Kajuilito I understand your effort in trying to defend us Dominicans and sanctifying our behavior, specially abroad. Hiding behind laws and regulations does not make us any better. We are and act as a second class community abroad, because we live and stay in ghettos even when we are financially successful to uproot into the mainstream. Why do we want to hang on to our culture so much that we feel that the foreign culture we invade becomes a blockade? Our "libertinaje" does not fit abroad, except in other banana reps like us. Why are we complaining that Haitians are destroying our forests to sell "carbon"? Why is coincidentally the dominican prison population abroad the same number as our prison count in DR jails when we are four times as many here than abroad. That just shows our worst elements are invading those nations abusing and using their laws to obtain benefits and strain their social systems. How many Dominicans just lost their visas yesterday for abusing that priviledge? Stop apologizing for us. We definetly abuse welfare, medicare, medicaid, etc. Even our professionals in New York are being accused of defrauding medicare. We can boast of a Dominican senator who used mafia tactics to silence our women in the press while defrauding medicare in New York. And to boot this guy has never voted present in the senate chambers!
- Thread starter minerva_feliz
- Start date
Dominican Immigrants in the U.S.: Poverty, Education and Welfare
ok. you win.
i suppose what you want to hear is dominicans are trash. we are worthless users and abusers who will never amount to anything and never make any progress, unlike the saintly americans. there are no decent dominicans. not even you (or maybe you think youre the only exception? who knows). and our politicians are the most rotten, corrupt ones on the planet.
the u.s. is glory. they do no wrong. they are perfect and we should all aspire to their greatness even if it was achieved by being corrupt and two-faced and abusive on a global scale. we should focus on being THEIR version of corrupt because at least it keeps the commoners more appeased and the money flowing.
happy now?
ok? i give up.
i suppose what you want to hear is dominicans are trash. we are worthless users and abusers who will never amount to anything and never make any progress, unlike the saintly americans. there are no decent dominicans. not even you (or maybe you think youre the only exception? who knows). and our politicians are the most rotten, corrupt ones on the planet.
the u.s. is glory. they do no wrong. they are perfect and we should all aspire to their greatness even if it was achieved by being corrupt and two-faced and abusive on a global scale. we should focus on being THEIR version of corrupt because at least it keeps the commoners more appeased and the money flowing.
happy now?
ok? i give up.
Believe it or not, some people actually has that same attitude towards Dominicans hard-printed in their minds. They just don't say it so blunt as it is not PC.
Some stats regarding incarceration rates in general:
1 in 99 Americans, (men and women) are behind bars as of 2008. Among men ages 20-34, all races, it is 1 in 30. It is the highest incarceration rate in history, across the board.
Sorry, still not prepared to self-flagellate about my sin of ethnic pride until I pop the wannabe, blue contact lenses right out of my head. Perhaps some day, with Bwana and his houseboys' help, I will be fully indoctrinated and finally come to my senses and realize that I have to completely espouse, emulate, assimilate non-Latino culture, demonize my own culture and eradicate (exorcise?) that which makes me me.
Dominican - bad
White - good (Sarcasm)
Spit out the Kool-Aid before you are swallow the poison of self-hatred.
There is nothing wrong with ethnic pride - flaunt it! I know I'm going to ramble a bit....but I have to say this. We all know that there are good and bad in EVERY culture, and there is much to be said about how so many Latinos live and work together in neighborhoods, preserving their heritage at the same time. When my 4 Italian born grandparents moved to NY they experienced much the same prejudice that Dominicans do. It was bad. There was no equal-opportunity then. In many places there were 3 pay-scales with decreasing pay: #1 whites, #2 blacks, #3 Italians. Many became ashamed of their ethnicity. They were pressured to 'speak English' and assimilate. Too many of them did just that. My father never even learned Italian, my mother (a proud Sicilian) was ridiculed for being Italian. My brother and I were raised "American", the only Italian I learned were a few curses. At least my family kept their Italian surnames, I can't tell you how many "Americanized" them to fit in. Forget the Italian culture, it's mostly gone in the US, along with their ethnic pride. I lost a lot of my heritage because we didn't live in an Italian neighborhood in NY. I regret that.
The Dominicans I know in the US speak Spanish in their homes. Their children are fully bi-lingual. Most will not be pressured into being Americanized. Their culture is alive and well. When we got my sister-in-law her green-card about 20 years ago, she came to live with us. She was bored, she missed her people. She moved to Washington Heights and now Philadelphia, preferring to live her life surrounded by Dominicans. Her daughters are fully bi-lingual, college educated and well adjusted. Are there crooks and criminals among the Dominican immigrants? Of course. Just as there were crooks and criminals in every ethnic group who preceded them to the USA, including mine. My husband and I have 2 children. Our son looks Italian and stupifies Dominicans when he opens his mouth and speaks just like them. Our daughter is a clone of her father, and people don't understand why she can't speak Spanish very well. We raised them to be proud of both their ethnicities, and I think we succeeded. Our 3 yr old grandson (son of the daughter who can't speak Spanish and regrets it every day) is on his way to being bi-lingual, even tho he's only 1/4 Dominican - on Sunday he ran to his grandfather and said "Hola papa, como esta??" I can't tell you how proud Papa was when he heard that. We won't make the mistakes of my ancestors. Our grandkids will be proud of ALL the blood flowing through their veins.
AE
Good for you, AE!!!!!
Having ethnic pride is a wonderful thing as long as you do not take it to the extreme that you do not respect and adapt to your host country or demand that your host country conform to your culture. I have never suggested that. I have never espoused bilingual education,for example, since English is the language every other ethnicity in the US had to master. Why should we be any different? Also, even though I appreciate that Spanish is so widely used, I would have been more than happy for the US to have turned bilingual like Canada - no matter what the second language might be. It is my personal belief that all children should be bilingual. I could care less what that second language is = Mandarin Chinese, Urdu, Hindi. I think it is shameful that most Americans speak only one language when many other countries speak several fluently.
I know many Italians are very proud of their culture and why not? Yours is a very rich culture. It is only when a particular group embraces their culture to the extreme of being intolerant of other cultures - that's when the trouble starts. Your Italian/Dominican kids must be so very cute. Not to mention, well-adjusted and confident.
I hope I do not offend you but I know what you mean as I have noticed that Italian-Americans seem to be very different than the Italians born in Italy. My mother who has visited Italy and loved it, seconds my opinion.
Bravissimo!!!
Loved your post. Written by a Mommy that clearly loves and has raised two wonderful, productive bicultural kids.
Having ethnic pride is a wonderful thing as long as you do not take it to the extreme that you do not respect and adapt to your host country or demand that your host country conform to your culture. I have never suggested that. I have never espoused bilingual education,for example, since English is the language every other ethnicity in the US had to master. Why should we be any different? Also, even though I appreciate that Spanish is so widely used, I would have been more than happy for the US to have turned bilingual like Canada - no matter what the second language might be. It is my personal belief that all children should be bilingual. I could care less what that second language is = Mandarin Chinese, Urdu, Hindi. I think it is shameful that most Americans speak only one language when many other countries speak several fluently.
I know many Italians are very proud of their culture and why not? Yours is a very rich culture. It is only when a particular group embraces their culture to the extreme of being intolerant of other cultures - that's when the trouble starts. Your Italian/Dominican kids must be so very cute. Not to mention, well-adjusted and confident.
I hope I do not offend you but I know what you mean as I have noticed that Italian-Americans seem to be very different than the Italians born in Italy. My mother who has visited Italy and loved it, seconds my opinion.
Bravissimo!!!
Loved your post. Written by a Mommy that clearly loves and has raised two wonderful, productive bicultural kids.
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I lived for over 35 years in a city populated by Spaniards over 100 years ago, then had an influx of Cubanos in the late 50's.
I have many, many friends there with Spanish surnames. I've observed something very interesting: the immigramts speak their native tongue and adapt to survival English. The first generation spoke Spanish in the home, and English elsewhere...with a strong accent. The second generation spoke English primarily as their first language, but could speak Spanish with their grandparents, English with their parents My friends and peers). The third generation hardly speak Spanish (my friends kids). I have friends with typical Spanish names who don't speak Spanish.
But Tampa never really embraced Spanish enclaves. They just spread all over the city. They may have pride in their heritage, but became cultural Americans as much as anyone including language. They are a classic example of assimilation.
Good point Bob. Some very white Dominicans. But I think she meant 'white' as in 'gringo'/'non-Latino' though.
I can kind of identify in a weird sort of way. My best friends as a little girl were Irish blondes with blue eyes. My brother was so blonde it was almost white. Almost all my many cousins were blondes. I was born with very dark brown hair, and always felt self-conscious about it because my family always commented on how pretty blonde/honey colored hair was. To me that meant mine must be ugly, so I felt ugly. It's not good to feel 'different', whether it be skin or hair color.
I always cringe when I hear a Dominican called 'moreno' or 'negrito', etc., especially if they're kids. I know it's not meant or said as an insult, but I can't help but wonder if those kids feel self conscious when reminded repeatedly of their complexion [or their weight, etc.]
You'd think I'd get used to it after so many years.
AE
I'll probably get into trouble with this....but....IMO most of the Cubans who emigrated to Florida in the 50s were white European looking types, who may have had an easier time assimilating. Andy Garcias and Gloria Estefans. And they couldn't go home. Also, it's important to remember that during the 50's & 60's [when I grew up] assimilation was stressed and accomplished. The Dominicans came much later. And they came behind the Puerto Ricans, who themselves were not welcomed with anything resembling open arms. Most didn't look European either. They also have traveled back and forth to DR repeatedly, maintaining their culture - whereas the Italians, Germans, Irish, Poles, etc. who came to the US in the early 20th century rarely went back to their birth countries. It simply was too expensive and too time consuming until air travel was common after WWII, and by then they were old and their parents deceased back in the old country. They had a greater stake in America.
I think the Dominicans who have come to the US in the past 30 years will prove to be much more ethnic for several generations than those groups who migrated before them.
Time will tell.
AE
Recently Yris and I went to visit the woman in Santo Domingo who did some work formatting Yris's book and arranging for the publisher. She was self described as black. We got a ride with Yris's cousin's husband who is Eddy Murphy looking. When we arrived home after meeting with the lady, Elias described her to his wife as a prieta, somewhat Ironic, considering she was lighter skinned than him. I just thought she was attractive and intelligent, as well as a good host. So the two dark people were conscious about her colour where as neither my wife or I really though about it. I know my certainly uses morenita...etc to describe people to others if she doesn't know their names so it must be ingrained in the Dominican Culture. I was a blonde growing up and I don't recall anyone I knew making comments negative towards people with blonde, red, or black hair but perhaps I just wasn't observant.
Those I know are European Spaniards. The Cubanos were late comers and although more "European looking" had to prove themselves to the entrenched Spaniards. In fact, there was some fairly harsh treatment of the trouble-makers from the Mariel lift...like body-of-known-criminal-dumped-in-the-street-as-a-message harsh. The Spaniards in Tampa were known for "taking care of their own." Italians, too. Tampa wasn't really a "white city" until the invention of air conditioning...
Do you think living in an ethnic enclave in a foreign land is the best way to assimilate in any country? Could that be why some immigrants have a more difficult time? Like Dominicans in Washington Heigts?
I know a bunch of Dominicans of all shades living in Orlando and Dade County doing a fine job of assimilation.
I had red hair until my early 20's.
I took plenty of heat for that.
I thought my name outside the neighborhood was "Red"...
I don't think it's better Cobraboy, just very different. For lack of a better comparison, Italian Americans my age who grew up in Brooklyn's Bensonhurst, Bay Ridge or even Queens' Howard Beach are VERY different than Italian Americans like me who grew up in other parts of NYC or Long Island. They talk differently, they act differently, they live differently. They even dress differently. You can't compare Orlando with Washington Heights. You CAN compare Washington Heights with Bensonhurst, both are very ethnic enclaves. My husband is very assimilated in most things, but we've never lived in a Latino neighborhood and he's worked for 30+ years in an Atlantic City casino. He's been an American citizen for 28+ years, keeps himself very informed with US politics and news, but a day doesn't go by that he doesn't visit Rep?blica Dominicana Completa. Portal Dominicano to read all the Dominican news. His sister has been here 20+ years, and if you met her you'd think she arrived this week. She's also an American citizen, but not an assimilated bone in her body.
I totally believe in assimilation, but not at the cost of your own ethnic identity. When in Rome, and all that.....
AE
P
poponlaburra
Guest
Well thanks God for that report!!
It is to our advantage the report represent us that poor, other wise there would be lot of jelous people coming after us to get our money We need to kep sending money back home to our families and banks, and of course buying beatiful homes back in Quisqueya la Bella.
It is to our advantage the report represent us that poor, other wise there would be lot of jelous people coming after us to get our money We need to kep sending money back home to our families and banks, and of course buying beatiful homes back in Quisqueya la Bella.
I just came back from DR, my first trip after I moved to Us in April 2008, This short vacation changed my mind about the paradise, I found every thing different, I don't understander how living all my life in the DR I didn't see so many problems that I noticed during this week, I was upset to see in the poverty in what most people live in my country, how dirty is the neighborhood where I grew up in Santiago. I got really sad about all theses problems, but more sad I was when the air plane took off and I could see through the window that I was leaving back my family over there.
Tears came out of my eyes.
Now I know that I'll have to assimilate the American customs and as soon as possible to I will start the immigration process to bring my two daughters and my mom to the States.
JJ
Tears came out of my eyes.
Now I know that I'll have to assimilate the American customs and as soon as possible to I will start the immigration process to bring my two daughters and my mom to the States.
JJ
You sound like my husband JJ. He always looks forward to going to DR [we usually go a couple of times a year, a couple of weeks each time] and within a day or two of getting there he's complaining about the life, the government, the traffic, the poverty, the tigures, the danger in the streets, etc. This time we're going for a month, and renting an apartment instead of staying at a hotel, to see if it's really where we want to retire [soon]. Sometimes he's ready to go home after a week, and sometimes neither of us wants to leave. Years ago we sponsored his sister and one brother, the sister came, the brother turned in his green card because he knew he'd never want to live here, and the rest of the family never wanted to come to the US except for visits.
AE