Corruption in new government worse than Hipolito's

[gringito]

I Could Give A Rat's ***...

What is wrong with people? Why are they not demanding that something be done?

23 Feb Listin Diario ? The ex-chief of the Air Force, (ret) General Virgilio Sierra P?rez (PRD), expropriated more then 200 tareas of land from a family to build an airfield for Quirino Paulino Castillo.

24 Feb Listin Diario ? The past government, (PRD), made a lagoon on land owned by Quirino Paulino Castillo at a cost of RD$ 6 million and used state owned equipment at an additional cost of RD$ 2 million.

The ex-president of Plan Renove, Pedro Franco Badia (PRD) wants ex-president Hip?lito Mej?a to be questioned in the swindling of more than RD$ 1,800 million in the program Plan Renove by people higher up in the government.

A few people, not many and not PRD, are asking how Quirino Paulino Castillo made it through the ranks of the military so easily, got discharged and reinstated illegally at a higher rank by people that happen to belong to the PRD. It is said that ex-president Hip?lito Mej?a was aware that Quirino Paulino Castillo was under investigation by the DNC and the DEA long before aforementioned was arrested on drug charges but the ex-president continued to support him.

These are a few of many illegal things done in the past administration . Now with things getting better and prices seem to be coming down ex-president Hip?lito Mej?a has the audacity to criticize the present administration on their operations. I am not trying to say that the PLD is perfect but I don?t think you can even begin to compare the things done by the PLD to the things done by the PRD.

IMHO the Dominican people need to bend over, and with their right hand reach under and grab their right shoulder and with their left hand grab their left shoulder and without too much twisting and turning pull their heads out. I fail to understand why there isn?t a demonstrative outcry from the people.

I could give a rat's *** for your humble opinion. Are you for real? Why don't the people...? The higher class people here are part of the game. The lower class has learned to never expect anything but disappointment from their government, generally doesn't vote and just shows up in the streets to cheer and dance for whoever won. The middle class actually stresses out about it and has real opinions but feels helpless to do anything. And things are getting better?
Please give me some real examples of things that are getting better in the DR? And I hope you are not naive enough to suggest the false peso/dollar rate in the last few months as a positive. The peso/dollar rate should be around 41-42 and will be soon.
And you think the Mejia gov was corrupt? What real, tangible evidence do you have (other than the bullshit reports you sited from Listen Diario)?
And naming names? Give me a break. The only people on this board that could name names are smart enough not to because they understand the risks and the fact that nothing would change. Dolores, (Wouldn't Pay A Penny)? Nice concept but if you won't pay a penny, don't expect to get any deals done here.
I am sure many will take offense to my comments, even though none is intended. I really enjoy this board and the many smart, opiniated people who comment here. I am a recent member but have been reading all of the categories for some timeAnd I could also give a rat's *** what party is in power either. PLD, PRD. PRSC? It is all $$$$.

Regards

 

[Guxs]

I could give a rat's *** for your humble opinion. Are you for real? Why don't the people...? The higher class people here are part of the game. The lower class has learned to never expect anything but disappointment from their government, generally doesn't vote and just shows up in the streets to cheer and dance for whoever won. The middle class actually stresses out about it and has real opinions but feels helpless to do anything. And things are getting better?
Please give me some real examples of things that are getting better in the DR? And I hope you are not naive enough to suggest the false peso/dollar rate in the last few months as a positive. The peso/dollar rate should be around 41-42 and will be soon.
And you think the Mejia gov was corrupt? What real, tangible evidence do you have (other than the bullshit reports you sited from Listen Diario)?
And naming names? Give me a break. The only people on this board that could name names are smart enough not to because they understand the risks and the fact that nothing would change. Dolores, (Wouldn't Pay A Penny)? Nice concept but if you won't pay a penny, don't expect to get any deals done here.
I am sure many will take offense to my comments, even though none is intended. I really enjoy this board and the many smart, opiniated people who comment here. I am a recent member but have been reading all of the categories for some timeAnd I could also give a rat's *** what party is in power either. PLD, PRD. PRSC? It is all $$$$.

Regards

This is all true. I have been living in DR for six months and this is I saw:
The higger class does not care about anything, just keeping make easy money, the middle class just want to be rich and pretend to be, and the lower class just want ron and reggaeton. Is sad, but is true. This is a country with porsches, ferraris, mercedes in all streets, and no electricity. This is a country where you can open an bank account and do whetever you want. Here the corruption is in the air, but you can feel that this government is better than Ipolito?s.
Regards

 

[Rick Snyder]

Well don't that beat all!

PJT I like your ideas and train of thought but the ?dream on? idea should be changed as there is always the possibility of this coming to pass. If the people ever learn that the problem can in fact be attacked and if not overcome then at least get a handle on it then anything is possible. Of course you can always take the attitude, as some posters, that nothing can be changed and you can go bury your head in the sand.

I have only lived here 9 years and am less didactic than Lambada is and this might be a shortcoming on my part but I firmly believe that the acculturation process is a two way street.

It is interesting to note one of the articles from DR1 News today titled ?Community organization against corruption?. If I may quote from that article;

While not participating in the activity, Elena Brineman, the head of the USAID efforts in the Dominican Republic, urged the Dominican people to push for a halt to the impunity given so many officials. In her words, "The corruption will not stop until a large group of Dominicans say "enough, that's sufficient, stop it!"

Notice the words ?large group of Dominicans?. This is what I said in my post #19.

Gringito, you don?t think things are better now then they were 8 months ago? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[gringito]

Not Really

PJT I like your ideas and train of thought but the ?dream on? idea should be changed as there is always the possibility of this coming to pass. If the people ever learn that the problem can in fact be attacked and if not overcome then at least get a handle on it then anything is possible. Of course you can always take the attitude, as some posters, that nothing can be changed and you can go bury your head in the sand.

I have only lived here 9 years and am less didactic than Lambada is and this might be a shortcoming on my part but I firmly believe that the acculturation process is a two way street.

It is interesting to note one of the articles from DR1 News today titled ?Community organization against corruption?. If I may quote from that article;



Notice the words ?large group of Dominicans?. This is what I said in my post #19.

Gringito, you don?t think things are better now then they were 8 months ago? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

At least not in any significant areas. That is why I was asking for some examples of how things are better. I am an optomist except when it comes to governments in the DR.

Regards

 

[DunHill]

Oh yes

Last friday i went to SPM to pay the tax on the rent
I was there at 9:30
at 15:45 i could leave the building
I just lost a whole f%&$ing day for paying 260 pesos
Next time, i'll think twice before i do that again

And here there is no other way to pay ........
(Maybe i should do as a dominican, don't pay rent , and not loosing every month a day wondering around in the taxoffice)

What was the name of that guy , who invented that tax, leo??? or something

 

[Rick Snyder]

All I can do is try.

Gringito,
For me the situation here doesn?t affect me much as I am in my own little world with the natives and live well. The thing that always upsets me and makes me feel bad is listening to the natives, Dominicans, as they try to live in the middle of all this corruption. The amount of complaining and sorrow has diminished in this neck of the woods since Leonel took office. At the same time I do pay attention to prices at times and when my wife tells me that chicken costs 15 pesos a lb. Instead of 35 plus then it must be better. I buy a sack of rice every 2 ? months and the price has come down from 2,300 to 1,500. Yup, better. Same with gasoline for the generator and the blackouts here are fewer than before. Yup, better.

The major problem I always face here it that the Dominicans don?t seem to believe a lot of the things I tell them. I have tried to explain how doing things in mass can in fact bring change but the mentality is that things can?t be changed as it has always been that way. The use of their government officials as that is what they are there for but everyone seems to be afraid of those officials. I have tried to talk a local well known , educated and respected person in this city to run for office but once again there is the fear and the thinking that it can?t be done. This man is not rich and there lies another problem in his mind. As I am not a Dominican the only thing to do is nothing or go into that didactical mode of operation in the hopes that some day someone will listen. I don?t do these things as any benefit to myself.

 

[gringito]

It is Hard

Gringito,
For me the situation here doesn?t affect me much as I am in my own little world with the natives and live well. The thing that always upsets me and makes me feel bad is listening to the natives, Dominicans, as they try to live in the middle of all this corruption. The amount of complaining and sorrow has diminished in this neck of the woods since Leonel took office. At the same time I do pay attention to prices at times and when my wife tells me that chicken costs 15 pesos a lb. Instead of 35 plus then it must be better. I buy a sack of rice every 2 ? months and the price has come down from 2,300 to 1,500. Yup, better. Same with gasoline for the generator and the blackouts here are fewer than before. Yup, better.

The major problem I always face here it that the Dominicans don?t seem to believe a lot of the things I tell them. I have tried to explain how doing things in mass can in fact bring change but the mentality is that things can?t be changed as it has always been that way. The use of their government officials as that is what they are there for but everyone seems to be afraid of those officials. I have tried to talk a local well known , educated and respected person in this city to run for office but once again there is the fear and the thinking that it can?t be done. This man is not rich and there lies another problem in his mind. As I am not a Dominican the only thing to do is nothing or go into that didactical mode of operation in the hopes that some day someone will listen. I don?t do these things as any benefit to myself.

It is a function of time and that is always hard. I am reminded of how long it took the U.S. to really become a nation under the rule of law. Leonel said in his speech yesteday that "becoming known as a nation under the rule of law is vital for the future". Let's see if he is serious about it. It won't take long to find out.

Regards

 

[Rick Snyder]

True but...............

It is a function of time and that is always hard. I am reminded of how long it took the U.S. to really become a nation under the rule of law. Leonel said in his speech yesteday that "becoming known as a nation under the rule of law is vital for the future". Let's see if he is serious about it. It won't take long to find out.

But this puts us in that perpetual circle again. He can say a lot of things and the people will sit back and wait to see the changes and if nothing seems to happen then they will say, ?see I knew it wasn?t going to happen?, instead of helping it to happen or demanding in mass that it happens. The people have a voice and the more people the louder the voice. You mention the USA becoming a nation under the rule of law but this didn?t just happen on its own and it wasn?t just the wealthy and or the middle class that brought this change about.

 

[gringito]

However...

But this puts us in that perpetual circle again. He can say a lot of things and the people will sit back and wait to see the changes and if nothing seems to happen then they will say, ?see I knew it wasn?t going to happen?, instead of helping it to happen or demanding in mass that it happens. The people have a voice and the more people the louder the voice. You mention the USA becoming a nation under the rule of law but this didn?t just happen on its own and it wasn?t just the wealthy and or the middle class that brought this change about.

I think that is how change happens. Enough people get fed up with it and are willing to take whatever risks are necessary to have change. The DR is a long way off from that. Take the energy situation as an example. Everybody here talks about the theft of electricity as the principal problem in the country but I do not share that opinion. Think about it, the distributors have to pay the generators in dollars or the peso equivalant of dollars at the billing time. The Madrid Accord, setting the pricing between generators and distributors, was set when the peso was at 16-17 and oil was $23 per bbl. Then the peso went to 50 and oil is $50 per bbl. Depending on your perspective, now the distributors are either paying 2 times what they were paying the generators before or they are collecting half of what they used to get from the end user. The distributor receives it's payments in pesos, not dollars. The distributors are paying more than U.S $.10 per KWHr now for power to the generators because all of the generators, for the most part are liquid fuel fired power plants. Liquid fuel fired power plants cost very little to build but the fuel is very expensive. Solid fuel plants cost a lot more to build but then the fuel is very cheap (except coal which follows oil pricing and is not nearly as efficient as other solid fuel plants or as clean). The price for electricity in the DR should be U.S $.06 to the distributors based on power purchase contracts of 7-8 years. But the market is paying almost twice that amount. If the masses are not pissed off enough about that to rise up, I don't know what will cause them to. It is jeopardizing every facet of the economy here. Hotels cannot build without having their own power. The free trade zones are now competing with other countries that have much cheaper electricity.

Think about the money: there are 8760 hours in a year. If you have a 400 MW power plant operating at 90% availability, that is 3,153,600,000 KWHrs per year. Every U.S. cent ($.01) = U.S. $ 31,500,000 per year. The demand in the DR is roughly 1600 MW. So, if the market is paying U.S. 4 cents more than it should, that means you would multiply 4 times the 400 MW example I gave you. The country is wasting U.S. $ 504,000,000 per year, every year.

Can you imagine the DR we could create with the money that is being wasted every year? And before all you math experts start trying to re-work the numbers, trust me I have been doing this for a long time.

But my point in explaining all of this is, if the people have been allowing the big boys to take all that money from them every year, what more will it take before they rise up? I want long term solutions not quick fixes.

Regards

 

[Rick Snyder]

Need to go further

Gringito you went off on a bit of a tangent on this one. Getting back to the corruption portion of the thread with your quote;

Quote by gringito;
Everybody here talks about the theft of electricity as the principal problem in the country but I do not share that opinion.

Regardless of how much electricity is produced or at what price the fact that the distributors say they are only collecting 20% to 30% of monies owed by the users equates to a 70% or 80% shortfall in what can be paid to the generators. Then there is the case that was in the news a few weeks ago about the employees of one of the distributors that was reducing the bills by 80% on some big users and requesting a 5% kickback for the reduction. The user pays 25%, the employee pockets 5% and the distributor gets 20%. Here in my little town 2 years ago I reposted 2 cases of obvious electricity thief to the local distributor 4 times and at present those lines are still there and the users still haven?t paid anything. Now let?s assume that each user uses 200 KW free each month for 24 months, you do the math.

Now attempt to cut out the corruption and thief be it through a whistle blower program or by what other means and the electrical crisis gets better. Do something about the waste you mention and the crisis gets better or take the typical Dominican stand and do nothing but complain to one or two people about the blackouts and the high cost of electricity.

Quote by gringito;
But my point in explaining all of this is, if the people have been allowing the big boys to take all that money from them every year, what more will it take before they rise up? I want long term solutions not quick fixes.

This is a good question and one that I can?t answer as I am not Dominican. Those that are Dominican care to respond to this?

Now with my being American my train of thought goes with having the interest to change things, convince a few friends that a change needs to be brought about and can be brought about. With a few or a lot of interested people you organize a town hall meeting and you invite your local government officials and the news media and with a well laid out outline you present the community ideas. If you approach this correctly it comes across as a community idea with their support and not as an idea generated by you.

Teach the people that with their mouths and votes and their mass they can make a difference and can bring about change.

 

[gringito]

The Voters

Gringito you went off on a bit of a tangent on this one. Getting back to the corruption portion of the thread with your quote;



Regardless of how much electricity is produced or at what price the fact that the distributors say they are only collecting 20% to 30% of monies owed by the users equates to a 70% or 80% shortfall in what can be paid to the generators. Then there is the case that was in the news a few weeks ago about the employees of one of the distributors that was reducing the bills by 80% on some big users and requesting a 5% kickback for the reduction. The user pays 25%, the employee pockets 5% and the distributor gets 20%. Here in my little town 2 years ago I reposted 2 cases of obvious electricity thief to the local distributor 4 times and at present those lines are still there and the users still haven?t paid anything. Now let?s assume that each user uses 200 KW free each month for 24 months, you do the math.

Now attempt to cut out the corruption and thief be it through a whistle blower program or by what other means and the electrical crisis gets better. Do something about the waste you mention and the crisis gets better or take the typical Dominican stand and do nothing but complain to one or two people about the blackouts and the high cost of electricity.



This is a good question and one that I can?t answer as I am not Dominican. Those that are Dominican care to respond to this?

Now with my being American my train of thought goes with having the interest to change things, convince a few friends that a change needs to be brought about and can be brought about. With a few or a lot of interested people you organize a town hall meeting and you invite your local government officials and the news media and with a well laid out outline you present the community ideas. If you approach this correctly it comes across as a community idea with their support and not as an idea generated by you.

Teach the people that with their mouths and votes and their mass they can make a difference and can bring about change.

If your theory is correct about electricity theft being the biggest problem in the energy sector (comprising 70-80% of distributor income) then expecting the masses to vote out corruption won't work because they would just continue to steal it no matter how cheap it is. This has been a nation of people expecting the government to take care of them for so long, they don't care about corruption. They just want to get what they want and don't think about the long term effects of the higher ups getting the cream.
Can you explain to me how to just highlight the phrases I want to respond to like you did in your reply? I don't want to keep re-sending the entire message back when replying.

Regards

 

[Rick Snyder]

Not mine

Quote by gringito;
If your theory is correct about electricity theft being the biggest problem in the energy sector (comprising 70-80% of distributor income)

This is not my theory and I don?t know if it?s the biggest problem all I know is this is what the distributors have been crying about for at least 2 years. I know there are people that don?t pay their bills but is it 70-80%, I don?t think so but there is no way for me to prove it one way or the other. IMHO I think the majority of the people pay something or all of what they owe thereby negating the claims of the distributors. If this is the case then there is a very large amount of monies entering some pockets and the users are being blamed and this wouldn?t surprise me if this is in fact the case. A normal person running a business would do something to correct a problem such as people not paying bills or thieves. As there has been nothing done in all this time is it possible the problem doesn?t exist????????? I live in a small town and the distributor is located on the main street and they know almost everyone in the community. The workers know the majority of which lines are illegal hookups and if they really wanted to stop thief they could do a CCC on a continuous basis.(CCC ? cut-confiscate-campaign) They also have their computer that could give them a list of those people that haven?t paid in let?s say 3 months and do a CCC.

Your statement concerning the people here is correct. There are a lot of them that are under the impression that it is the duty of the government to take care of them. A lot of people I?ve talked to think that the government is a separate unity and not connected to them in any way other then to help. They think the government has a bank account with an unlimited supply of money and they don?t realize that those monies being spent and stolen are in fact the monies they have paid in taxes. If they could understand that all this money that is mentioned everyday in the newspaper, radio and TV is in fact their money then maybe they would feel different about its use or misuse. Your statement ?don?t think about the long term effects? hits the nail on the head as they live for today with no thought toward the future.

Quote by gringito;
Can you explain to me how to just highlight the phrases I want to respond to like you did in your reply? I don't want to keep re-sending the entire message back when replying.

Concerning this I sent you a PM.