't know much about this. But I know those crooks that own car dealers here in DR find a way to import those cars. Maybe they hunt down those flooded cars with no lien, no older than 5 years and whose owners prefer to get less cash right now and not wait maybe months for their insurance company to respond? I don't know, just trying to put in a crook's state of mind.

 

[the gorgon]

i would NEVER buy a used car from a Dominican dealer. never. most of these SUVs you see on the road here come from states like Florida. they are better than a car from, say, Minnesota, because the weather does not beat them up. the roads do not get salted there. however when cars have very high mileage in those states, they go dirt cheap on the resale market, because the insurance goes sky high. so, the guys here buy them at auction, ship them here, and use a laptop with special software to back the odometer. since most guys here do not know about carfax, they get away with it.

 

[the gorgon]

playacaribe, you are absolutely correct. self insured fleets are under no legal obligation to report loses to anyone. that means that you can also get a rental car that was destroyed in an accident, repaired, and still have a clean title. i bought several in my time , and resold the unrepaired salvage. you get them cheap, and make a decent profit flipping them. some guys buy high end rentals just for the tags. then , they steal a perfect car, and switch the tags.

 

[playacaribe2]

playacaribe, you are absolutely correct. self insured fleets are under no legal obligation to report loses to anyone. that means that you can also get a rental car that was destroyed in an accident, repaired, and still have a clean title. i bought several in my time , and resold the unrepaired salvage. you get them cheap, and make a decent profit flipping them. some guys buy high end rentals just for the tags. then , they steal a perfect car, and switch the tags.

So true. And at least one of my Dominican clients has tracked one of his his high end stolen vehicles to the DR...only to be met with the resistance of a high ranking military official.

Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

 

[the gorgon]

So true. And at least one of my Dominican clients has tracked one of his his high end stolen vehicles to the DR...only to be met with the resistance of a high ranking military official.

Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

he should report it to the FBI. some guys in Jamaica tried that crap once. they rented Volvos from a company in Miami, and shipped them in containers to Jamaica. the FBI got wind of it, and contacted the Jamaican government, who allowed them to come and get them. the DR would be a horse of a different color, since too many politicians would be driving the stolen cars.

 

[Castle]

So true. And at least one of my Dominican clients has tracked one of his his high end stolen vehicles to the DR...only to be met with the resistance of a high ranking military official.

Oh well, that's perhaps a spin off of the local business. I close friend of mine's jeepeta got stolen a few years ago. Several months later he found the jeepeta parked on a street, a couple of army soldiers (not Pichardo's, I hope) inside the vehicle. He was positive it was his vehicle, so unwilling to confront the soldiers, he stopped a passing by police car and explained the situation. He still had the original key with him. The cops told the guardias they were going to do a little chek and when the key matched the trunk lid, all hell broke loose. A general stormed out of a house nearby where a big party was being thrown, escorted by another pair of soldiers/goons, the cops crapped in their pants. When things cooled down, the General explained he had bought the Lexus jeepeta from a well known luxury car dealer (whose name I won't make public), and that they were going to clear things out. As it turned out, the dealer told my friend he better be quiet and choose from any of the cars he had for sale in exchange for his silence. He picked up a Land Cruiser (probably more expensive than his former jeepeta), and everybody was happy, end of story.

I know this might be off topic, but I think it is a good warning for everyone. Get your vehicles cleared by police first, even if you're buying from a dealer.

 

[playacaribe2]

he should report it to the FBI. some guys in Jamaica tried that crap once. they rented Volvos from a company in Miami, and shipped them in containers to Jamaica. the FBI got wind of it, and contacted the Jamaican government, who allowed them to come and get them. the DR would be a horse of a different color, since too many politicians would be driving the stolen cars.

LE was not interested as it appeared to be a lone wolf...not a ring. Years ago I recall the insurance companies in the DR had tracked down stolen vehicles that had been recovered by the police but had never been returned to their owners. When they tried to claim them, they found generals, politicos and the like driving them around "on loan."

Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

 

[the gorgon]

Oh well, that's perhaps a spin off of the local business. I close friend of mine's jeepeta got stolen a few years ago. Several months later he found the jeepeta parked on a street, a couple of army soldiers (not Pichardo's, I hope) inside the vehicle. He was positive it was his vehicle, so unwilling to confront the soldiers, he stopped a passing by police car and explained the situation. He still had the original key with him. The cops told the guardias they were going to do a little chek and when the key matched the trunk lid, all hell broke loose. A general stormed out of a house nearby where a big party was being thrown, escorted by another pair of soldiers/goons, the cops crapped in their pants. When things cooled down, the General explained he had bought the Lexus jeepeta from a well known luxury car dealer (whose name I won't make public), and that they were going to clear things out. As it turned out, the dealer told my friend he better be quiet and choose from any of the cars he had for sale in exchange for his silence. He picked up a Land Cruiser (probably more expensive than his former jeepeta), and everybody was happy, end of story.

I know this might be off topic, but I think it is a good warning for everyone. Get your vehicles cleared by police first, even if you're buying from a dealer.

why am i not surprised?

 

[the gorgon]

LE was not interested as it appeared to be a lone wolf...not a ring. Years ago I recall the insurance companies in the DR had tracked down stolen vehicles that had been recovered by the police but had never been returned to their owners. When they tried to claim them, they found generals, politicos and the like driving them around "on loan."

Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

it was not that long ago. if memory serves me right, it was well over 100 cars. the DR is a lawless frontier. if that happened in the USA, guys would be doing time, or, at the very least, probation.