- Thread starter jsizemore
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DR should be top dog
Hillbilly said:
I was basing this comment on physical attributes people have of "Third world" countries. You know, slums composed of shacks, the haves and have nots, large countryside population creating exodus into the cities to find cramped living quarters, little kids working 10 hours days, sweat shops, dirt, filth, pollution, corruption in government, etc. In fact, the US was what today would be considered "third world" that the country functioned with out a real central bank for years! In fact, Pierpont Morgan (the founder of JP Morgan) was the unofficial central bank of the US bailing bankrupted NYC twice and the feds in Washington, in addition to getting its Washington folks to suspend the anti acquisition laws when Pierpont wanted to gobbled up the Tennessee Steal Company, for the sole reason of gobbling it up!
BTW, get your hands (and this goes to whomever wants to accept this) on the book named "The House of Morgan", forgot author. It focuses on JP Morgan and how that company's effort basically made the US into the financial powerhouse (and more importantly NYC) that it is today! It's a documentary of that company and its leaders who were really the leaders of the US at that time. Anything they said and wanted materialzed, even if it was against the law.
stewart said:
Trujillo's last years were around or near the Kennedy time period. Keep in mind that Trujillo was probably the only Dictator in the world that had Washington government officials in HIS pocket. He constantly splashed them with bribes and "gifts" in return for US support and that they did. In fact, Nixon (when he was vice-president) was once quoted telling a reported that "Trujillo may be a SOB, but at least he is our SOB". Also, the US maintain high sugar quotas for the DR during Trujillo's Era, splashing the DR with gold, much stayed in Trujillo's hand (money that disappeared into foreign banks once the Dictator was killed), but he did spent alot of it into the country building roads, the infraestructure, the economy. Trujillo was the 2nd wealthiest human in the world at the time of his death. That's how much wealth was created in the DR from Sugar alone during his 30 year reign. Billions.
I must point out that after Kennedy was killed, the vice president (forgot his name) who then became president was not very fond of the new Democratic DR and he lowered dramatically the Aid that was flowing into the DR. Kennedy was determined to turn the DR into an economic showplace to outset the Communist ambitions in the Caribbean area, his vice-president had a different agenda.
I think the same will happen with Iraq once Bush is out. Those billions droped every day will turn to pennies, corruption will take place and Iraq will become the Arab version of the DR. Hopefully I'm wrong, but that is the senerio I am seeing happening, at least for now.
NALWAHL, same old story, same old tune poor "us"
Oh the poor poor picked on Dominicans, the World should immediately send funds to promote the welfare of the people
Ever try working?
Nal0whs said:
Oh the poor poor picked on Dominicans, the World should immediately send funds to promote the welfare of the people
Ever try working?
Aid or no aid, work ethic is key !!
Even Taiwan received its fair share of US aid during the 1950's and 60's. But after the aid stopped, Taiwan didn't fall on it face. Instead, it prospered.
This is the same old story of "Give a guy a fish, feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish, feed him for life". Taiwan learned to get on its feet while the aid lasted. How ? By working its collective butt off ! By edcuating its poor mass. By teaching its own children that there are no free lunches.
For somebody who only wants aid and no work, no amount of aid is ever enough. I don't see how 3 or even 30 billion dollars can transform DR if it's not put to constructive use.
What DR needs are educated Dominicans who can tranform its society. Foreign aid, remesas and even direct Free Zone investment can only go so far.
Chris C was right about the Chinese being the "Jews of the Orient". And I personally know a doctor who got up at 3am from his home upstairs to see a patient downstairs in his clinic when the doorbell rang.
This doctor happens to be my father !
Even Taiwan received its fair share of US aid during the 1950's and 60's. But after the aid stopped, Taiwan didn't fall on it face. Instead, it prospered.
This is the same old story of "Give a guy a fish, feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish, feed him for life". Taiwan learned to get on its feet while the aid lasted. How ? By working its collective butt off ! By edcuating its poor mass. By teaching its own children that there are no free lunches.
For somebody who only wants aid and no work, no amount of aid is ever enough. I don't see how 3 or even 30 billion dollars can transform DR if it's not put to constructive use.
What DR needs are educated Dominicans who can tranform its society. Foreign aid, remesas and even direct Free Zone investment can only go so far.
Chris C was right about the Chinese being the "Jews of the Orient". And I personally know a doctor who got up at 3am from his home upstairs to see a patient downstairs in his clinic when the doorbell rang.
This doctor happens to be my father !
Formosano2000 said:Even Taiwan received its fair share of US aid during the 1950's and 60's. But after the aid stopped, Taiwan didn't fall on it face. Instead, it prospered.
This is the same old story of "Give a guy a fish, feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish, feed him for life". Taiwan learned to get on its feet while the aid lasted. How ? By working its collective butt off ! By edcuating its poor mass. By teaching its own children that there are no free lunches.
For somebody who only wants aid and no work, no amount of aid is ever enough. I don't see how 3 or even 30 billion dollars can transform DR if it's not put to constructive use.
What DR needs are educated Dominicans who can tranform its society. Foreign aid, remesas and even direct Free Zone investment can only go so far.
Chris C was right about the Chinese being the "Jews of the Orient". And I personally know a doctor who got up at 3am from his home upstairs to see a patient downstairs in his clinic when the doorbell rang.
This doctor happens to be my father !
I always found it interesting that the asian owned businesses in the DR are very successful. It's the same in the US. In poor neighborhoods in LA, the Koreans own the liqour stores etc. And do very well. While few other minorities are opening businesses.
I know a lot of the free zone factories are Asian owned. A strong work ethic would solve a lot of problems. I don't think Dominicans are lazy. I know too many that work very hard. But most of them break their backs for other peoples success. They don't really want to start their own business.
A country's success or otherwise owes a lot to the balance between what motivates its people - individualistic gain or the common good? Some individualism is natural and desirable but there has to be a healthy balance.
What I see happening in poor countries is a huge excess of individualism. The haves tend to be greedy and concerned with enriching themselves with little regard for the common good. The have-lesses and have-nots can only think about their own needs because it's simply a question of survival. Of course there are noble exceptions at both ends of the spectrum - just not enough for the balance to work in favour of both the individual and the nation as a whole.
Israel is an extreme example on all counts and is so different that it is not really worth comparing with the DR. It receives a massive amount of aid and donations from the diaspora, its people have a formidable work ethic and although society - in keeping with global trends - has become more individualistic in the last couple of decades, there are few nations whose members have been prepared to make such enormous sacrifices for the common good of its people. Corruption, although it exists, is nowhere near Latin American standards. BTW, its population is only about 5m.
I don't know enough about the Asian examples to see if they back up my arguments but I would be interested in hearing about this from Formosano and co.
Chiri
What I see happening in poor countries is a huge excess of individualism. The haves tend to be greedy and concerned with enriching themselves with little regard for the common good. The have-lesses and have-nots can only think about their own needs because it's simply a question of survival. Of course there are noble exceptions at both ends of the spectrum - just not enough for the balance to work in favour of both the individual and the nation as a whole.
Israel is an extreme example on all counts and is so different that it is not really worth comparing with the DR. It receives a massive amount of aid and donations from the diaspora, its people have a formidable work ethic and although society - in keeping with global trends - has become more individualistic in the last couple of decades, there are few nations whose members have been prepared to make such enormous sacrifices for the common good of its people. Corruption, although it exists, is nowhere near Latin American standards. BTW, its population is only about 5m.
I don't know enough about the Asian examples to see if they back up my arguments but I would be interested in hearing about this from Formosano and co.
Chiri
All of the above or....
All of the above or to summarize, the differences between Singapore and the Dominican Republic are: EDUCATION, WORK ETHIC, CORRUPTION. That, my friends, is why the DR is sadly in the shape it is and the great
potential will not be taken advantage of for many generations to come.
All of the above or to summarize, the differences between Singapore and the Dominican Republic are: EDUCATION, WORK ETHIC, CORRUPTION. That, my friends, is why the DR is sadly in the shape it is and the great
potential will not be taken advantage of for many generations to come.
Individuals
Don't you think that a wealthy person looking to become more wealthy will help others? He will need to employ more people, buy more goods and services etc. Reagan called it "tickle down" economics. More large businesses need to be owned by Dominicans
Chirimoya said:
Don't you think that a wealthy person looking to become more wealthy will help others? He will need to employ more people, buy more goods and services etc. Reagan called it "tickle down" economics. More large businesses need to be owned by Dominicans
Free trade zones could do al of the above
If the transshipments could happen then the locals would be able to have steady employment and then the success would be taught out into the hinterlands.
It will take a generation to build back a capitalistic ideal. Remember anything that happens has a price. Investment means a certain amount of exploitation. Do not resent the cost of assistance.
Regulation and legislation would create the environment to allow the transshipment port businesses needed.
John
If the transshipments could happen then the locals would be able to have steady employment and then the success would be taught out into the hinterlands.
It will take a generation to build back a capitalistic ideal. Remember anything that happens has a price. Investment means a certain amount of exploitation. Do not resent the cost of assistance.
Regulation and legislation would create the environment to allow the transshipment port businesses needed.
John
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Reganomics is not dead, in fact its just beginning!
Look at all those big businesses expanding globally.
USA is no longer the only country chock full of neon lit strip malls and box style construction. Sense of place is being lost globally with the same Mc. Donalds' architecture, box architecture, etc. being spread across borders and all foods from all places being spread all about. Notice, the Center of Santo Domingo could be anywhere in the first world for the most part!
Like I said, Reganomics is just beginning to come alive. The only problem is that money flows a little bit out of the first world into the third world and then, the ROI return very quickly to the first world, usually London or New York, crossing borders as if they didn't exist and crossing cultures as if everyone in the world acts the same. In fact, people are starting to act the same, which in a way is scary. When teenagers from Japan, India, Egypt, Italy, and America all worship the same media folks, that is very scary in someways. Everywhere you go everybody knows who Britney Spears is, everybody knows what Mc. Donald's is, every little girl on the planet wants a Barbie and every little boy dreams of being in the World Wrestling Entertainment (WWE) business.
Reganomics is good for business, but its creating a monoculture across the world that sometimes I wonder if its good. After all, many of you folks moved to the DR to get away from the first world, how would you feel if there was no getting away. Everywhere you looked people lived the same, acted the same, thought the same, were the same.
This is just something to think about.
Look at all those big businesses expanding globally.
USA is no longer the only country chock full of neon lit strip malls and box style construction. Sense of place is being lost globally with the same Mc. Donalds' architecture, box architecture, etc. being spread across borders and all foods from all places being spread all about. Notice, the Center of Santo Domingo could be anywhere in the first world for the most part!
Like I said, Reganomics is just beginning to come alive. The only problem is that money flows a little bit out of the first world into the third world and then, the ROI return very quickly to the first world, usually London or New York, crossing borders as if they didn't exist and crossing cultures as if everyone in the world acts the same. In fact, people are starting to act the same, which in a way is scary. When teenagers from Japan, India, Egypt, Italy, and America all worship the same media folks, that is very scary in someways. Everywhere you go everybody knows who Britney Spears is, everybody knows what Mc. Donald's is, every little girl on the planet wants a Barbie and every little boy dreams of being in the World Wrestling Entertainment (WWE) business.
Reganomics is good for business, but its creating a monoculture across the world that sometimes I wonder if its good. After all, many of you folks moved to the DR to get away from the first world, how would you feel if there was no getting away. Everywhere you looked people lived the same, acted the same, thought the same, were the same.
This is just something to think about.
jsizemore said:
True, Big business loved it, poor working stiffs got screwed as usual
Reagan and Bush are great for preserving the wealth of the haves, and making life miserable for working men and women
Oh, and we must not forget the very effective "Star Wars," did a great job protecting us on 9/11. bring back the cuthroat CIA of the 50's and 60's, that worked
Nal0whs said:
Please explain yoru understanding of the "Reaganomics" that is just now beginning to surface, I actually think it is Grover Cleaveland's policies beginning to take hold
Haven't most of the "Reaganomic" fast food franchises in the DR closed down? Very sucessful plan I guess
KrackedKris said:
Reaganomic = support for big business and little government
big business = globalization
globalization = homogenization
homogenization = loss of human cultural diversity
Those fast food franchises might have closed down, but American Airlines still dominates the Dominican sky, Carnival Cruiselines dominates the tourist ports, Toyota and Honda dominate the streets, and the Dollar (due to trade) dominates the Dominican economy. Again, Reaganomic's at work.
BTW, those franchises will pop up again once the economy picks up, whenever that is, but eventually it will pick up and so will the franchises. However, KFC and Baskin Robins may be having a rough time, Pollo Rey and Helados Bon are having a field day, at least compared to the foreign owned franchises. In someways, that is a good thing. Dominican companies will now gain a bigger piece of the Fast Food pie!
This reminds me, I haven't read word for word the agreement of CAFTA since its "Classified info" (hmm, wonder why if its a good thing?), but if the agreement to drop tariffs would benefit Dominican Fast Food franchise, they should really think of investing abroad, maybe moving into Central America and N. America. Especially if Dominican franchises get their supplies from the DR, they would be able to sell products similar to Mc. D's and Baskin Robin at a fraction of the current cost, which is a plus since everything is going up everywhere in the world. Why go to KFC and pay $5 Dollars for a meal, when down the street you can go into a Pollo Rey and pay only $2! See the picture, free trade at its finest- especially since Dominicans will have the opportunity to gain access and a fair share of the American Fast Food (and other) markets.
Notice, I said opportunity, meaning most people will miss it as usual in any society, but those that take advantage will prosper, at least under normal conditions and all other things remaining constant.
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Nal0whs said:
So you support big business at the expense of the working man? The priviliged continue to dominate while the poor get less, strange outlook
KrackedKris said:
I only support Dominican big business that tries and are expanding outside of the DR. Such expansion (depending on the type of business- manufacturing, services, etc) would create more job in the DR.
Sample: Rum Business
Expands into Europe and N. America. To produce more rum, it needs more molasses from Dominican fields. Those fields would need to employ more braceros (cane cutters) to cut the cane much faster, they will need to employ more truck drivers to transport the cane, they will need to employ more factory workers to convert the molasses into Rum at the factory, they will need to employ more internal accountants to keep track of things, more managers, more employees.
Repeat this scenerio with most other Dominican big business if they were to expand globally and that would help reduce unemployment first in the DR, and if the work force dries up in the process our neighbors (Haiti) could benefit as well!
That's the only type of the so called "Reagonomics" that I would support, one that would benefit the DR. I support anything that benefits the DR. However, I support Big Dominican businesses expanding abroad instead of expanding domestically, simply to give the small business owners in the DR a chance to taste the "entrepreneur" way of life. But I don't mind at all if Dominican companies make inroads in the globalized economy we have today.
I don't like the monoculture aspect of things, but globalization is here to stay and we can either complaint or embrace. I prefer to embrace it with a bias towards benefiting the DR.