- Thread starter windeguy
- Start date
Haitians Born in the DR of illegal parents stripped of DR Citizenship
I copied this from another thread and it clearly states that Haitians born by Haitien parents anywhere in the world are Haitian citizens.
Please read:
Haiti Amends Constitution
Please read:
Haiti Amends Constitution
The law before the Supreme Court of Justice's addendum in 2007 and the reform of 2010 used to uphold unlimited Jus Solis like the US, what wasn't clear was the status of the parents. The retroactive application of the current law will come back and bite us in the ass, perhaps sooner than you think.
basically the same thing for dominicans, the parents can claim dominican citizenship for their childs, or the child can do it later as an adult, no matter where they were born, so the child will have dual citizenship, unless resigning to the former
This ruling is a disgrace to the human race! This is similar to Hitler declaring that Jews, and Gypsies, born in Germany 100 years prior to Hitler coming to power, were no longer German citizens!!! He then accused them of being resposible for all the problems Germany faced. Everyone knows what followed. Six million Jewish men, women, children, and babies were brutally murdered!!
The world must rally together now before it is too late, to address this stripping of citizenship from Dominicans who have been citizens for almost a hundred years by "Judges" who can be best described as neo-nazis and neo-facists. Their decision is purely based on prejudice, racism, xenophobia, cruelty, total inhumanity, and an absolute lack of reason.
This is disgraceful, embarassing, inhuman, primitive and has no place in the 21st century!!
Ktn.............
The world must rally together now before it is too late, to address this stripping of citizenship from Dominicans who have been citizens for almost a hundred years by "Judges" who can be best described as neo-nazis and neo-facists. Their decision is purely based on prejudice, racism, xenophobia, cruelty, total inhumanity, and an absolute lack of reason.
This is disgraceful, embarassing, inhuman, primitive and has no place in the 21st century!!
Ktn.............
This ruling is a disgrace to the human race! This is similar to Hitler declaring that Jews, and Gypsies, born in Germany 100 years prior to Hitler coming to power, were no longer German citizens!!! He then accused them of being resposible for all the problems Germany faced. Everyone knows what followed. Six million Jewish men, women, children, and babies were brutally murdered!!
The world must rally together now before it is too late, to address this stripping of citizenship from Dominicans who have been citizens for almost a hundred years by "Judges" who can be best described as neo-nazis and neo-facists. Their decision is purely based on prejudice, racism, xenophobia, cruelty, total inhumanity, and an absolute lack of reason.
This is disgraceful, embarassing, inhuman, primitive and has no place in the 21st century!!
Ktn.............
More than genocide, I think the aim of this measure is to legalize slavery, cuz' the population in question wouldn't have the chance of claiming labor benefits from the employers here. And it's also an easy (and very stupid) way of dealing with the inmigration problem from the western part of the island instead of having the balls to do what needs to be done to curb the problem: take control of the border away from the alphabet soup of military departments (J-2, CESFRONT, etc., all complicit with the contraband), and make an overhaul of the foreign service corps based on the embassies of the DR in Haiti, namely, to dismiss the consuls there, which have had a very lucrative business issuing visas to the peasants there, without the Dominican state ever seeing a dime.
that may be a partial true to be confirmed, analized within the context
the key here is "extranjeros en tr?nsito" as designated in the 1929 CONSTITUCION, long before the INMIGRATION LAW of 1939, and defined in later jurisprudence.
That is not even the same as someone in transit, transeunte, to another destination
The 1966 CONSTITUTION, valid by the time the girl was born, article 11.1 considered her fathers extranjeros no inmigrantes or en transito, also considered in article 3 of the law number 95, 1939, they were Jornaleros temporeros, temporary workers
Look Mr. Trujillo, "the chief", expelled and killed thousand of haitians during 1937, do you think he later would leave a loophole for haitians with a new law during 1939, just 2 years later?
The 1966 constitution was implemented while Balaguer was in power, he neither had any good inclination toward haitians.
Ok, back to legalism, "an extranjero en transito" could become a legal resident, become legal inmigrants, and their children would be dominicans, but in this particular case they never did
another case in point is the children of diplomatic personnel born in DR are not dominicans, just because of the so called 'jus solis', it is in black and white
it is a long historical legal case... most of us will not be objective
If you came to this country illegally and you KNOW this, what do THINK is going to happen eventually. It's like an individual who violates the law of any country, eventually it catches up to you. There are many foreigners in this country of mine right now who should be deported right away for conspiring and smearing the DR when it attempts to uphold its sovereignty.
You note something truly sad. However, those parents are always able to take their child with them. the child can always come back at age 18. Parents raise a child, not a country.
HUH? Wha? So let me ask you this, all the children born of Domincan parents in the US without proper authorization...Well then you would have no problem with a new law that strips them of citizenship? You have no problem with US immigration breaking up families? Conspiring and smearing the DR is pretty strong language. Calling someone a collaborator of an enemy is serious business. so you think anyone who fights for the rights of immigrants who find themselves without proper documents a conspirator and worthy of deportation? So anyone in the US, including legal Dominican residents should be deported if they advocate for the Human Rights of Illegal immigrants or speak negatively about US laws? I just hope you are consistent in your rather harsh assessment.
Let's not bring the USA or any other country into this discussion. Laws of another nation are immaterial.
Please keep the posts DR & Haiti related only.
This issue will have a long life, IMO, and I'd like to keep the thread open for discussion.
Please keep the posts DR & Haiti related only.
This issue will have a long life, IMO, and I'd like to keep the thread open for discussion.
Good Morning, When the "parents" are discussed does that mean one parent or both? For instance if a child is born in the DR to a Dominican father & a illegal/in transit Haitian or any other nation mother or vice versa what are the rights of that child? To me the people of the Dominican Republic have the right and a duty to decide how citizenship is granted. I believe that the majority of countries do NOT grant automatic citizenship to those born in the country. The automatic right of the US was intended to ensure that former slaves after the Civil War where not disenfranchised.
Juan Bosch:
Carta de Juan Bosch sobre el tema haitiano a tres grandes intelectuales de la ?poca, en 1943.
La Habana,14 de junio de 1943.
Mis queridos Emilio Rodr?guez Demorizi, H?ctor Inch?ustegui y Ram?n Marrero Aristy:
USTEDES SE VAN MA?ANA, creo, y antes de que vuelvan al pa?s quiero escribirles unas l?neas que acaso sean las ?ltimas que produzca sobre el caso dominicano como dominicano. No digo que alg?n d?a no vuelva al tema, pero lo har? ya a tanta distancia mental y psicol?gica de mi patria nativa como pudiera hacerlo un se?or de Alaska.
En primer lugar, gracias por la leve compa??a con que me han regalado hoy; la agradezco como hombre preocupado por el comercio de las ideas, jam?s porque ella me haya producido esa indescriptible emoci?n que se siente cuando en voz, en el tono, en las palabras de un amigo que ha dejado de verse por mucho tiempo se advierten los recuerdos de un sitio en que uno fue feliz. Acaso para mi dicha, nunca fui feliz en la Rep?blica Dominicana, ni como ser humano ni como escritor ni como ciudadano; en cambio sufr? enormemente en todas esas condiciones.
Hoy tambi?n he sufrido…Pues de mi reuni?n con Uds. he sacado una conclusi?n dolorosa, y es ?sta: la tragedia de mi pa?s ha calado mucho m?s all? de donde era posible concebir: La dictadura ha llegado a conformar una base ideol?gica que ya parece natural en el aire dominicano y que costar? enormemente vencer; si es que puede vencerse alguna vez. No me refiero a hechos concretos relacionados con determinada persona; no hablo de que los dominicanos se sientan m?s o menos identificados con Trujillo, que defiendan o ataquen su r?gimen, que mantengan tal o cual idea sobre el suceso limitado de la situaci?n pol?tica actual en Santo Domingo; no, mis amigos queridos: hablo de una transformaci?n de la mentalidad nacional que es en realidad incompatible con aquellos principios de convivencia humana en los cuales los hombres y los pueblos han cre?do con firme fe durante las ?pocas mejores del mundo, por los que los gu?as del g?nero humano han padecido y muerto, han sufrido y se han sacrificado. Me refiero a la actitud mental y moral de Uds. – y por tanto de la mejor parte de mi pueblo – frente a un caso que a todos nos toca: el haitiano.
Antes de seguir desear?a recordar a Uds. que hay una obra m?a, diseminada por todo nuestro ?mbito, que ha sido escrita, forjada al solo estimulo de mi amor por el pueblo dominicano. Me refiero a mis cuentos. Ni el deseo de ganar dinero ni el de obtener con ellos un renombre que me permitiera ganar alg?n d?a una posici?n pol?tica o econ?mica ni prop?sito bastardo alguno dio origen a esos cuentos. Uds. son escritores y saben que cuando uno empieza a escribir, cuando lo hace como nosotros, sincera, lealmente, no lleva otro fin que el de expresar una inquietud interior angustiosa y agobiadora. As?, ah? est? mi obra para defenderme si alguien dice actualmente o en el porvenir que soy un mal dominicano. Hablo, pues, con derecho a reclamar que se me oiga como al menos malo de los hijos de mi tierra.
Los he o?do a Uds. expresarse, especialmente a Emilio y Marrero, casi con odio hacia los haitianos, y me he preguntado c?mo es posible amar al propio pueblo y despreciar al ajeno; c?mo es posible querer a los hijos de uno al tiempo que se odia a los hijos del vecino, as?, s?lo porque son hijos de otros. Creo que Uds. no han meditado sobre el derecho de un ser humano, sea haitiano o chino, a vivir con aquel m?nimo de bienestar indispensable para que la vida no sea una carga insoportable; que Uds. consideran a los haitianos punto menos que animales, porque a los cerdos, a las vacas, a los perros no les negar?an Uds. el derecho de vivir…
Pero creo tambi?n – y espero no equivocarme – que Uds. sufren una confusi?n; que Uds. han dejado que el juicio les haya sido desviado por aqu?llos que en Hait? y en la Rep?blica Dominicana utilizan a ambos pueblos para sus ventajas personales. Porque eso es lo que ocurre, amigos m?os. Si me permiten he de explic?rselo: El pueblo dominicano y el pueblo haitiano han vivido desde el Descubrimiento hasta hoy – o desde que se formaron hasta la fecha – igualmente sometidos en t?rminos generales. Para el caso no importa que Santo Domingo tenga una masa menos pobre y menos ignorante. No hay diferencia fundamental entre el estado de miseria e ignorancia de un haitiano y el de un dominicano, si ambos se miden, no por lo que han adquirido en bienes y conocimientos, sino por lo que les falta adquirir todav?a para llamarse con justo t?tulo, seres humanos satisfechos y orgullosos de serlo. El pueblo haitiano es un poco m?s pobre, y debido a esa circunstancia, luchando con el hambre, que es algo m?s serio de lo que puede imaginarse quien no la haya padecido en s?, en sus hijos y en sus antepasados, procura burlar la vigilancia dominicana y cruza la frontera; si el caso fuera al rev?s, ser?a el dominicano el que emigrar?a ilegalmente a Hait?. El haitiano es, pues, m?s digno de compasi?n que el dominicano; en orden de su miseria merece m?s que luchemos por ?l, que tratemos de sacarlo de su condici?n de bestia. Ninguno de Uds. ser?a capaz de pegar con el pie a quien llegara a sus puertas en busca de abrigo o de pan: y si no lo hacen como hombres, no pueden hacerlo como ciudadanos.
Ahora bien, as? como el estado de ambos pueblos se relaciona, porque los dos padecen, as? tambi?n se relacionan aqu?llos que en Santo Domingo igual que en Hait? explotan al pueblo, acumulan millones, privan a los dem?s del derecho de hablar para que no denuncien sus tropel?as, del derecho de asociarse pol?ticamente, para que no combatan sus privilegios, del derecho de ser dignos para que no echen por el suelo sus monumentos de indignidad. No hay diferencia fundamental entre los dominicanos y los haitianos de la masa; No hay diferencia fundamental entre los dominicanos y los haitianos de la clase dominante.
Pero as? como en los hombres del pueblo en ambos pa?ses hay un inter?s com?n – el de lograr sus libertades para tener acceso al bienestar que todo hijo de mujer merece y necesita -, en las clases dominantes de Hait? y Santo Domingo hay choques de intereses, porque ambas quieren para s? la mayor riqueza. Los pueblos est?n igualmente sometidos; las clases dominantes son competidoras. Trujillo y todo lo que ?l representa como minor?a explotadora desean la riqueza de la isla para s?; Lescot y todo lo que ?l representa como minor?a explotadora, tambi?n. Entonces, uno y otro – unos y otros, mejor dicho – utilizan a sus pueblos respectivos para que les sirvan de tropa de choque: esta tropa que batalle para que el vencedor acreciente su poder. Enga?an ambos a los pueblos con el espejismo de un nacionalismo intransigente que no es amor a la propia tierra sino odio a la extra?a, y sobre todo, apetencia del poder total. Y si los m?s puros y los mejores entre aqu?llos que por ser intelectuales, personas que han aprendido a distinguir la verdad en el fango de la mentira se dejan embaucar y acaban enamor?ndose de esa mentira, acabaremos olvidando que el deber de los m?s altos por m?s cultos no es ponerse al servicio consciente o inconsciente de una minor?a explotadora, rapaz y sin escr?pulos, sino al servicio del hombre del pueblo, sea haitiano, boliviano o dominicano.
Cuando los diplom?ticos haitianos hacen aqu? o all? una labor que Uds. estiman perjudicial para la Rep?blica Dominicana, ?saben lo que est?n haciendo ellos, aunque crean de buena fe que est?n procediendo como patriotas? Pues est?n simplemente sirviendo a los intereses de esa minor?a que ahora est? presidida por Lescot como ayer lo estaba por Vincent. Y cuando los intelectuales escriben – como lo ha hecho Marrero, de total motu proprio seg?n ?l dijo olvidando que no hay ya lugar para el libre albedr?o en el mundo – art?culos contrarios a Hait? est?n sirviendo inconscientemente – pero sirviendo – a los que explotan al pueblo dominicano y lo tratan como enemigo militarmente conquistado. No, amigos m?os… Salgan de su ofuscaci?n. Nuestro deber como dominicanos que formamos parte de la humanidad es defender al pueblo haitiano de sus explotadores, con igual ardor que al pueblo dominicano de los suyos. No hay que confundir a Trujillo con la Rep?blica Dominicana ni a Lescot con Hait?. Uds. mismos lo afirman, cuando dicen que Lescot subi? al poder ayudado por Trujillo y ahora lo combate. Tambi?n Trujillo llev? al poder a Lescot y ahora lo ataca. Es que ambos tienen intereses opuestos, como opuestos son los de cada uno de los de sus pueblos respectivos y los del g?nero humano.
Nuestro deber es, ahora, luchar por la libertad de nuestro pueblo y luchar por la libertad del pueblo haitiano. Cuando de aqu?l y de este lado de la frontera, los hombres tengan casa, libros, medicinas, ropa, alimentos en abundancia; cuando seamos todos, haitianos y dominicanos, ricos y cultos y sanos, no habr? pugnas entre los hijos de Duarte y de Toussaint, porque ni estos ir?n a buscar, acosados por el hambre, tierras dominicanas en qu? cosechar un m?sero pl?tano necesario a su sustento, ni aqu?llos tendr?n que volver los ojos a un pa?s de origen, idioma y cultura diferentes, a menos que lo hagan con ?nimo de aumentar sus conocimientos de la tierra y los hombres que la viven.
Ese sentimiento de indignaci?n viril que los anima ahora con respeto a Hait?, volv?moslo contra el que esclaviza y explota a los dominicanos; contra el que, con la presi?n de su poder casi total, cambia los sentimientos de todos los dominicanos, los mejores sentimientos nuestros, forz?ndonos a abandonar el don de la amistad, el de la discreci?n, el de la correcta valoraci?n de todo lo que alienta en el mundo. Y despu?s, convoquemos en son de hermanos a los haitianos y ayud?mosles a ser ellos libres tambi?n de sus explotadores; a que, lo mismo que nosotros, puedan levantar una patria pr?spera, culta, feliz, en la que sus mejores virtudes, sus mejores tradiciones florezcan con la misma espontaneidad que todos deseamos para las nuestras.Hay que saber distinguir qui?n es el verdadero enemigo y no olvidar que el derecho a vivir es universal para individuos y pueblos. Yo s? que Uds. saben esto, que Uds., como yo, aspiran a una patria mejor, a una patria que pueda codearse con las m?s avanzadas del globo. Y no la lograremos por otro camino que por el del respeto a todos los derechos, que si est?n hoy violados en Santo Domingo no deben ofuscarnos hasta llevarnos a desear que sean violados por nosotros en lugares distintos.
Yo creo en Uds. Por eso he sufrido. Creo en Uds. hasta el hecho de no dolerme que Marrero mostrara a Emilio el papelito que le escrib? con ?nimo de beneficiarlo y sin ?nimo de molestar ni por acci?n ni por omisi?n a Emilio. En todos creo, a todos los quiero y en su claro juicio tengo fe. Por eso me han hecho sufrir esta tarde.
Pero el porvenir ha de vernos un d?a abrazados, en medio de un mundo libre de opresores y de prejuicios, un mundo en que quepan los haitianos y los dominicanos, y en el que todos los que tenemos el deber de ser mejores estaremos luchando juntos contra la miseria y la ignorancia de todos los hombres de la tierra.
M?ndenme como hermano y t?nganme por tal.
Juan Bosch
[google translation follows in next post]
Carta de Juan Bosch sobre el tema haitiano a tres grandes intelectuales de la ?poca, en 1943.
La Habana,14 de junio de 1943.
Mis queridos Emilio Rodr?guez Demorizi, H?ctor Inch?ustegui y Ram?n Marrero Aristy:
USTEDES SE VAN MA?ANA, creo, y antes de que vuelvan al pa?s quiero escribirles unas l?neas que acaso sean las ?ltimas que produzca sobre el caso dominicano como dominicano. No digo que alg?n d?a no vuelva al tema, pero lo har? ya a tanta distancia mental y psicol?gica de mi patria nativa como pudiera hacerlo un se?or de Alaska.
En primer lugar, gracias por la leve compa??a con que me han regalado hoy; la agradezco como hombre preocupado por el comercio de las ideas, jam?s porque ella me haya producido esa indescriptible emoci?n que se siente cuando en voz, en el tono, en las palabras de un amigo que ha dejado de verse por mucho tiempo se advierten los recuerdos de un sitio en que uno fue feliz. Acaso para mi dicha, nunca fui feliz en la Rep?blica Dominicana, ni como ser humano ni como escritor ni como ciudadano; en cambio sufr? enormemente en todas esas condiciones.
Hoy tambi?n he sufrido…Pues de mi reuni?n con Uds. he sacado una conclusi?n dolorosa, y es ?sta: la tragedia de mi pa?s ha calado mucho m?s all? de donde era posible concebir: La dictadura ha llegado a conformar una base ideol?gica que ya parece natural en el aire dominicano y que costar? enormemente vencer; si es que puede vencerse alguna vez. No me refiero a hechos concretos relacionados con determinada persona; no hablo de que los dominicanos se sientan m?s o menos identificados con Trujillo, que defiendan o ataquen su r?gimen, que mantengan tal o cual idea sobre el suceso limitado de la situaci?n pol?tica actual en Santo Domingo; no, mis amigos queridos: hablo de una transformaci?n de la mentalidad nacional que es en realidad incompatible con aquellos principios de convivencia humana en los cuales los hombres y los pueblos han cre?do con firme fe durante las ?pocas mejores del mundo, por los que los gu?as del g?nero humano han padecido y muerto, han sufrido y se han sacrificado. Me refiero a la actitud mental y moral de Uds. – y por tanto de la mejor parte de mi pueblo – frente a un caso que a todos nos toca: el haitiano.
Antes de seguir desear?a recordar a Uds. que hay una obra m?a, diseminada por todo nuestro ?mbito, que ha sido escrita, forjada al solo estimulo de mi amor por el pueblo dominicano. Me refiero a mis cuentos. Ni el deseo de ganar dinero ni el de obtener con ellos un renombre que me permitiera ganar alg?n d?a una posici?n pol?tica o econ?mica ni prop?sito bastardo alguno dio origen a esos cuentos. Uds. son escritores y saben que cuando uno empieza a escribir, cuando lo hace como nosotros, sincera, lealmente, no lleva otro fin que el de expresar una inquietud interior angustiosa y agobiadora. As?, ah? est? mi obra para defenderme si alguien dice actualmente o en el porvenir que soy un mal dominicano. Hablo, pues, con derecho a reclamar que se me oiga como al menos malo de los hijos de mi tierra.
Los he o?do a Uds. expresarse, especialmente a Emilio y Marrero, casi con odio hacia los haitianos, y me he preguntado c?mo es posible amar al propio pueblo y despreciar al ajeno; c?mo es posible querer a los hijos de uno al tiempo que se odia a los hijos del vecino, as?, s?lo porque son hijos de otros. Creo que Uds. no han meditado sobre el derecho de un ser humano, sea haitiano o chino, a vivir con aquel m?nimo de bienestar indispensable para que la vida no sea una carga insoportable; que Uds. consideran a los haitianos punto menos que animales, porque a los cerdos, a las vacas, a los perros no les negar?an Uds. el derecho de vivir…
Pero creo tambi?n – y espero no equivocarme – que Uds. sufren una confusi?n; que Uds. han dejado que el juicio les haya sido desviado por aqu?llos que en Hait? y en la Rep?blica Dominicana utilizan a ambos pueblos para sus ventajas personales. Porque eso es lo que ocurre, amigos m?os. Si me permiten he de explic?rselo: El pueblo dominicano y el pueblo haitiano han vivido desde el Descubrimiento hasta hoy – o desde que se formaron hasta la fecha – igualmente sometidos en t?rminos generales. Para el caso no importa que Santo Domingo tenga una masa menos pobre y menos ignorante. No hay diferencia fundamental entre el estado de miseria e ignorancia de un haitiano y el de un dominicano, si ambos se miden, no por lo que han adquirido en bienes y conocimientos, sino por lo que les falta adquirir todav?a para llamarse con justo t?tulo, seres humanos satisfechos y orgullosos de serlo. El pueblo haitiano es un poco m?s pobre, y debido a esa circunstancia, luchando con el hambre, que es algo m?s serio de lo que puede imaginarse quien no la haya padecido en s?, en sus hijos y en sus antepasados, procura burlar la vigilancia dominicana y cruza la frontera; si el caso fuera al rev?s, ser?a el dominicano el que emigrar?a ilegalmente a Hait?. El haitiano es, pues, m?s digno de compasi?n que el dominicano; en orden de su miseria merece m?s que luchemos por ?l, que tratemos de sacarlo de su condici?n de bestia. Ninguno de Uds. ser?a capaz de pegar con el pie a quien llegara a sus puertas en busca de abrigo o de pan: y si no lo hacen como hombres, no pueden hacerlo como ciudadanos.
Ahora bien, as? como el estado de ambos pueblos se relaciona, porque los dos padecen, as? tambi?n se relacionan aqu?llos que en Santo Domingo igual que en Hait? explotan al pueblo, acumulan millones, privan a los dem?s del derecho de hablar para que no denuncien sus tropel?as, del derecho de asociarse pol?ticamente, para que no combatan sus privilegios, del derecho de ser dignos para que no echen por el suelo sus monumentos de indignidad. No hay diferencia fundamental entre los dominicanos y los haitianos de la masa; No hay diferencia fundamental entre los dominicanos y los haitianos de la clase dominante.
Pero as? como en los hombres del pueblo en ambos pa?ses hay un inter?s com?n – el de lograr sus libertades para tener acceso al bienestar que todo hijo de mujer merece y necesita -, en las clases dominantes de Hait? y Santo Domingo hay choques de intereses, porque ambas quieren para s? la mayor riqueza. Los pueblos est?n igualmente sometidos; las clases dominantes son competidoras. Trujillo y todo lo que ?l representa como minor?a explotadora desean la riqueza de la isla para s?; Lescot y todo lo que ?l representa como minor?a explotadora, tambi?n. Entonces, uno y otro – unos y otros, mejor dicho – utilizan a sus pueblos respectivos para que les sirvan de tropa de choque: esta tropa que batalle para que el vencedor acreciente su poder. Enga?an ambos a los pueblos con el espejismo de un nacionalismo intransigente que no es amor a la propia tierra sino odio a la extra?a, y sobre todo, apetencia del poder total. Y si los m?s puros y los mejores entre aqu?llos que por ser intelectuales, personas que han aprendido a distinguir la verdad en el fango de la mentira se dejan embaucar y acaban enamor?ndose de esa mentira, acabaremos olvidando que el deber de los m?s altos por m?s cultos no es ponerse al servicio consciente o inconsciente de una minor?a explotadora, rapaz y sin escr?pulos, sino al servicio del hombre del pueblo, sea haitiano, boliviano o dominicano.
Cuando los diplom?ticos haitianos hacen aqu? o all? una labor que Uds. estiman perjudicial para la Rep?blica Dominicana, ?saben lo que est?n haciendo ellos, aunque crean de buena fe que est?n procediendo como patriotas? Pues est?n simplemente sirviendo a los intereses de esa minor?a que ahora est? presidida por Lescot como ayer lo estaba por Vincent. Y cuando los intelectuales escriben – como lo ha hecho Marrero, de total motu proprio seg?n ?l dijo olvidando que no hay ya lugar para el libre albedr?o en el mundo – art?culos contrarios a Hait? est?n sirviendo inconscientemente – pero sirviendo – a los que explotan al pueblo dominicano y lo tratan como enemigo militarmente conquistado. No, amigos m?os… Salgan de su ofuscaci?n. Nuestro deber como dominicanos que formamos parte de la humanidad es defender al pueblo haitiano de sus explotadores, con igual ardor que al pueblo dominicano de los suyos. No hay que confundir a Trujillo con la Rep?blica Dominicana ni a Lescot con Hait?. Uds. mismos lo afirman, cuando dicen que Lescot subi? al poder ayudado por Trujillo y ahora lo combate. Tambi?n Trujillo llev? al poder a Lescot y ahora lo ataca. Es que ambos tienen intereses opuestos, como opuestos son los de cada uno de los de sus pueblos respectivos y los del g?nero humano.
Nuestro deber es, ahora, luchar por la libertad de nuestro pueblo y luchar por la libertad del pueblo haitiano. Cuando de aqu?l y de este lado de la frontera, los hombres tengan casa, libros, medicinas, ropa, alimentos en abundancia; cuando seamos todos, haitianos y dominicanos, ricos y cultos y sanos, no habr? pugnas entre los hijos de Duarte y de Toussaint, porque ni estos ir?n a buscar, acosados por el hambre, tierras dominicanas en qu? cosechar un m?sero pl?tano necesario a su sustento, ni aqu?llos tendr?n que volver los ojos a un pa?s de origen, idioma y cultura diferentes, a menos que lo hagan con ?nimo de aumentar sus conocimientos de la tierra y los hombres que la viven.
Ese sentimiento de indignaci?n viril que los anima ahora con respeto a Hait?, volv?moslo contra el que esclaviza y explota a los dominicanos; contra el que, con la presi?n de su poder casi total, cambia los sentimientos de todos los dominicanos, los mejores sentimientos nuestros, forz?ndonos a abandonar el don de la amistad, el de la discreci?n, el de la correcta valoraci?n de todo lo que alienta en el mundo. Y despu?s, convoquemos en son de hermanos a los haitianos y ayud?mosles a ser ellos libres tambi?n de sus explotadores; a que, lo mismo que nosotros, puedan levantar una patria pr?spera, culta, feliz, en la que sus mejores virtudes, sus mejores tradiciones florezcan con la misma espontaneidad que todos deseamos para las nuestras.Hay que saber distinguir qui?n es el verdadero enemigo y no olvidar que el derecho a vivir es universal para individuos y pueblos. Yo s? que Uds. saben esto, que Uds., como yo, aspiran a una patria mejor, a una patria que pueda codearse con las m?s avanzadas del globo. Y no la lograremos por otro camino que por el del respeto a todos los derechos, que si est?n hoy violados en Santo Domingo no deben ofuscarnos hasta llevarnos a desear que sean violados por nosotros en lugares distintos.
Yo creo en Uds. Por eso he sufrido. Creo en Uds. hasta el hecho de no dolerme que Marrero mostrara a Emilio el papelito que le escrib? con ?nimo de beneficiarlo y sin ?nimo de molestar ni por acci?n ni por omisi?n a Emilio. En todos creo, a todos los quiero y en su claro juicio tengo fe. Por eso me han hecho sufrir esta tarde.
Pero el porvenir ha de vernos un d?a abrazados, en medio de un mundo libre de opresores y de prejuicios, un mundo en que quepan los haitianos y los dominicanos, y en el que todos los que tenemos el deber de ser mejores estaremos luchando juntos contra la miseria y la ignorancia de todos los hombres de la tierra.
M?ndenme como hermano y t?nganme por tal.
Juan Bosch
[google translation follows in next post]
Google "translation"
Juan Bosch Letter Haitian about three great intellectuals of the time , in 1943.
Havana , June 14, 1943 .
My dear Demorizi Emilio Rodr?guez , H?ctor Ram?n Marrero Inch?ustegui and Aristy :
TOMORROW WILL YOU think, and before they return to the country I want to write a few lines that are perhaps the last to occur of the Dominican case as a Dominican . I'm not saying that one day return to the topic , but I will because so many mental and psychological distance from my native country as a man could do in Alaska.
First, thanks for the light company that have given me today , the man concerned grateful as trade ideas, because she never has occurred that indescribable thrill when voice , in tone, in the words of a friend who has ceased to be long memories will warn of a site where one was happy. Perhaps to my joy , I was never happy in the Dominican Republic , and as a human being and as a writer and as a citizen , but instead suffered greatly in all these conditions .
Today I also suffered ... and from my meeting with you I have taken a painful conclusion , and that is: the tragedy of my country has permeated far beyond where it was possible to conceive : The dictatorship has come to form an ideological basis that it seems Dominican naturally in the air and will cost greatly overcome, if they can ever overcome . I do not mean facts relating to a particular person , do not talk about that Dominicans feel more or less identified with Trujillo , defend or attack his regime, to maintain a particular idea about the limited success of the current political situation in Santo Domingo, no, my dear friends : I talk about a transformation of the national mentality that is actually incompatible with those principles of human society in which men and the people who believe with firm faith during times best in the world , by which the guides of mankind have suffered and died , suffered and sacrificed . I mean the mental and moral attitude of you - and therefore the best part of my people - in a case that touches us all : the Haitian .
Before proceeding I wish to remind you that there is a play of mine , scattered throughout our area , which has been written for the sole stimulus forged my love for the Dominican people . I mean my stories . Neither the desire to make money or to get them a reputation which allowed me one day win political or economic position or any bastard purpose gave rise to these stories . You are writers and they know that when you start typing , when you do like us , sincere, loyally carries no other purpose than to express a distressing and oppressive inner restlessness . So , there's my work to defend myself if someone says now or in the future I'm a bad Dominican . I speak , therefore, entitled to claim that I hear as the lesser evil of the sons of my land .
I have heard you speak , especially Emilio and Marrero , almost hatred towards Haitians , and I have wondered how it is possible to love one and despise the people outside , how is possible to love one's children while hates his neighbor's children as well, just because they are children of others. I think you have not thought about the right of a human being, whether Haitian or Chinese , to live with at least one being essential for life is not an unbearable burden , that you point Haitians considered less than animals , because pigs , cows , dogs do not deny you the right to live ...
But I also - and I am not mistaken - that you suffer a confusion , that you have left the trial they have been deflected by those in Haiti and the Dominican Republic both peoples used for their personal advantage . Because that's what happens , my friends. If I may have to explain : The Dominican people and the Haitian people have lived since the discovery until today - or since they formed to date - equally subject in general terms. In the case no matter Santo Domingo has a mass less poor and less ignorant . There is no fundamental difference between the state of misery and ignorance of a Haitian and a Dominican , if both are measured , not by what they have acquired goods and knowledge , but by what they lack to acquire still justly called , humans satisfied and proud of it . The Haitian people are a little poorer , and because of that circumstance , fighting hunger, which is more serious than you can imagine someone who has not suffered themselves, their children and their ancestors , seeks to circumvent controls Dominican and crosses the border , if the case were reversed, would the Dominican who illegally emigrate to Haiti . The Haitian is thus more to be pitied than the Dominican , in order of their misery deserves more to fight for it, we try to remove it from its status beast. None of you would be able to strike with the foot who came to his doors for shelter or bread : and if they do not like men , they can not do as citizens.
Now, and the status of both peoples is related , because both suffer , and also relate those in Santo Domingo as in Haiti exploit the people , accumulate millions , depriving others of the right to speak not to report their abuse , the right to organize politically , to not fight their privileges , the right to be worthy to throw on the floor no monuments of unworthiness . There is no fundamental difference between Dominicans and Haitians in the mass; There is no fundamental difference between Dominicans and Haitians of the ruling class .
But just as men of the people in both countries have a common interest - that of achieving their freedom to access all child welfare woman deserves and needs - in the ruling classes of Haiti and Santo Domingo there are clashes of interest, because both want for themselves the greatest wealth. The people are equally subject , the ruling classes are competitors . Trujillo and everything he represents as exploiting minority want the wealth of the island to another; Lescot and everything he represents as exploiting minority , too. Then one and another - each other , rather - use their respective peoples that they serve as shock troops : this troop him to struggle for the winner plus their increased power. Deceive both the people with the mirage of intransigent nationalism is not love to own land but the strange hatred , and especially craving the total power. And if the purest and the best among those being intellectuals, people who have learned to distinguish the truth in the mire of lies duped and end up falling for that lie, end up forgetting that the highest duty for more cults is to serve conscious or unconscious of an exploiting minority , predatory and unscrupulous , but in the service of the common man , is Haitian or Dominican Bolivia .
When Haitian diplomats here or there do work that you consider harmful to the Dominican Republic , you know what they are doing , even if they believe in good faith that they are proceeding as patriots ? As they are simply serving the interests of the minority that is now chaired by Lescot like yesterday it was about Vincent . And when intellectuals write - as it has done Marrero of Total motu proprio as he said, forgetting that there is no longer room for free will in the world - Haiti counter items are serving unconsciously - but serving - to those who exploit the people Dominican and treat him as an enemy militarily conquered . No, my friends ... Come out of your obfuscation . Our duty as Dominicans who are part of humanity is to defend the Haitian people from their exploiters , with equal ardor that his own Dominican people . Do not confuse with the Dominican Republic Trujillo or Lescot with Haiti. You yourselves say , when they say Lescot came to power aided by Trujillo and now fights it. Trujillo also brought to power Lescot and now attacks him. Is that both have conflicting interests , as opposed are those of each of their respective peoples and of mankind.
Our duty is now fighting for the freedom of our people and fight for the freedom of the Haitian people . When thereof and on this side of the border , the men have a house , books , medicines , clothes, food in abundance, when we are all Haitians and Dominicans , rich and educated and healthy , there will be conflicts between the children of Duarte and Toussaint , because neither these go looking , plagued by hunger, Dominican lands in what a miserable banana harvest necessary to their livelihood , and those eyes will have to return to a country of origin , language and culture different , unless to do so with the intention of increasing their knowledge of the land and the people who live it.
That feeling of manly indignation that encourages respect for Haiti now , volv?moslo against which enslaves and exploits the Dominicans , against which , with the pressure of his almost total power , change the feelings of all Dominicans , the best feelings our , forcing us to abandon the gift of friendship, the discretion, the proper assessment of everything that breathes in the world . And then summon in are Haitians brothers and let's help them be free also from their exploiters, they , like us, can build a prosperous country , educated , happy, in which his best virtues , its best traditions flourish with the same spontaneity that we all wish for nuestras.Hay be able to distinguish who is the real enemy and not forget that the right to live is universal for individuals and peoples. I know that you know this, that you, like me, aspire to a better country, a country that can rub shoulders with the most advanced of the globe. And there 's another way to achieve the respect of all rights , which if violated in Santo Domingo today should not take to long ofuscarnos to be violated by us in different places.
I believe in you So I suffered. I believe in you until you ache failure Emilio Marrero showed the piece of paper that I wrote with the intention of benefit and non- disturbing or by action or omission to Emilio . In all I think, all I want and I have faith his clear judgment . So I have suffered this afternoon.
But the future is to one day see each other's arms, in the middle of a world free of oppressors and prejudice , a world fit Haitians and Dominicans , and in which all who have the duty to be better we will be fighting together against the misery and ignorance of all men on earth .
Drop me as brother and keep me for that .
Juan Bosch
Juan Bosch Letter Haitian about three great intellectuals of the time , in 1943.
Havana , June 14, 1943 .
My dear Demorizi Emilio Rodr?guez , H?ctor Ram?n Marrero Inch?ustegui and Aristy :
TOMORROW WILL YOU think, and before they return to the country I want to write a few lines that are perhaps the last to occur of the Dominican case as a Dominican . I'm not saying that one day return to the topic , but I will because so many mental and psychological distance from my native country as a man could do in Alaska.
First, thanks for the light company that have given me today , the man concerned grateful as trade ideas, because she never has occurred that indescribable thrill when voice , in tone, in the words of a friend who has ceased to be long memories will warn of a site where one was happy. Perhaps to my joy , I was never happy in the Dominican Republic , and as a human being and as a writer and as a citizen , but instead suffered greatly in all these conditions .
Today I also suffered ... and from my meeting with you I have taken a painful conclusion , and that is: the tragedy of my country has permeated far beyond where it was possible to conceive : The dictatorship has come to form an ideological basis that it seems Dominican naturally in the air and will cost greatly overcome, if they can ever overcome . I do not mean facts relating to a particular person , do not talk about that Dominicans feel more or less identified with Trujillo , defend or attack his regime, to maintain a particular idea about the limited success of the current political situation in Santo Domingo, no, my dear friends : I talk about a transformation of the national mentality that is actually incompatible with those principles of human society in which men and the people who believe with firm faith during times best in the world , by which the guides of mankind have suffered and died , suffered and sacrificed . I mean the mental and moral attitude of you - and therefore the best part of my people - in a case that touches us all : the Haitian .
Before proceeding I wish to remind you that there is a play of mine , scattered throughout our area , which has been written for the sole stimulus forged my love for the Dominican people . I mean my stories . Neither the desire to make money or to get them a reputation which allowed me one day win political or economic position or any bastard purpose gave rise to these stories . You are writers and they know that when you start typing , when you do like us , sincere, loyally carries no other purpose than to express a distressing and oppressive inner restlessness . So , there's my work to defend myself if someone says now or in the future I'm a bad Dominican . I speak , therefore, entitled to claim that I hear as the lesser evil of the sons of my land .
I have heard you speak , especially Emilio and Marrero , almost hatred towards Haitians , and I have wondered how it is possible to love one and despise the people outside , how is possible to love one's children while hates his neighbor's children as well, just because they are children of others. I think you have not thought about the right of a human being, whether Haitian or Chinese , to live with at least one being essential for life is not an unbearable burden , that you point Haitians considered less than animals , because pigs , cows , dogs do not deny you the right to live ...
But I also - and I am not mistaken - that you suffer a confusion , that you have left the trial they have been deflected by those in Haiti and the Dominican Republic both peoples used for their personal advantage . Because that's what happens , my friends. If I may have to explain : The Dominican people and the Haitian people have lived since the discovery until today - or since they formed to date - equally subject in general terms. In the case no matter Santo Domingo has a mass less poor and less ignorant . There is no fundamental difference between the state of misery and ignorance of a Haitian and a Dominican , if both are measured , not by what they have acquired goods and knowledge , but by what they lack to acquire still justly called , humans satisfied and proud of it . The Haitian people are a little poorer , and because of that circumstance , fighting hunger, which is more serious than you can imagine someone who has not suffered themselves, their children and their ancestors , seeks to circumvent controls Dominican and crosses the border , if the case were reversed, would the Dominican who illegally emigrate to Haiti . The Haitian is thus more to be pitied than the Dominican , in order of their misery deserves more to fight for it, we try to remove it from its status beast. None of you would be able to strike with the foot who came to his doors for shelter or bread : and if they do not like men , they can not do as citizens.
Now, and the status of both peoples is related , because both suffer , and also relate those in Santo Domingo as in Haiti exploit the people , accumulate millions , depriving others of the right to speak not to report their abuse , the right to organize politically , to not fight their privileges , the right to be worthy to throw on the floor no monuments of unworthiness . There is no fundamental difference between Dominicans and Haitians in the mass; There is no fundamental difference between Dominicans and Haitians of the ruling class .
But just as men of the people in both countries have a common interest - that of achieving their freedom to access all child welfare woman deserves and needs - in the ruling classes of Haiti and Santo Domingo there are clashes of interest, because both want for themselves the greatest wealth. The people are equally subject , the ruling classes are competitors . Trujillo and everything he represents as exploiting minority want the wealth of the island to another; Lescot and everything he represents as exploiting minority , too. Then one and another - each other , rather - use their respective peoples that they serve as shock troops : this troop him to struggle for the winner plus their increased power. Deceive both the people with the mirage of intransigent nationalism is not love to own land but the strange hatred , and especially craving the total power. And if the purest and the best among those being intellectuals, people who have learned to distinguish the truth in the mire of lies duped and end up falling for that lie, end up forgetting that the highest duty for more cults is to serve conscious or unconscious of an exploiting minority , predatory and unscrupulous , but in the service of the common man , is Haitian or Dominican Bolivia .
When Haitian diplomats here or there do work that you consider harmful to the Dominican Republic , you know what they are doing , even if they believe in good faith that they are proceeding as patriots ? As they are simply serving the interests of the minority that is now chaired by Lescot like yesterday it was about Vincent . And when intellectuals write - as it has done Marrero of Total motu proprio as he said, forgetting that there is no longer room for free will in the world - Haiti counter items are serving unconsciously - but serving - to those who exploit the people Dominican and treat him as an enemy militarily conquered . No, my friends ... Come out of your obfuscation . Our duty as Dominicans who are part of humanity is to defend the Haitian people from their exploiters , with equal ardor that his own Dominican people . Do not confuse with the Dominican Republic Trujillo or Lescot with Haiti. You yourselves say , when they say Lescot came to power aided by Trujillo and now fights it. Trujillo also brought to power Lescot and now attacks him. Is that both have conflicting interests , as opposed are those of each of their respective peoples and of mankind.
Our duty is now fighting for the freedom of our people and fight for the freedom of the Haitian people . When thereof and on this side of the border , the men have a house , books , medicines , clothes, food in abundance, when we are all Haitians and Dominicans , rich and educated and healthy , there will be conflicts between the children of Duarte and Toussaint , because neither these go looking , plagued by hunger, Dominican lands in what a miserable banana harvest necessary to their livelihood , and those eyes will have to return to a country of origin , language and culture different , unless to do so with the intention of increasing their knowledge of the land and the people who live it.
That feeling of manly indignation that encourages respect for Haiti now , volv?moslo against which enslaves and exploits the Dominicans , against which , with the pressure of his almost total power , change the feelings of all Dominicans , the best feelings our , forcing us to abandon the gift of friendship, the discretion, the proper assessment of everything that breathes in the world . And then summon in are Haitians brothers and let's help them be free also from their exploiters, they , like us, can build a prosperous country , educated , happy, in which his best virtues , its best traditions flourish with the same spontaneity that we all wish for nuestras.Hay be able to distinguish who is the real enemy and not forget that the right to live is universal for individuals and peoples. I know that you know this, that you, like me, aspire to a better country, a country that can rub shoulders with the most advanced of the globe. And there 's another way to achieve the respect of all rights , which if violated in Santo Domingo today should not take to long ofuscarnos to be violated by us in different places.
I believe in you So I suffered. I believe in you until you ache failure Emilio Marrero showed the piece of paper that I wrote with the intention of benefit and non- disturbing or by action or omission to Emilio . In all I think, all I want and I have faith his clear judgment . So I have suffered this afternoon.
But the future is to one day see each other's arms, in the middle of a world free of oppressors and prejudice , a world fit Haitians and Dominicans , and in which all who have the duty to be better we will be fighting together against the misery and ignorance of all men on earth .
Drop me as brother and keep me for that .
Juan Bosch
It only affects those whose both parents are foreigners.
However, the discussion is not if the DR has the right to decide about who to grant the citizenship. Of course the DR has that right. The problem is the retroactivity of the sentence, suddenly making illegal and stateless people who have been dominican for years. So yesterday you were dominican, with a dominican passport and citizenship, and today you are not dominican and you are a foreigner and even illegal in the only country you have lived your whole life. This is crazy.
There is another thread were they state those born to haitian parents are automatically granted the haitian citizenship, so they are not stateless. BUt what about the other countries?. AND then they say this whole thing is not about haitians...
I am puzzled at some at some of the responses here. so, someone has had the nationality of a country for almost a hundred years and then today, a court decides that he cannot be the citizen anymore because of his parents? No person with a BRAIN will make sense of this! lol
i mean, are we not living in a CIVILIZED WORLD? WOW
We still have people who still think in a PRIMITIVE WAY, the stone age! That is beyond, anyone's with a common sense!
Anyway, VERY BAD PR FOR DR
i mean, are we not living in a CIVILIZED WORLD? WOW
We still have people who still think in a PRIMITIVE WAY, the stone age! That is beyond, anyone's with a common sense!
Anyway, VERY BAD PR FOR DR
imho 'laws of another nation' are material in this thread, why?
the UN is directly involved in the issue
'other nations' have been involved directly in the issue, including the usa,
the issue is not happening in a vaccuum bubble just between 2 countries
so, those countries who have been getting involved, all countries members of the UN as a matter of fact, need to look themselves in a mirror
the closest piece of land next to DR, is a territory that belong to the USA,
near 4 million people are living there, despite the fact that for 100 years any child born there are legal citizen of the USA, they are not allowed to participate in the USA elections for president, senators etc
worst, if you were born, lets say in NYC, then you move to that particular piece of land you are not allowed anymore to vote in the USA elections, even if you did before while living in NYC
how good is a citizenship if you have no basic/elemental rights?
Last edited:
In this report tailed why Constitutional Court said are not Dominicans borns of Ilegals. Juliana: "Prefiero morir antes de que el TC me trate como extranjera" - Hoy Digital
That statement exist in Dominican Constitution from 1966 and the Lady was born after 1966 from Haitian parents.
http://bonoc.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/constitucion-dominicana-1966.pdf
TITULO III Derechos Pol?ticos.
SECCI?N I De la Nacionalidad.
Art?culo 11. Son dominicanos:
1. Todas las personas que nacieren en el territorio de la Rep?blica, con excepci?n
de los hijos leg?timos de los extranjeros residentes en el pa?s en representaci?n
diplom?tica o los que est?n de tr?nsito en ?l.
2. Las personas que al presente est?n investidas de esta calidad en virtud de
constituciones y leyes anteriores.
3. Todas las personas nacidas en el extranjero de padre o madre dominicanos,
siempre que, de acuerdo con las leyes del pa?s de su nacimiento, no hubieren
adquirido una nacionalidad extra?a, o que, en caso de haberla adquirido,
manifestaren, por acto ante un oficial p?blico remitido al Poder Ejecutivo, despu?s de alcanzar la edad de diez y ocho a?os, su voluntad de optar por la
nacionalidad dominicana
That statement exist in Dominican Constitution from 1966 and the Lady was born after 1966 from Haitian parents.
http://bonoc.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/constitucion-dominicana-1966.pdf
TITULO III Derechos Pol?ticos.
SECCI?N I De la Nacionalidad.
Art?culo 11. Son dominicanos:
1. Todas las personas que nacieren en el territorio de la Rep?blica, con excepci?n
de los hijos leg?timos de los extranjeros residentes en el pa?s en representaci?n
diplom?tica o los que est?n de tr?nsito en ?l.
2. Las personas que al presente est?n investidas de esta calidad en virtud de
constituciones y leyes anteriores.
3. Todas las personas nacidas en el extranjero de padre o madre dominicanos,
siempre que, de acuerdo con las leyes del pa?s de su nacimiento, no hubieren
adquirido una nacionalidad extra?a, o que, en caso de haberla adquirido,
manifestaren, por acto ante un oficial p?blico remitido al Poder Ejecutivo, despu?s de alcanzar la edad de diez y ocho a?os, su voluntad de optar por la
nacionalidad dominicana