Does he only **** me off?

[Rick Snyder]

Hot off the press in the DRnews for today under #4 Criminal code returned to Congress in that it said, "recommendations among which are the demands made by women's rights organizations and others who believe that abortion should be de-criminalized when the mother's life is in danger or when pregnancy is the result of rape.".

Watch what happens very closely in the congress with this bill. It was due to the catholic church that these two portions of the bill weren't added before.

 

[carlos]

mis dos cheles...

No matter what the Constitution or any law states..The church will always have some sort of influence in politics.

sad but true

I agree that he should not be involved on such a large scale

 

[Ogre of the Caribbean]

technical question/request

When I opened Rick's link on #21, the ADOBE file writing was so tiny that it is extremely difficult to read.

Would someone please quote the section of the adobe file that states what Juan Bosch was up to? Did he get so far as to actually enact any laws that would strip the Catholic Church of its status?

 

[Everett]

But, on the other hand, the Church went against Trujillo toward the end. At one point SDQ's leading cleric was effectively under house arrest due to the pressure on Trujillo from Rome.
Am not apologizing for the excesses of the Mother Church but even they were apalled by Trujillo. Of course the US was also stirring the pot at that time too.
As we all know, the Roman Church has an enormous influence in the DR - some good some not so good. They are, of course, homophoebic, anti-choice, into drug demonology yet they have championed the crime crackdown and have weighed in heavily against government corruption.
That's the church for you.

 

[A.Hidalgo]

But, on the other hand, the Church went against Trujillo toward the end. At one point SDQ's leading cleric was effectively under house arrest due to the pressure on Trujillo from Rome.
Am not apologizing for the excesses of the Mother Church but even they were apalled by Trujillo. Of course the US was also stirring the pot at that time too.
As we all know, the Roman Church has an enormous influence in the DR - some good some not so good. They are, of course, homophoebic, anti-choice, into drug demonology yet they have championed the crime crackdown and have weighed in heavily against government corruption.
That's the church for you.

Question, by "drug demonology" do you mean the "pill" as an example?

 

[A.Hidalgo]

When I opened Rick's link on #21, the ADOBE file writing was so tiny that it is extremely difficult to read.

Would someone please quote the section of the adobe file that states what Juan Bosch was up to? Did he get so far as to actually enact any laws that would strip the Catholic Church of its status?

The quote is " The short -lived Bosch government enacted a new constitution that dissolved the privileges and monopoly of the Catholic Church, which made the Dominican bishops adversaries of the new government, a key reason for its downfall" author Arelis Ricourt Gomez

Now you owe me a cold one:cheeky:

 

[Celt202]

When I opened Rick's link on #21, the ADOBE file writing was so tiny that it is extremely difficult to read.

Would someone please quote the section of the adobe file that states what Juan Bosch was up to? Did he get so far as to actually enact any laws that would strip the Catholic Church of its status?

Try right clicking on any Adobe document and using the "zoom tools" to size it. :glasses:

 

[A.Hidalgo]

Try right clicking on any Adobe document and using the "zoom tools" to size it. :glasses:

I still say he owes me a cold one.lol:cheeky:

 

[Ogre of the Caribbean]

Try right clicking on any Adobe document and using the "zoom tools" to size it. :glasses:

I'm working in Asia. When I was trying to adjust the Adobe format, little windows would pop up with options to "click" on in Korean. I didn't want to click on something if I didn't know what it was.

Okay, I agree, I owe Thanatos a cold one.

 

[Ogre of the Caribbean]

Myth vs Reality

But, on the other hand, the Church went against Trujillo toward the end. At one point SDQ's leading cleric was effectively under house arrest due to the pressure on Trujillo from Rome.
Am not apologizing for the excesses of the Mother Church but even they were apalled by Trujillo. Of course the US was also stirring the pot at that time too.
As we all know, the Roman Church has an enormous influence in the DR - some good some not so good. They are, of course, homophoebic, anti-choice, into drug demonology yet they have championed the crime crackdown and have weighed in heavily against government corruption.
That's the church for you.

The Catholic Church does not a have a very good record under Trujillo. For the most part, they turned a blind eye to Trujillo's well known cruelties. When the Pope signed the 1954 agreement, he also decorated Trujillo with one of Rome's highest Papal Decorations. General Arturo Espaillat, a vicious intelligence operative, was decorated with the order of St. Gregory by the Pope as well.

1960 was a brutal year for the Catholic Church in the Dominican Republic. Trujillo savaged the Church relentlessly. However in January of 1961, the Church ordered another document to be read that attempted to make amends with Trujillo. Trujillo would have none of it. El Jefe's mental state was so erratic as to make the Church's attempts at mending fences extremely difficult. I think the Catholic Church was unprepared for Trujillo's reaction. The Catholic Church's 1960 attack on Trujillo did severly damaged his Regime's credibilty, but the Church did not have enough ifluence to topple him. I believe that is why the Church tried to modify its postion.

Trujillo was dead a few months later. It was Trujillo who kept the war going with the Catholic Church, not the other way around. Even at the very end, the Church tried to back away from conflict with Trujillo.

I think they Church would like people to forget exactly what went on during the Era of Trujillo, especially the final year.

 

[A.Hidalgo]

Similar comportment of the Catholic Church was duplicated in many Latin American countries where military dictatorships had power.

 

[Rick Snyder]

The fact that Rome didn?t have a good record under Trujillo is no different then the record they had under Hitler. Everything they do is self serving as is any government but they get away with it around the world as it is disguised as a religion. It is because of its position as a religion that I don?t like to discuss it on this board because of the sentiments it entails and the rules of this board.

The fact that the Dominican Republic is a democracy with a constitution that clearly states the separation of church and state should be a clear indication as to the desires of the framers of said constitution. The purpose is not to abolish religion but to place it outside the workings of the state and to afford it all the same rights that the citizens have.

Living in a democracy your religious affiliation may play a role in how you think concerning some or all matters within the operation of the state but it shouldn?t be allowed to rule in those matters. A classic example of this is the law passed here within the last two years that allows other churches, other then the catholic, to perform weddings. The catholic church was up-in-arms about that bill because it went against the concordat but the bill passed. With other religions allowed to marry people then the possibility of divorce is now an option to those that were married by one of the other religions.

Another example is in this new penal code bill working its way through the system. Even if you are the type of person that is reverently against abortion you must admit that there may be times that an abortion is warranted. Such as when the physical life of the mother is in danger and no other medical procedure is available, or in the case of severe fetal anomalies incompatible with life. Or what of a young girl who becomes pregnant through incest or another that is raped. I would think that there are times when an abortion becomes necessary but with the present law there is never a time when an abortion is allowed. Common sense would seem to dictate otherwise. If all the members of congress vote with their religious conscience without putting intelligent thought into their decisions then religion is running the state. It is this religious conscience and the church that caused the bill to be passed but the president has enough common sense to know it is wrong and sent it back. Watch to see which wins this battle, common sense or religion.

This holds true in the education system as well. The fact that the church is well established, has many churches and many patrons should serve a sufficient base for the continuation of the religion. The fact that the children are mandated to learn and study only cristianity in the schools and are subject to failure and being held back if they fail to pass said course flies in the face of modern day reasoning and the constitution of the DR.

There is a good reason that the better governments of this world have a separation of church and state but not here in the DR. That lack of separation here is due to the concordat.

Rick

 

[cobraboy]

The fact that the children are mandated to learn and study only cristianity in the schools and are subject to failure and being held back if they fail to pass said course flies in the face of modern day reasoning and the constitution of the DR.

Rick

On a trip last year, we went to visit my fiances elderly aunt in Jarabacoa, who is a nun. I was most surprised to find she runs a publicly funded "school" as a Catholic school, on the Catholic church grounds.

You'd NEVER see that in the states...

 

[lilredrooster]

Bush

Perhaps you've not seen Bush's agenda?
Its all over the place in the US, the funding of
'parochial' schools with public money. It's
Madam Bush's lot in life, her passion, to make
everyone a bible thumper. Was working pretty
well for her until Mr. Christian right Reed got
popped with the Abramof (sp?) lobbying scandal.
Now she and Mr. President are doing the Texas
2-step to survive and leave a more dignant legacy.
It ain't working.

 

[cobraboy]

Perhaps you've not seen Bush's agenda?
Its all over the place in the US, the funding of
'parochial' schools with public money. It's
Madam Bush's lot in life, her passion, to make
everyone a bible thumper. Was working pretty
well for her until Mr. Christian right Reed got
popped with the Abramof (sp?) lobbying scandal.
Now she and Mr. President are doing the Texas
2-step to survive and leave a more dignant legacy.
It ain't working.

Oh really?

Care to cite some FACTS instead of Left-Wing Moonbat rantings? Can you name ONE "parochial" school the Feds are funding? I'll be waiting...

Funding of public schools is the responsibility of the state, not Feds. The Feds send $$$ to the states, not directly to schools; you don't comply with the Feds guidelines, you don't get their $$$, so states comply.

Even private schools in FL that accept "school vouchers" (Charter Schools) must comply with state dictates. Here-take a peek:

http://www.firn.edu/doe/eeop/flcharter.html

 

[bilijou]

I know this is off topic, but I want to say something about this...
The separation between Church and State gets tedious when it comes to "school vouchers", be it on the Federal or State level. The fact is that the government is directly paying a religious organization.

Honestly, I dont care about this. What I do care about is what is being taught. As long as Evolution is taught, which GWB leans against, I don't mind religious organizations running schools. It's all about state tests to make sure everything is taught. As for DR, from my experience I've seen private Catholic schools tending to become more secular when they feel the competition.

 

[Rick Snyder]

Here is an article concerning a request for the intervention of the church.

Make sure you read the comment to the editor also.

Rick

 

[lilredrooster]

no more fly boy

last msg for me on this, but Cobra u might check out
theocracywatch.org/faith-base

ur're a righty I'm guessing and i'm a lefty so no need to even start
sparring. won't change a thing. ciao

 

[Everett]

A number of charter schools in Florida are nauseatingly Christian - they are supported by the "voucher" system.
As well, Bushistas would dearly love to link religion and political life- even the apologists for them can not dispute that.
The issue in the DR is that the Romans are losing ground to the faster growing evangelicals. The Episcopalians have been growing their schools since Bishop Holguin took over the Diocese which may put pressure on the traditional parochial schools. The latter two have been the beneficiary of massive amounts of donations from outside the country to build their presence in the DR. I notice too the presence of the LDS church and plenty of Baptists on the ground.
The Romans do have a checkered history well before Hitler. The Holy Roman Empire that was neither holy nor Roaman?
Never the less, the church is well institionalized in the DR. They clearly enjoy a priveledged position even to the level of effecting policy.
A Roman priest told me once, however, that he only sees most of his parishoners when they are born, marry and die.
Yet the Romans still have the strongest juju.

 

[cobraboy]

last msg for me on this, but Cobra u might check out
theocracywatch.org/faith-base

ur're a righty I'm guessing and i'm a lefty so no need to even start
sparring. won't change a thing. ciao

Wrong. I'm a staunch Libertarian-neither right nor left...I know my place is correct when both the right and left give me grief :glasses:

I deal in facts, no bias. The facts are that the US Federal government does NOT give $$$ to parochial schools like the DR government does. Faith Based Charities (virtually all 501C3's, if they want to apply for Federal Grants) are NOT the same as parochial schools. Dislike Bush all you want, just don't spread non-facts and propaganda to support your opinion.

I stand by the facts in my response to your initial post.

"ciao"