- Thread starter LTSteve
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Documentation of illegal Haitians turning into a long process
Not true. The DR created the situation decades ago because Dominicans didn't want to do the hard work of gathering sugar cane.
Ha?ti a perdu le contr?le de ses 60 derni?res ann?es d'archives publiques | Am?rique latine
I do not understand why the Haitian government does not just admit that the archives have been destroyed? Or at lest just SAY that.. since there are really an enormous number of Haitians who simply do not have a birth certificate, never had one, were not born in a hospital, only had a baptism record. etc. or HAVE no papers at all.
It may seem harsh but why would anyone fake being born in Haiti? I mean if you are Haitian black and go up to the Embassy and speak fluent Kreyole and say you were born in Terrier Rouge on such and such a date.. why not just GIVE the GUY the paper?
There are some places, like Ouanaminthe, like the Artibonite, where there is just no where to register the births. One article said ,,, really an old one from 2006 talked about how the government guy was paid $175 US a month and had an ofice and typewriter but no electricity..
I think that Haiti is probably really ashamed to admit how bad things are. But the earthquake is really the perfect excuse.
Look .. the records were destroyed. it is on record now.. So we will do our best to get you your papers.
I do not understand why the Haitian government does not just admit that the archives have been destroyed? Or at lest just SAY that.. since there are really an enormous number of Haitians who simply do not have a birth certificate, never had one, were not born in a hospital, only had a baptism record. etc. or HAVE no papers at all.
It may seem harsh but why would anyone fake being born in Haiti? I mean if you are Haitian black and go up to the Embassy and speak fluent Kreyole and say you were born in Terrier Rouge on such and such a date.. why not just GIVE the GUY the paper?
There are some places, like Ouanaminthe, like the Artibonite, where there is just no where to register the births. One article said ,,, really an old one from 2006 talked about how the government guy was paid $175 US a month and had an ofice and typewriter but no electricity..
I think that Haiti is probably really ashamed to admit how bad things are. But the earthquake is really the perfect excuse.
Look .. the records were destroyed. it is on record now.. So we will do our best to get you your papers.
Last time I saw, the US Marines aren't an armed corps of the Dominican government, and they would be the ones to start the practice of importing Haitian labour en masse to labor in the American owned (f.ex. South Puerto Rico Sugar Company) when they occupied both sides of the island (1916-24 DR, 1915-34 Haiti), creating the batey system in the process.
Agreed. But the slavery involved is relevant, as is the massacre of Haitians because it was cheaper than deporting them. The dehumanization of Haitians in the DR is a legacy of the Trujillo years. Even if he did not start it.
‘Massive campaign’ to document Haitians in Dominican Republic
Papers to cost Haitians RD$1,000
Juan Dolio, Dominican Republic.- Haiti will launch a massive campaign to document its nationals in Dominican Republic, making them eligible to apply for Santo Domingo's 's National Plan to Regularize Foreigners, Prime Minister of that country, Laurent Lamothe announced Thursday.
The initiative includes a lower fee to issue passports.
The official said the process “hasn’t been easy" for his country, but in the spirit of progress that moves them, they are now capable of issuing documents "by the thousands" to their citizens in the country. "We have prepared an interdepartmental, inter-agency Commission that is able to comply with all the elements to give our countrymen all documents."
He revealed that starting this month passports will be issued to Haitian citizens at a cost of no more than 1,000 Dominican pesos for the poorest, to facilitate access to the most vulnerable.
http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/lo...gn-to-document-Haitians-in-Dominican-Republic
Papers to cost Haitians RD$1,000
Juan Dolio, Dominican Republic.- Haiti will launch a massive campaign to document its nationals in Dominican Republic, making them eligible to apply for Santo Domingo's 's National Plan to Regularize Foreigners, Prime Minister of that country, Laurent Lamothe announced Thursday.
The initiative includes a lower fee to issue passports.
The official said the process “hasn’t been easy" for his country, but in the spirit of progress that moves them, they are now capable of issuing documents "by the thousands" to their citizens in the country. "We have prepared an interdepartmental, inter-agency Commission that is able to comply with all the elements to give our countrymen all documents."
He revealed that starting this month passports will be issued to Haitian citizens at a cost of no more than 1,000 Dominican pesos for the poorest, to facilitate access to the most vulnerable.
http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/lo...gn-to-document-Haitians-in-Dominican-Republic
The practice of using Haitian labor didn't start with American governor Knapp (he refused to impose this on the Dominican population because he knew the history of the country very well and was sensitive to the desires of the Dominican population), but the American governor that came after him who either didn't know the history of the country or simply didn't care what consequences this could have in the future.
In any rate, I do wonder why is there a street named after Charles Sumner in Santo Domingo. In the mid-to-late of the 19th century that guy (who was a congressman in the US government) actually supported the destruction of the DR as a state and a nation. I understand perfectly that the people that decided to name the street after him focused on the fact that he was against the then possible annexation of the DR to the United States. The only problem is that he supported the idea of homogenizing the population of the island (basically Haitianization) and for the island to eventually become one island-wide state where all the African-American population from the USA could basically be dumped.
This is what an American that visited the country in the mid-to-late 19th century said about Sumner's dream.
This is what the U.S. Commission that was sent to investigate the country in the 1870's said about the population they found in the country.
As far as I'm concerned, Charles Sumner avenue in Santo Domingo (the street where Pricesmart, Alfa Romeo/Fiat, Lancia, etc are located) should have its name changed for someone that actually supports or supported the maintenance of the Dominican Republic as an independent state and nation to eternity.
In many documents written by Americans interested in developing the sugar industry before there was much of a sugar industry to speak of, I have seen comments regarding what they considered "the labor problem." In more than one occasion they claim that this problem was easily remedied because "the labor will be brought from all the other nearby islands." The native Dominican was not willing to work for the wages the Americans wanted them to and on top of that the native Dominican spoke Spanish. With the English-speaking workers from the Lesser Antilles, who were desperate for work, they found men that not only removed the need for translators between the owners of the sugar mill and their workers, but also men that worked for pennies on the dollar, so to speak.
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I do not know from whence your source for Sumner comes and I have not read volumes on his life but my understanding was that he was a huge champion for the Black man, and was a great supporter of Haiti as an independent nation. It is cited in the Wiki that he was afraid that those who were FOR the annexation of the Dominican Republic were after the entire island and that he, Sumner, wished to preserve the African nation of Haiti. So I think that you may be wrong about Sumner.
Here is one quote from the Wiki
"In closed session, Sen. Sumner spoke out against the treaty; warning that there would be difficulty with the foreign nationals, noting the chronic rebellion that took place on the island, and the risk that the independence of Haiti, recognized by the United States in 1862, would be lost. Sumner stated that Grant's use of the U.S. Navy as a protectorate was a violation of International law and unconstitutional.[77] Finally, on June 30, 1870 the treaty was voted on by the Senate and failed to gain the required 2/3 majority for treaty passage.[78]"
So maybe that is one less thing to bother you?
There is a Charles Sumner ave. in Port au Prince as well.
Hey! At least you are not Puerto Rico! which you might have been. Or would you have preferred that?
Here is one quote from the Wiki
"In closed session, Sen. Sumner spoke out against the treaty; warning that there would be difficulty with the foreign nationals, noting the chronic rebellion that took place on the island, and the risk that the independence of Haiti, recognized by the United States in 1862, would be lost. Sumner stated that Grant's use of the U.S. Navy as a protectorate was a violation of International law and unconstitutional.[77] Finally, on June 30, 1870 the treaty was voted on by the Senate and failed to gain the required 2/3 majority for treaty passage.[78]"
So maybe that is one less thing to bother you?
There is a Charles Sumner ave. in Port au Prince as well.
Hey! At least you are not Puerto Rico! which you might have been. Or would you have preferred that?
I've seen some of Sumner's speeches and also the opinions expressed about him by members of the American commission sent to the island in order to gauge what the people thought about a possible annexation. He wanted the whole island to be one country and that would had been at the expense of the DR.
On another note, a few more quotes from the US Commission Report of 1871.
The American colonists are the African-Americans that arrived during the dictatorship and invasion of Jean Pierre Boyer.
Here is one more proof that Dominicans were indeed willing to work, but only at the right price. American investors wanted workers at wages too low by Dominican standards, so the American investors (mostly sugar interests, because the Dominican sugar industry was mostly owned by Americans until Trujillo rose to power in the 20th century) at first imported English-speaking workers from the Lesser Antilles.
The Vega Real is the Cibao valley east of Santiago, west of Saman?, and north of, but including, Bonao.
Jos? Silvano Acosta?s, governor of Saman? (the district where the African-Americans that arrived during the dictatorship of Jean Pierre Boyer have the greatest weight in the composition of the population), statement to the American commission in Saman?, January 28, 1871.
Colonel Enrique Abreu, commandant of Saman?.
An American?s opinion.
On another note, a few more quotes from the US Commission Report of 1871.
The American colonists are the African-Americans that arrived during the dictatorship and invasion of Jean Pierre Boyer.
Here is one more proof that Dominicans were indeed willing to work, but only at the right price. American investors wanted workers at wages too low by Dominican standards, so the American investors (mostly sugar interests, because the Dominican sugar industry was mostly owned by Americans until Trujillo rose to power in the 20th century) at first imported English-speaking workers from the Lesser Antilles.
The Vega Real is the Cibao valley east of Santiago, west of Saman?, and north of, but including, Bonao.
Jos? Silvano Acosta?s, governor of Saman? (the district where the African-Americans that arrived during the dictatorship of Jean Pierre Boyer have the greatest weight in the composition of the population), statement to the American commission in Saman?, January 28, 1871.
Colonel Enrique Abreu, commandant of Saman?.
An American?s opinion.
PRD recommendations on rules for applying naturalization law
The Dominican Revolutionary Party (PRD) has handed in to the government, 10 proposals taking into account the rules for the application of Law 169-14 concerning naturalization.
PRD members suggest that a personal identity document from the country of origin or at least a legalized document from one of the parents of the applicant must be presented to demonstrate that the Dominican state does not create the condition of statelessness.
PRD president, Miguel Vargas, suggested that the Executive Branch declare a state of alert, and order the strengthening of all security measures in the border area, during the foreigner regularization period to prevent a mass influx of illegal immigrants wishing to take irregular advantage of the free process to gain legal status in the Dominican Republic.
Vargas requested that the application process be supervised by a Committee of Monitoring and Evaluation consisting of a representative of the Catholic Church, five representatives from Civil Society, three media directors representatives and a representative from each party that hold seats in Congress.
He suggested that a procedure be established that assigns a category for each application based on the type of status requested or demonstrated by the applicant.
He proposed that a "Pact for the Control and Development of the Border Area," be developed between the social and political forces of the country.
The proposals were delivered to the Presidential Palace by a commission, made up of the legal director of the PRD, Salim Ibarra; spokesman Victor Gomez Casanova; lawyer Jose Miguel Vasquez; and ex-Senator Tonty Rutinel.
El PRD plantea que la Rep?blica Dominicana pida un documento identidad - DiarioLibre.com
The Dominican Revolutionary Party (PRD) has handed in to the government, 10 proposals taking into account the rules for the application of Law 169-14 concerning naturalization.
PRD members suggest that a personal identity document from the country of origin or at least a legalized document from one of the parents of the applicant must be presented to demonstrate that the Dominican state does not create the condition of statelessness.
PRD president, Miguel Vargas, suggested that the Executive Branch declare a state of alert, and order the strengthening of all security measures in the border area, during the foreigner regularization period to prevent a mass influx of illegal immigrants wishing to take irregular advantage of the free process to gain legal status in the Dominican Republic.
Vargas requested that the application process be supervised by a Committee of Monitoring and Evaluation consisting of a representative of the Catholic Church, five representatives from Civil Society, three media directors representatives and a representative from each party that hold seats in Congress.
He suggested that a procedure be established that assigns a category for each application based on the type of status requested or demonstrated by the applicant.
He proposed that a "Pact for the Control and Development of the Border Area," be developed between the social and political forces of the country.
The proposals were delivered to the Presidential Palace by a commission, made up of the legal director of the PRD, Salim Ibarra; spokesman Victor Gomez Casanova; lawyer Jose Miguel Vasquez; and ex-Senator Tonty Rutinel.
El PRD plantea que la Rep?blica Dominicana pida un documento identidad - DiarioLibre.com
Why doesn't the Dominican Republic government just do as Australia did with this new hard illegal immigration policies.
Read more.
Australia: Illegals not welcome
Read more.
Australia: Illegals not welcome
You make NO SENSE. If Haitians were rich, they would not be fleeing. They would be treated like all rich travelers from rich countries are treated...as money spending tourists.
Haitians with money have been traveling back and forth to the US and canada for years.
It has nothing to do with race.
Yes but what has the DR government done since the departure of the Yanks in 1924??????
Take it from this Haitian.
Haiti as a nation and Haitians as a people do not give a damn about the DR Haitians.
The Haitian government speaks on the isse just to save face and at the request of the international.
DR Haitians are seen by the vast majority of Haitians a sa non desirable diaspora...and see this so called crisis as a DR problem.
Haiti as a nation and Haitians as a people do not give a damn about the DR Haitians.
The Haitian government speaks on the isse just to save face and at the request of the international.
DR Haitians are seen by the vast majority of Haitians a sa non desirable diaspora...and see this so called crisis as a DR problem.
As usual many of you are off on a tangent. This was initiated by the DR gov to try to solve a problem which seems to be getting worse and worse with each month that passes. Haiti's lack of action is similar to what Mexico does in regards to their citizens illegally entering the US. They don't care. If they leave the country of their birth than it is one less person these govs. have to worry about. I truly believe that this DR law was structured knowing that illegal Haitians can't get the proper paper work from Haiti and at some point that will give the DR the legal right to send them back to Haiti. It is not about race but more about a 3rd world country paying for services in the DR for those from a 4th world country. The Haitian Gov.and it's country were in poor shape prior to the earthquake. Since the earthquake it is worse. Those who have nothing , have nothing to lose. If they can get to the DR with a slight chance of a better existance than that is what will happen. The DR has the right to protect it's borders, especially where there is much antagonism from the Haitian Gov who have bigger fish to fry.