Evictions in the D.R.

[rover]

First, nothing against you, but please don't "dude" me, you don't know me yet well enough.

Since you asked for "real" knowledge... here's is one:

If your tenants don't care to vacate the premises on your wishful terms, it can historically well take 1, 2 or even 3 years to eventually have them evicted the legal way... years during which, their attorney (if they have one) or their street wisdom (they generally believe to have) will suggest them NOT to pay ANY rent to you anymore... ever.
Some local landlords may resort to non-legal help to "politely" suggest to stubborn tenants it is indeed time to move on, in well, no uncertain terms, shall we say... but you, the gringo, would be utterly ill advised to try to resort to similar methods. Hence, your lawyer may suggest to try to give them a "little incentive", so they'd happily leave without taking the windows, doors and bathroom fixtures (no joke) along with them. Obviously, a lawyer would still like to see his negotiation skills being paid too, at the end of the day... something somebody else you seem to suggest to be a baffoon [sic... it's buffoon, it's a common mistake, but for further reference... if you like to insult people at least have the courtesy to do it in style] implied in maybe a joking manner.

I understand you got a lot of answers or suggestions and maybe even comments you did not really seem to look forward to. But believe me, not only is it a nature of the "beast" (Internet forums), but some really contain advice you ought to heed.
Good luck... J-D.

Thanks for the advice. Really it is appreciated. You seem to have gotten offended when I referred to you as dude but you also seem to think it is O.K. for you to give advice in what seemed to me to be in a somewhat condesending manner in your previous post saying I need to hone certain skills etc.. Please remember it cuts both ways because you do not know me either and don't know if maybe i might be working with a Dominican partner so all that type of unsolicited advice might be totally unwarranted not to mention you never did not respond at all to my original question if the price of an evivction I was quoted was the norm.

Just to clarify..... tenants paying 400 pesos a month.

Don't you mean 4000 pesos a month? I can't think of even the lowest of the low living accommodations that go for 400 pesos a month.

No its 400 pesos thats why I see alot of potential and decided to investigate a little further.

I never mentioned Guzmans name once.
Keep attacking everyone,.....You obviously have a lot to learn...hmmm..go figure.
You must be a barrel of laughs at a party.... NOT

I mentioned Guzmans firm and a price i was quoted and you responded with a breakdown of that amount so if you were not elaborating on that ............ then what the hell were you elaborating on ????????? Were you just ranting ???? ... Oh well maybe there was some humor that i did not get ... i think we probably just run in different circles and I probably would not be a barrel of laughs at parties in the circles you run in and I don't think you would be any fun where i party either. :glasses:

_______________________________________________

I started with what I thought was a really simple question. I also think I put it politley saying that the I enjoyed the many knowledeable responses to questions posted on here by Sr. Guzman and heard many of people express their satisfaction with his services.

I continued by saying that i had talked to his son and I took the time to state that his son's english was much better than my spanish. Sometimes when I begin speaking spanish it takes me a little time to get back into the rythym and get my ear in tone and maybe this was the case on the day i called. We communicated well but i did not feel 100% maybe 90 or 95% and just wanted to get some others opinions that had some expierience with the eviction process and the costs to see if we really understood eachother as i was amazed at the price.


For the record. Sr. Guzman I have had little interaction with your firm but would not hesitate to use your services as I have never heard anything but good things.



To those on this board : I have read on other boards where people express their expierences of coming on this board with a simple question and being attacked. Since begining this thread i have even recieved PM's from other members telling me that they are also fed up with some peoples synicism , rudeness, and condescending, replies. Theses people seem like a very unhappy lot and need to get off the computer and abouts a little more.
This of course does no include everyone, most seem to be good natured and helpful.


To the more recent replies thanks again for your much appreciated responses and for so generously sharing your expieiences.

Chao

 

[bienamor]

rover

Your best bet is to buy the building empty, then

Do what is called short term rentals as some of the pensions are doing. They will rent daily, weekly, monthly, NO contracts, NO deposits. In most cases everything included, furniture, water, electric. and cable. charge what ever the market will bear.

there are some pensions here in the capital, that have had the same people renting for years that way, the advantage is it gets you the owner around all the rent control, and eviction carp. for the renter they can pickup and leave whenever they desire, no hassle

 

[rover]

Your best bet is to buy the building empty, then

Do what is called short term rentals as some of the pensions are doing. They will rent daily, weekly, monthly, NO contracts, NO deposits. In most cases everything included, furniture, water, electric. and cable. charge what ever the market will bear.

there are some pensions here in the capital, that have had the same people renting for years that way, the advantage is it gets you the owner around all the rent control, and eviction carp. for the renter they can pickup and leave whenever they desire, no hassle

Very interesting. O.K. right now there are 3 empty apartments. If i rented them as you have suggested and got stuck with a person who just did not want to leave, would it be a faster eviction then ??

The tenants in there now do not have any leases and are paying month to month.

 

[Adrian Bye]

rover: as the non spanish speaking foreigner you feel you've figured out something the locals all missed?

i have a feeling something isn't as it seems with these people who are supposedly paying 400 pesos per month.

this has the feeling of becoming very complicated situation, dominican style. personally i'd stay far away, but i wish you well with it.

given the resources people are supplying you with here, i hope you will return the favor by updating us as it evolves.

 

[Lambada]

i have a feeling something isn't as it seems with these people who are supposedly paying 400 pesos per month.

I found that figure difficult to believe, I must say. Up here in Puerto Plata I've paid for short term accommodation for guys begging on the streets to see if we can get them employment to help turn their lives around. A very basic room in a rooming house in a medium barrio (meaning not the pits but not the best barrio around) is RD$1200 to RD$1300 a month. I never felt overcharged when I paid rent of this amount for these guys because that figure was pretty representative of the cheapest one could get. So people paying $400 must have some sort of rent control agreement, I would guess. Or.........is the current owner selling the property because that's the only way he can get shot of the problem?

 

[Adrian Bye]

market gaps can spring up all over the place, so you never know, this could be a big opportunity.

the bigger question is whether the guy from the US who doesn't speak spanish or understand dominican culture has found a market gap, or whether he's about to be taken for a ride.

knowing this country, i'm 95% sure which one it is. this thread may be helpful as things move forward: http://www.dr1.com/forums/living/97806-its-not-my-fault-im-real-victim-here.html#post807692

 

[mountainannie]

this is the key

So people paying $400 must have some sort of rent control agreement, I would guess. Or.........is the current owner selling the property because that's the only way he can get shot of the problem?

For the OP.. I think that we are all coming to the same conclusion here... that perhaps you are being offerred this deal which seems so tempting because the owner of the building cannot himself get rid of the 7 tenants who are their under the protection of rent control.

So in answer to you very first question,,.. is $5000 a reasonable lawyer's fee...the answer I would give is that NO it is WAY TOO CHEAP since you will probably be in litigation for years.

We have actually saved you a lot of that with our free and expert advice... even though you chose to call us mean and

tell us that all the other kids on the playground are talking about us behind our backs.

 

[bienamor]

Very interesting. O.K. right now there are 3 empty apartments. If i rented them as you have suggested and got stuck with a person who just did not want to leave, would it be a faster eviction then ??

The tenants in there now do not have any leases and are paying month to month.

Again my understanding is if there is NO contract and NO deposit. then you can evict them NO problems. But always works better to do this with non dominicans. I know a few people here in the capital that will not rent to domincans due to the eviction problems. and they are dominican! On the other side I have know people that fought for years to evict a renter, and renters that drug it out for years in order to stay.

Best bet check with you lawyers. and 400pesos per month? for rent? the cockroaches, rats, both 2 and 4 legged included in that price? I could not get that in the barrios in Pedro Brand!

 

[rover]

market gaps can spring up all over the place, so you never know, this could be a big opportunity.

the bigger question is whether the guy from the US who doesn't speak spanish or understand dominican culture has found a market gap, or whether he's about to be taken for a ride.

knowing this country, i'm 95% sure which one it is. this thread may be helpful as things move forward: http://www.dr1.com/forums/living/97806-its-not-my-fault-im-real-victim-here.html#post807692

Oh man this is so typical of the negativity I'm talking about here.


I must admit in your first paragraph you did fool me and i thought you were an enlightened individual to understand that yes .. sometimes in life one does come across opportunites.

But then you quickly degraded into, baseless, groundless, out from left field conclusions that have that distinct aroma of negativity.

You say and I quote "

the bigger question is whether the guy from the US who doesn't speak spanish "

Lets stop right there.

I stated in my first post that I speak pretty good spanish. So where ... please tell me where you come to the conclusion that i do not speak any spanish ????????????

Take some time and think about that one. Really inquiring minds would like to know.

Now to continue with your post and I quote

"or understand dominican culture "

O.K. stop again. How do you know what I do or do not understand about Dominican culture??? Someone could live 20 years in the D.R and if they never rented apartments on the market they may know nothing about that. hmmmmm.

I have not lived in the D.R. but I've been there many times in the last 12 years and have friends running successful businesses that the nay sayers said that they would fail within one month. None of this makes me an expert so I do not claim to be I come with hat in hand asking questions.

to continue with your post I again quote

"has found a market gap, or whether he's about to be taken for a ride."


O.K. I find reason with that except the way you phrase it would not be my style. I am doing my research to see if it is an opportunity or not so that I do not get taken for a ride. That's how smart businessmen operate. Investigate and do your research and recon and come to decision to either go ahead or walk away.


I have a background in real estate rentals here in the states. Some of the best opportunities were and still are in the most depressed, gang ridden and dangerous areas. You can manage a property from a distance and nobody living there even needs to know you are the owner. I made a good buck doing just that and I never got shot and I did not waste my time trying to understand their culture. It was simple if they didn't pay evictions began. This is my reference point and am looking into if this can be done at a profit on this property.
I would have a local dominican if i did go ahead with this that i know for 12 years and totally trust managing this for me but she has no business smarts so she would be operating solely by whatever instructions I would give her.


People if your objective is to make money then research money in vs. expenses out and don't spend all your energy trying to "understand" the culture. Sure a certain amount of knowledge is not only helpful but necessary but remember allot of the culture was born out of poverty, misery, and lack of education so there really is no rhyme or reason to it all.


My 2cents is focus more on the math of the investment/property and its future potential and keep an open mind to any opportunity that may come your way. :squareeye

 

[rover]

Again my understanding is if there is NO contract and NO deposit. then you can evict them NO problems. But always works better to do this with non dominicans. I know a few people here in the capital that will not rent to domincans due to the eviction problems. and they are dominican! On the other side I have know people that fought for years to evict a renter, and renters that drug it out for years in order to stay.

Best bet check with you lawyers. and 400pesos per month? for rent? the cockroaches, rats, both 2 and 4 legged included in that price? I could not get that in the barrios in Pedro Brand!

Thanks again bienamore for the feedback. This place just happened to fall into my lap when I went to visit a very good amiga of mine. She is living there. You would be amazed as there are no roaches or rats. Owner died and the kids state side inherited it and they just want to sell and have had it on the market for years. My friend told me the rents were well well below market and the one thing I have learned here so far is she was right.

Place is totally solid structure wise but needs many superficial repairs that i could do myself.

It has allot of potential but the big drawback seems to be the evictions if it comes to that. I'm going to keep researching my options and I welcome any informative insights or suggestions and I will surely keep the thread informed on the goings on if I proceed.

 

[waytogo]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian Bye
market gaps can spring up all over the place, so you never know, this could be a big opportunity.

the bigger question is whether the guy from the US who doesn't speak spanish or understand dominican culture has found a market gap, or whether he's about to be taken for a ride.

knowing this country, i'm 95% sure which one it is. this thread may be helpful as things move forward: Its not my fault; I'm the real victim here

rover: Oh man this is so typical of the negativity I'm talking about here.


Hey everyone, tell this nice man what HE wants to hear PLEASE.....
Owning property here is a piece of cake, try it you'll like it
Eviction...nothing to it
co-operation from tenant being evicted....priceless
Legal fees "from any attorney here"......minimal
Why post if you don't want to listen?....Hmmmmmmm who knows

After insulting so many people here, why continue when you have made up your mind that we are all a bunch of sadistic stupid jerks.

And,...if you think having a background in real estate in the states will help you here...try it out here, no one is telling you how to spend your money. If you invest here in real estate rental property, I sincerely wish you the best of luck. I don't like to see anyone taken for a ride.

Now, back to you for further insults......

 

[rover]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian Bye
market gaps can spring up all over the place, so you never know, this could be a big opportunity.

the bigger question is whether the guy from the US who doesn't speak spanish or understand dominican culture has found a market gap, or whether he's about to be taken for a ride.

knowing this country, i'm 95% sure which one it is. this thread may be helpful as things move forward: Its not my fault; I'm the real victim here

rover: Oh man this is so typical of the negativity I'm talking about here.


Hey everyone, tell this nice man what HE wants to hear PLEASE.....
Owning property here is a piece of cake, try it you'll like it
Eviction...nothing to it
co-operation from tenant being evicted....priceless
Legal fees "from any attorney here"......minimal
Why post if you don't want to listen?....Hmmmmmmm who knows

After insulting so many people here, why continue when you have made up your mind that we are all a bunch of sadistic stupid jerks.

And,...if you think having a background in real estate in the states will help you here...try it out here, no one is telling you how to spend your money. If you invest here in real estate rental property, I sincerely wish you the best of luck. I don't like to see anyone taken for a ride.

Now, back to you for further insults......

Sorry guy if responding to someones post who says

" the guy from the US who doesn't speak spanish "

and telling him that I had stated previously that i do speak pretty good spanish is an insult in your book ... then yeah i will continue to challenge any mistatements.

Like i said before this board has the unfortunate reputation due to a handful of big number posters of being rude and bullying to people who are not everyday regulars so I think the real issue is that some people do not like it when someone does not go along with the status quo and points out their ...shall we say ... sarcastic misrepresentations.

 

[rover]

I found that figure difficult to believe, I must say. Up here in Puerto Plata I've paid for short term accommodation for guys begging on the streets to see if we can get them employment to help turn their lives around. A very basic room in a rooming house in a medium barrio (meaning not the pits but not the best barrio around) is RD$1200 to RD$1300 a month. I never felt overcharged when I paid rent of this amount for these guys because that figure was pretty representative of the cheapest one could get. So people paying $400 must have some sort of rent control agreement, I would guess. Or.........is the current owner selling the property because that's the only way he can get shot of the problem?

Everything you say can be true so it could be a good deal or a dead end. The place had a certain charm and the people living there seemed nice but in the end that has nothing to do with business.

I'll see what i find as i dig deeper.

 

[bob saunders]

I am interested in buying a 10 unit house in the D.R.. Starting to get serious I called Fabio Guzman since he has posted allot of helpful replies and has the confidence of many here as well.


I asked to speak to Fabio since everyone else I spoke to did not have a command of the english language that made me comfortable. I was more or less told that was impossible because Fabio is in Santiago living and that the best i could do is talk to his son.

Though his son's english was better than my spanish I still was not completely comfortable that we fully understood each other.

My first question was : How much would it cost if I needed to evict a tenant if the tenant was not paying rent. He said every case was different and that he could not quote me until he knew all the facts of the particular case.

I explained that I needed to have some reference because if I bought this house it was very plausible that one day i may need his services for this so before I jumped into this could he give me a rough estimate since how much could the circumstances for an eviction of non-payment really vary.


I was totally floored when he told me $5,000.00 U.S..

I responded that some of the tenants were paying 400 pesos a month so how could anyone ever consider buying anything in the D.R. if this is the case.

Does $5,000.00 U.S. for an eviction sound right to other people on this board ??

I mean an attorney in New York City charges about $900 with all court fees included.

It is often very hard to get accurate answers over the phone, especially when talking to someone in their second language. Myself I would want to speak to a lawyer in person. Perhaps someone in this firm can meet your standards, if not, perhaps you need to lower your standards. RUSSIN, VECCHI & HEREDIA BONETTI (RV&HB)

 

[rover]

It is often very hard to get accurate answers over the phone, especially when talking to someone in their second language. Myself I would want to speak to a lawyer in person. Perhaps someone in this firm can meet your standards, if not, perhaps you need to lower your standards. RUSSIN, VECCHI & HEREDIA BONETTI (RV&HB)

Thanks Bob I'll definitely give the a call and you are right in person usually makes things go easier.

 

[Lambada]

Everything is coloured by the lens of perception. You, rover, clearly feel people are being negative here, whereas someone else would say they are being realistic.

O.K. stop again. How do you know what I do or do not understand about Dominican culture???

We don't know what you do or don't understand about Dominican culture but we have gleaned something about your attitude to such an understanding

I made a good buck doing just that and I never got shot and I did not waste my time trying to understand their culture.

(emboldening mine)

Likewise, from posts, it is possible to glean something about posters' attitudes when feeling unfairly criticised. Some people just let it go, others come out firing from the hip. The process of evicting tenants could well evoke comment (and action!) which could make the landlord feel unfairly criticised. You would know from your understanding of the Dominican culture whether letting it go or firing from the hip would be a productive response here.

OK let's try this another way, if you do not wish to listen to advice from here, then listen to yourself

You can manage a property from a distance and nobody living there even needs to know you are the owner.

Place is totally solid structure wise but needs many superficial repairs that i could do myself.

OK but it needs to be one or the other

This place just happened to fall into my lap when I went to visit a very good amiga of mine. She is living there.

I would have a local dominican if i did go ahead with this that i know for 12 years and totally trust managing this for me but she has no business smarts so she would be operating solely by whatever instructions I would give her.

You could be pleasantly surprised at her business smarts....people can develop these.

Owner died and the kids state side inherited it and they just want to sell and have had it on the market for years.

Do you have any idea why no-one has bought it?

 

[Fabio J. Guzman]

I have read the posts above and talked to my son Alfredo. This is what seems to have happened.

Rove, you tried to get an answer to a question that Alfredo did not want to give an answer to. Why? Because since Guzm?n Ariza discarded hourly fees some years ago and went into a fixed and/or incentive fee practice, lawyers have been trained to always say in all lititgation cases: we need to study the case first --usually for free-- in order to quote you a fee.

When he told you he needed to see the documentation first, and you pressured him on the quote, he caved in and quoted you a standard litigation fee out of the hat. He should have stood his ground and not quoted you a fee until he studied the case.

As for Alfredo's language abilities, he speaks English since he was a child and has two degrees from colleges in the US. I don't believe, therefore, that the problem communicating with him was due to a language deficiency on his part. However, he mumbles in the four languages that he speaks, just as I mumble when I speak Spanish or English, and this may have caused you to think that he didn't know the language well.

In any case, I apologize for the misunderstanding and wish you the best in your endeavors in the Dominican Republic.

A final word of advice: don't buy the property with the tenants inside unless you hold back a substantial amount of the purchase price until the tenants are evicted.

 

[waytogo]

A final word of advice: don't buy the property with the tenants inside unless you hold back a substantial amount of the purchase price until the tenants are evicted.

By far the best words spoken here on this topic.

 

[teresia]

This is not simple here so avoid it like others said before.
First: NEVER buy with tenants in the building, if the seller wants to sell like that it?s because it?s trouble with them. That should be stated in the contract as a must.
Second: Choose tenants with care, and have them pay rent in advance(so they don?t leave in the night and take everything!)
You can take deposit and if they don?t pay rent, that they loose the deposit or something else, that makes them pay.
But you can never be sure, and evicition the legal way is not an option for making money.
Third: You need some local guy to collect rent if it?s in a barrio.

Good Luck!