Dominican American Experience

[DRDone]

While the West Indian migrants aren't the success story of two decades ago, welfare usage is lower than it is among Dominican immigrants. Median household incomes are higher, and home ownership much higher.

Reasons for this. A higher % of migrants with high school completion, far higher female involvement in the labor force (many are nurses), and of course arriving not only speaking English, but having a better understanding of the Anglo American work culture.

An interesting comparison will be comparing Haitian and Dominican immigrants into NYC. BOTH arriving with English language deficiencies.
32% of Haitians are home owners, whereas only 7% of Dominicans are.
Only 20% of Haitians arrive without high school education, whereas 45% of Dominicans do (this being the key factor for Dominicans, as they are among the least educated immigrants into NYC).
19% of Haitians have at least a college degree, whereas only 13% of Dominicans do (indications are that this is higher than among non Immigrants blacks and Puerto Ricans in NYC). Related to this 20% of Dominican kids fail to graduate high school whereas only 6% of Haitians are in this category.
33% of Dominicans live in poverty whereas only 17% of Haitians do.
The median household income in 2011 for Haitians was $49k, whereas it was only $25k for Dominicans.
Haitians also had higher English proficiency than did Dominicans, with over 50% speaking it "very well" compared to just 30% of Dominicans.

Interestingly enough less than 10% of Dominicans were on public assistance. While this was way above average for all groups in NYC, it puts a lie to the myth that most Dominicans in NYC are on welfare. I don't know if food stamps is included in this.

The big determining fact in success appears to be educational levels. Even though Haitians arrive with English language deficiencies, they only slightly under perform Jamaicans in terms of their socio economic status. In fact both Haitians and Jamaicans are MORE likely to be home owners, and have HIGHER median household incomes than immigrants on the whole, even though they are slightly LESS educated than the average immigrant.

So the second determining factor is female involvement in the labor force and their success in earning decent incomes. BOTH Haitian and Jamaican females perform quite well as immigrants in the labor force, both in terms of their employment, and in terms of what they earn. Dominican females much less so. I don't know if there is some thing cultural there.

Wow, that was a great post. Actual comparisons that would give proper perspective of the issue being discussed. Don't think I've ever seen that on DR1.
I think there are major cultural issues in the DR that are more extreme in the DR than anywhere else. When living in FL there were many Haitians, and they in general seemed to have a great work ethic, and I never felt any scamming in any interaction with them. It is an immigrant population that is working hard to achieve success, even though it may not have been the riches they expected initially.
That last point is important. Dominicans resolutions to problems is to ignore them and blame the person pointing out the truth then dealing with the actual problem at hand, whether it be education (basic literacy), crime and MURDERS, work ethic, or anything, you will always just get the scam response that it is everywhere.
Maybe because Haitians are the under class in the DR, it gives Dominicans some sort of superiority complex and just think pretending to know or do things is the way to be successful, rather than actually learning or doing. There is something uniquely backwards with Dominican culture even in comparison to lesser economic countries.
Solution: Do not spread this mindset, it is a disease.

 

[the gorgon]

Wow, that was a great post. Actual comparisons that would give proper perspective of the issue being discussed. Don't think I've ever seen that on DR1.
I think there are major cultural issues in the DR that are more extreme in the DR than anywhere else. When living in FL there were many Haitians, and they in general seemed to have a great work ethic, and I never felt any scamming in any interaction with them. It is an immigrant population that is working hard to achieve success, even though it may not have been the riches they expected initially.
That last point is important. Dominicans resolutions to problems is to ignore them and blame the person pointing out the truth then dealing with the actual problem at hand, whether it be education (basic literacy), crime and MURDERS, work ethic, or anything, you will always just get the scam response that it is everywhere.
Maybe because Haitians are the under class in the DR, it gives Dominicans some sort of superiority complex and just think pretending to know or do things is the way to be successful, rather than actually learning or doing. There is something uniquely backwards with Dominican culture even in comparison to lesser economic countries.
Solution: Do not spread this mindset, it is a disease.

i agree with you that the poster caribNY gave us a great posting. very informed, insightful, analytical, and just plain great.

as to home ownership...go to places like Shrub Oak and New City, in Rockland County, and see how many Haitians are living large in those areas, in homes they own. there is no Dominican equivalent.

 

[caribNY]

. There is something uniquely backwards with Dominican culture even in comparison to lesser economic countries.
Solution: Do not spread this mindset, it is a disease.

The only cultural issue that I thought that might have been relevant is the fact that Haitian and Jamaican females, at all educational levels, have higher labor force participation than Dominicans. That leads to higher household incomes. What all three groups have in NYC are high female headed households.

 

[caribNY]

i agree with you that the poster caribNY gave us a great posting. very informed, insightful, analytical, and just plain great.

as to home ownership...go to places like Shrub Oak and New City, in Rockland County, and see how many Haitians are living large in those areas, in homes they own. there is no Dominican equivalent.

That is because the Dominican elites apparently don't migrate to the degree that Haitians, Jamaicans and others do. So the ess educated segment dominate the Dominican migrant populations.

An opposite factor is the degree to which Dominican business owners dominate their neighborhoods in Upper Manhattan, and to a lesser degree, in The Bronx. Only Cubans can match that.

 

[AlterEgo]

That is because the Dominican elites apparently don't migrate to the degree that Haitians, Jamaicans and others do. So the ess educated segment dominate the Dominican migrant populations.

An opposite factor is the degree to which Dominican business owners dominate their neighborhoods in Upper Manhattan, and to a lesser degree, in The Bronx. Only Cubans can match that.

Excellent point about the businesses. It's also true in Philadelphia and Atlantic City environs. Lots of bodegas, small restaurants and a million hair salons.

 

[irishpaddy]

It's too bad that the thread got derailed by this idiocy as I would really appreciate some insight; I know nothing about this or why things seem to go so badly for Dominicans in the USA, in my country there are so very many immigrant success stories, including immigrants from the developing world.
Is it "ghettoization"? Lack of support? Even uneducated immigrants in Canada oftentimes do just fine, they work their @sses off and live together in rooming house type of arrangements.

I think you answered it yourself....WORKED THEIR ASSES OFF...that is the difference

 

[Derfish]

the problem with Dominican immigration is that it is not a brain drain. the schools in the british caribbean produce too many educated people in comparison to job availability, so a lot of the better brains in the country flee to places like the UK and the USA to find work. the DR, on the other hand, sends hordes of uneducated, unprepared people to the developed world, and it is difficult to get into the mainstream of decent paying jobs, especially with the language barrier. so, at least for the first generation, they are stuck with the same things they did back home...hairdresser, barber, handyman, fast food server. because their relatives in the Heights take pictures of themselves standing beside a Bentley, in Shrub Oak, and tell Belkis that it is their car, and their neighborhood, people believe that they will no longer peeling potatoes in a comedor, but supervising a department of Microsoft. they go home for vacation dressed in suits they rented from a pawnshop, and which are due the day they get back from vacation. the rubes back home all want to be on the outbound flight with them.

reality sets in , real fast.

I have seen new immigrants in the lot of a new car dealer taking pics of each other to send back home to show how successful they are. Then the poor folks back home long all the more to go to Miami, While in truth the eight persons taking pics of each other all live in one one bedroom apartment. And they didn't have a $400.00 car between them.

 

[bob saunders]

I think another difference is most Dominicans go to other countries with the intention of returning. Most Haitians don't plan on going back. This mind set means most wouldn't buy homes even if they had the resources.

 

[pauleast]

I think another difference is most Dominicans go to other countries with the intention of returning. Most Haitians don't plan on going back. This mind set means most wouldn't buy homes even if they had the resources.

Precisely !

 

[caribNY]

I think another difference is most Dominicans go to other countries with the intention of returning. Most Haitians don't plan on going back. This mind set means most wouldn't buy homes even if they had the resources.

That certainly explains lower home ownership, though one can only wonder how many Dominicans really return home.

It doesn't explain lower median household incomes. Lower female labor force participation, and lower educational attainment does.

 

[bob saunders]

That certainly explains lower home ownership, though one can only wonder how many Dominicans really return home.

It doesn't explain lower median household incomes. Lower female labor force participation, and lower educational attainment does.

True but could also be lots of unreported income as well. I know one Dominican woman that owns her Duplex in Yonkers, has a good job at Macys (union), has two children both professionals. They all are Americans, so would they be surveyed as Dominicans or Americans.
Older Dominicans return home more often than younger ones as they aren't as assimilated. My wife's niece has American residency but chooses to live and go to school in Santo Domingo as her husband has a good job in the capital.

 

[Commander Ooh La La USN]

The only cultural issue that I thought that might have been relevant is the fact that Haitian and Jamaican females, at all educational levels, have higher labor force participation than Dominicans. That leads to higher household incomes. What all three groups have in NYC are high female headed households.

Im not sure how relevant it is because they ALL do low skilled labor, what I call The Servant Class(Slave jobs). So they are all technically earning the same amount of money.
Another thing not spoken is HOW MUCH ARE THEY sending home? And living expenses? Haitians, Jamaicans, other Caribbeans are relegated to residing in the Black communities in NYC so they may be pooling their collective input about America and how to take advantages of systems and programs. Because these Non-Dominican Caribbean can only be successful by merging their existence into enclaves already established by US Black folks. So for a Haitian or Trinidadian, becoming a homeowner in Broward County, Fl or West Orange, NJ is only possible because of the fka "Colored Communities" that had existed there before the change in Immigration laws in the 1960s.

It may be that some Dominicans arent taking advantage of this ethnic corrollation with US Black folks and this ia hindering their successes. As well as culturally thinking every one else is supposed to toil but they are solely meant to enjoy the fruits of someone elses splendor?

 

[Commander Ooh La La USN]

I have seen new immigrants in the lot of a new car dealer taking pics of each other to send back home to show how successful they are. Then the poor folks back home long all the more to go to Miami, While in truth the eight persons taking pics of each other all live in one one bedroom apartment. And they didn't have a $400.00 car between them.

I do recall that was my experience living in Miami. I lived in Hialeah and everyone Cuban, Guatamalan, Filipino or other wise was putting on airs. Living in a boarding house but driving a reasonably young and stylish car. They could tell people back home they were doing good but they were all just treading water.

 

[rfp]

The Dominican American experience is a debacle. This is especially the case in New York. Florida is better but I would prefer to be Colombian or Rican than self identify as a Dominican. Where I live now, most people dont even know what a Dominican is. I like it that way, people just think Im a Mexican who scored a white wife

 

[pkaide1]

If there is any group in the US that knows how to take advantage of and milk "the system" it is certainly the current generation of Dominican immigrants. They are absolutely amazing at it. My knowledge about this is direct and not generalized.

You are so wrong. Dominican have learned how to milk the system here and there a little bit, but they fall short
when it comes to the Government, Caucasians, Jews and Wall Street. These four groups have been milking the system
at a whole different lever for years.

 

[GinzaGringo]

We need to wait ten, twenty, thirty years to judge how successful the Dominican migrant waves have been. Over that time period there will be Dominicans who become doctors and lawyers and engineers and business owners. There will also be Dominicnans who become bums. I will say this though, in my experience, Dominicans do not value education in general. That is a problem. There is not a robust culture of intellectualism in Dominican society. There are exceptions, of course. But the run of the mill Dominican is more interested in cultural garbage than knowledge.

 

[Commander Ooh La La USN]

We need to wait ten, twenty, thirty years to judge how successful the Dominican migrant waves have been. Over that time period there will be Dominicans who become doctors and lawyers and engineers and business owners. There will also be Dominicnans who become bums. I will say this though, in my experience, Dominicans do not value education in general. That is a problem. There is not a robust culture of intellectualism in Dominican society. There are exceptions, of course. But the run of the mill Dominican is more interested in cultural garbage than knowledge.

No you dont. Dominicans have been coming to the USA since the mid-60s. My brother in law back then came to NY in 1977 on a musician visa. It only takes one generation to track progress. The people who came here in the mid 70s in their 20s are in their 60s now.

When I was upstate at in the SUNY system there were alot of Dominican students. Luisa went onto to the University of Chicago grad school. Amalfi couldnt have graduated if I didnt help her on her written language proficiency examination that was required of all graduating students(thats right, she cheated, but that was 1996 so sue...her). Now what became of them after college I dont know. If the trend is the same generally then the women may have gone on to professional programs and then got a government job and the men tried to get whatever they could with a good salary.

 

[Garyexpat]

'I've met a few deportees here who range from together enough (you'd never think) to absolute messes? What seems to go wrong for them in the USA?"

I wouldn't judge the success or failure of Dominicans in the states based on sankies and DP's. There are plenty of successful Dominicans who assimilate and prosper in the states. I lived and ran a business in N.Y. with quite a few Dominican employees (including Danilo's brother Angel). The majority of DP's did time for drug charges. The quick lure of big $$$ attracts people from all nationalities/race etc.

 

[CristoRey]

The Dominican American experience? Why not the Dominican Canadian experience?
All in favor... say I.

 

[bonao99]

i agree with you that the poster caribNY gave us a great posting. very informed, insightful, analytical, and just plain great.

as to home ownership...go to places like Shrub Oak and New City, in Rockland County, and see how many Haitians are living large in those areas, in homes they own. there is no Dominican equivalent.

Wrong
A few dominicans own houses in Alpine ,Bronxville, Franklin lakes and westbury. all business owners. I will
be very surprised to find Haitians owing in Alpine or Franklin Lakes. Remember majority od dominicans
buy a house in the island before thinking of buying in the US.