Funny, what I see here is you doing your utmost to prove a link that isn't there. Why don't you have the backbone that your compatriot Gwo seems to show by not wanting to have anything to do with us? Why do you seek our approval so desperately? I already acknowledge having African ancestry by mentioning my British West Indian ancestry, and last time I saw, they were as African descended as any of us.
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Encuentre al haitiano detr?s de su apellido "Dominicano"
Funny, what I see here is you doing your utmost to prove a link that isn't there. Why don't you have the backbone that your compatriot Gwo seems to show by not wanting to have anything to do with us? Why do you seek our approval so desperately? I already acknowledge having African ancestry by mentioning my British West Indian ancestry, and last time I saw, they were as African descended as any of us.
And I should be ashamed of that?
NO mind trick, I consider myself Human
Bonao99
Bonao
NS,
I must of hit a nerve. I am not talking about your cocolo ancestry I am just stating that Gilles is a French/Haitian last name. This is about Dominicans of Haitian ancestry in the DR and to be honest Haitians with Dominican ancestry hide it as it has a negative stereotype that your mother worked in a caberet in Haiti.
La Camiona is incorrect Spanish maybe Dominican Spanish. The correct term is "la camioneta or el camion"
You seem to forget too that Gil is a Spanish surname, and that in this specific case it came to my family with a settler that came after the Restoration. I don't see how your accusation must have hit a nerve here, since I'm one of the locals who shows more interests about your country's affairs and history, which is a contrast with the general attitude of people in real life, which have one closer to the indifference analogous to the one shown by Gwo for things here.
Of course all french names would be white french names.
The Montas and Deschamps in Haiti range from white thru mulatto to black.
NS,
I have considered you as one of the educated Dominicans on this site with something to bring to the table. I enjoy reading your depth knowledge on history but more impressing deciphering it correctly without too much bias. If I offended you than I apologize.
Sincerely
Kiskeya
No, Quisqueya. "La camiona" is how most haitians pronunciate it. Of course it is incorrect. As "cara-gata" (Cara de gato) is, refering to the Bermudez rum bottle.
I know the Montas family in San Cristobal that the article refers to. They are not white.
Not all French last names come from Haiti either. A number of immigrants from Cuba to the Dominican Republic had French Surnames. May of these people had been in Cuba for only five or six generations or less. Regardless, if the people with French last names are targeted it should not be difficult to prove their heritage. My mother-in-laws' Grandmother came from Padre Las Casas to Jarabacoa over the mountain road from Constanza around the turn of the century and she was very dark skinned. When I mentioned to my wife and Melania that perhaps she had Haitian blood, their answer was possibly and it wasn't important. Back in the 1950's and 60's one could buy a Haitian child for a little as 5 pesos. These kids were adopted into Dominican families, sometimes with falsified testimony to whom was the mother and father. It will be nearly impossible to figure out who are those that have Haitian ancestry, that was illegally in the DR. perhaps in the areas around sugar cane plantations it might be easier.
Thanks. Believe me when I tell you that I would love nothing more than see an economic revival on the western part of the island, specially since I consider that you people have the best natural port in the West Indies, which is called Fort Liberte. A well crafted plan (not the all inclusive BS going on around here) would go a long way in returning it to its old magnificence. And let's not even talk about Le Cap.
Actually since Dominicans are mostly a mulatto country, hence ALSO African slave descendants (if we are fair only at 50 %, the Other 50 % will be European and others), at one part of the time they had surnames depending of their African origin ( see Larrazabal Blanco) : Bran, Congo, Zape , Senegui (for senegal) , Araras etc,etc
If you have a look at all the slave censuses on the Spanish part of la Hispaniola it was actually the case, with the time they take the surname of the masters like the AAs, people from Guadeloupe, Martinique, Haitians etc;
Some remarks :
1. Having a Spanish surname doesn't mean that you are a pure blooded Spanish, cause your native Indian, African, or mulato ancestor took the name of the Spanish master in the majority of the cases
2. Haitian slaves have been sold to Spanish Santo Domingo (under Joseph Solano around 1761), hence took also spanish surnames. The Haitian slaves refugees from San Lorenzo de Las Minas, took also Spanish surnames for sure...
3. Cibao was also a region with slaves (blacks and mulattoes) as late as early the 19th century , Campo Tavares gathered an army in the Cibao with former slaves ( their masters were really ****ed off by the way) who took part to the Haitian invasion of 1805...And when Nicolas de Ovando forbade the importation of African slaves in 1503 because they were fleeing to the Indians and associating with them, he was talking about the African slaves working in the Cibao mines/region. So actually Cibao welcomed Africans since the beginning of the colonization.
4. According to Beaubrun Ardouin who also visited Cibao it was according his own words " une r?gion o? la population est ? majorit? Africaine" , meaning that there was many blacks and mulattoes in the Cibao. I?ll gave you the exact reference of his saying (book, page)
5. Trujillo and Balaguer had Haitian ancestry and Spanish surnames, yet you have to go back in their tree to find some Haitians
Strange, cuz' Samuel Hazard, who wrote in that very same century (on his book "Santo Domingo, Past and Present with a glance at Hayti", 1873) painted a completely different picture. And one has to take into account that Hazard was an American, in other words, someone less given to make nuances around the racial mixes as a British (like Mckenzie) or French (like the consul Levasseur) would do. Hazard would come to the country as part of the commission (which also included Frederick Douglass, I believe) sent by Ulysses Grant to study a potential annexation of the country in the 1870's.
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Many French slave owners took refuge in Cuba during the Haitian revolution. Las Terrazas slave coffee plantation in Pinar del Rio region belonged to a French who fled haiti. There is a big probability that his slaves had a French surname
absolutely, but a large amount of French and Italians immigrated to Cuba after the first world war and subsequently left Cuba after Castro for nearby shores.
Even before the Cuban revolution there would be a couple of inmigration waves to these shores from that island. Namely, due to the Cuban wars of independence (Guerra Grande, 1868-1878 and Guerra Chiquita, 1895-1898). Those inmigrants would have their point of entry at Puerto Plata, and would subsequently move to the east, specially around the area of San Pedro de Macoris, due to the facilities that the gov. of Ulises Heureaux gave them to establish the sugar industry.
Yes for sure " phenotype's" estimation is on the eyes of the beholder , I'll provide the reference and his exact words + book + page : it is on the part of his book where he comments 1805 events.
However one thing need to be estimated : how many man ( former black and mulattoes slaves from the Cibao region) Campo Tavares had in his army ? Hundreds (more probable)? Thousands ?
I know a Sepulveda Family in Santiago, and Sepulveda is for sure a spanish name ( famous Juan Gin?s de Sepulveda ) yet they don't look spanish. I know also a Meijia family in that same town they surely don't look like Hippolito.
So the association Spanish Name + Cibao Region may not always = to European looking
I used to know a Jimenez family from San Juan de La Maguana, some look native indians (her mum and aunt) , other mulattoes (herself with native indian hair but african features), and other blacks (her sister and elder brother) ==> this is the Dominican nation, a mulatto nation by essence.
Yeah, but the thing is, I'm not only taking surnames into account, but also the economic regime of the region itself. Different from the cases of the south and east (were cattle ranching and wood cutting were king) the economy of the Cibao was chiefly based on tobacco plantation, which by itself involves far less intensive use of slaves, like the case of Saint Domingue/Haiti itself showed during the years from 1629 to 1695, in which the white population was the majority. A foreign observer (Hoetink, I believe) attributes the more entrepeneurial drive of the Cibae?o native vis-a-vis the rest of their compatriots due to the fact that entire families took part in the cultivation, contrary to what happened on the other cases, were one landlord had the overlordship of many peons.